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SAVINGRACE
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:clapping::clapping::yup::yup:
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Convert1
Guest
Isn’t this a mute point? There are several facets of war in the middle east and in America that has already permeated both. Their problems are now our problems, whether we choose to admit it or not. I fear common sense has been abandoned long before now.
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Good_Tidings
Guest
Maybe Think Progress in on to something:
Monday was supposed to be all about Ted Cruz.
In the afternoon, the respected polling institute at Monmouth University released a poll that, for the first time, showed the Texas Senator winning the Iowa caucuses. His 24 percent support rate in the politically important state marked a “clear lead” over historic frontrunner Donald Trump, the university said. It was pretty big news.
But Donald Trump eventually became bigger news. Hours after the Monmouth poll was released, the billionaire released a statement to press demanding “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.” Trump said the ban would apply to refugees, tourists, and even American citizens who happened to be traveling abroad. It was objectively the most Islamophobic of all his Islamophobic statements, the most aggressively divisive proposal in a campaign defined by aggressive divisiveness.
So, perhaps predictably, the news cycle that would have been about Cruz’s new lead in Iowa was abandoned, and replaced with one about Trump’s newest offense — one that would probably result in a boost for his poll numbers, as all of of his controversial proposals seem to do.
thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/12/07/3729384/donald-trump-muslim-ban-ted-cruz-poll/
Monday was supposed to be all about Ted Cruz.
In the afternoon, the respected polling institute at Monmouth University released a poll that, for the first time, showed the Texas Senator winning the Iowa caucuses. His 24 percent support rate in the politically important state marked a “clear lead” over historic frontrunner Donald Trump, the university said. It was pretty big news.
But Donald Trump eventually became bigger news. Hours after the Monmouth poll was released, the billionaire released a statement to press demanding “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.” Trump said the ban would apply to refugees, tourists, and even American citizens who happened to be traveling abroad. It was objectively the most Islamophobic of all his Islamophobic statements, the most aggressively divisive proposal in a campaign defined by aggressive divisiveness.
So, perhaps predictably, the news cycle that would have been about Cruz’s new lead in Iowa was abandoned, and replaced with one about Trump’s newest offense — one that would probably result in a boost for his poll numbers, as all of of his controversial proposals seem to do.
thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/12/07/3729384/donald-trump-muslim-ban-ted-cruz-poll/
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SAVINGRACE
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Donald Trump is not Political Leader material. He divides and panders to the lowest common denominator.
To the cheers of thousands, Donald Trump has called for committing war crimes against women and children, for banning Muslims (including U.S. citizens) from entering the U.S., for shutting down mosques, and for tracking religious minorities with a database and possible ID badges. (In addition, he shared false information from a white supremacist Web site to spread lies about African Americans and crime, and has called for the deportation of millions of immigrants.)
A Christian college president urge his students to take up arms and “end those Muslims before they get to the U.S.” Across the country, Muslims report that their mosques are being vandalized, that they are receiving death threats by the hour, and that women in head coverings are being harassed when they go out in public. Needy families fleeing terrorism in their own countries, who have spent years being vetted to receive refugee status and a safe home, are arriving to the U.S. only to be turned away by state governors.
The hysteria and xenophobia has gotten completely out of control, and it runs totally contrary to your country’s commitment to religious freedom and especially to the teachings of Jesus. If a pastor, family member, friend, or acquaintance expresses support for violent rhetoric against minorities, speak up. Call it out. It’s not okay.
Would you have protested the anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust? This is exactly how it begins. Now’s the time to speak up and to act.
During WWII the U.S. refused to accept fleeing Jews on ships and sent them back to warzone Europe to endure torture, starvation, rape, brutality, experimentation that is the holocaust. All due to strong anti-semitism sentiment.
To the cheers of thousands, Donald Trump has called for committing war crimes against women and children, for banning Muslims (including U.S. citizens) from entering the U.S., for shutting down mosques, and for tracking religious minorities with a database and possible ID badges. (In addition, he shared false information from a white supremacist Web site to spread lies about African Americans and crime, and has called for the deportation of millions of immigrants.)
A Christian college president urge his students to take up arms and “end those Muslims before they get to the U.S.” Across the country, Muslims report that their mosques are being vandalized, that they are receiving death threats by the hour, and that women in head coverings are being harassed when they go out in public. Needy families fleeing terrorism in their own countries, who have spent years being vetted to receive refugee status and a safe home, are arriving to the U.S. only to be turned away by state governors.
The hysteria and xenophobia has gotten completely out of control, and it runs totally contrary to your country’s commitment to religious freedom and especially to the teachings of Jesus. If a pastor, family member, friend, or acquaintance expresses support for violent rhetoric against minorities, speak up. Call it out. It’s not okay.
Would you have protested the anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust? This is exactly how it begins. Now’s the time to speak up and to act.
During WWII the U.S. refused to accept fleeing Jews on ships and sent them back to warzone Europe to endure torture, starvation, rape, brutality, experimentation that is the holocaust. All due to strong anti-semitism sentiment.
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GEddie
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Your poll should have had a third option for not sure yet.
I’m all for rescuing those in danger, but it doesn’t extend to bringing the danger to home territory.
Maybe we should rent a British base in Cyprus to properly screen persons from the war zone prior to flying them into NA.
ICXC NIKA
I’m all for rescuing those in danger, but it doesn’t extend to bringing the danger to home territory.
Maybe we should rent a British base in Cyprus to properly screen persons from the war zone prior to flying them into NA.
ICXC NIKA
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Vanny
Guest
I don’t agree with what Donald Trump said, but there is a big difference between those Jewish Refugees back then, who should have been let in IMO, and accepting refugees whom the Homeland Security has said may well be embedded with ISIS terrorists and the FBI has said we have no way of vetting them or know who they are. Sure 99% of them are probably good people, but if even 1% of them are terrorists…
The weakness the last 7 years of this administration on this issue is the very reason why Trump is gaining currency now. he wouldn’t even be popular in my opinion if we had a stronger America.
There was no danger that Nazi sympathizers would be embedded in the Jewish refugee population, or that these Jewish refugees would become radicalized and fly planes into buildings or shoot up a holiday party.
And speaking of anti-Semitism, where is this administration when someone from the New York Daily news intimated that one of the victims deserved what he got, A Messianic Jew who “argued” with his co-worker about radical Islam?
It’s HIS fault for the shoot out, so there were 13 innocents and 1 deserving victim according to this Stassi of the NY daily News.
Where is the Obama administration on that one?
meltzerboy
New member
Trump is not the most nuanced or deeply thoughtful politician.
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GEddie
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And that is his strength, as a growing roil of citizens are sick and tired of nonending “nuance” while the world around them flops in slow motion.
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powerofk
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And if it’s Trump vs. Hillary, I’m seriously prepping for the apocalypse and voting 3rd party (NM only has write-in spaces if there’s a declared write-in candidate).
My first choice would be Rubio, then Christie. Carson, Kasich and Bush I’d vote for, though unenthusiastically, and Cruz I’d hold my nose to vote for him, then take a cold shower. But I’d vote for Bernie Sanders before Trump. Simply put, Trump scares me. His speeches scare me to the bone, and they remind me of other former world leaders that won by whipping their supporters into a frenzy over supposed “boogeymen”. And I don’t trust Hillary at all.
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Good_Tidings
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I watched parts of his speech last night. The crowd was standing up, calling out his name in unison, raising their fists above their heads. It was eerily reminiscent of another historical figure. Quite honestly, it was scary.
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Murmurs
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I might not trust Hillary either but I have reasonable confidence at least that she wouldn’t march the US into WW3 in a fit of self-indulgent bravado.
The problem is that you successfully can’t see the world in the black and white terms Trump (and some other candidates, on both sides), like. It IS nuanced. The problem is the current administration never gets beyond the nuanced thinking to actually doing very much (or even looking like it’s doing very much). I am very nervous of Trump’s message which is kind of a “action for action’s sake” approach; this is at least as dangerous as paralysing thinking too too.
I forget where I read it (might have been NYT?), but someone recently described Trump as a fascist. Not necessarily meaning it in a Nazi-like pejorative way, but his combination of populism, nationalism, intolerance of analytical nuanced thinking about problems, and celebrating a kind of violent masculinity, rather fits a standard description of it. I wouldn’t for a moment suggest Trump is anything like as ‘evil’ as the historical figure you were thinking of, Good Tidings, but he does at least seem to operate in a slightly similar way (albeit thankfully without the brownshirts).
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GEddie
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Of course nuance exists in the world (some nations see too much of it, while ours normally sees too little). I’m not saying that DT has what it takes to be a successful world leader. I am saying that he may well have what it takes to be a successful post-Obamian presidential candidate.
ICXC NIKA.
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Good_Tidings
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I posted a list of fascist characteristics in a previous thread. The similarities to this campaign are truly alarming. People all over the world think Trump speaks for Americans. I don’t see how he speaks for any thoughtful American. From listening to pundits ( Conservative) this morning, he may have finally met his Waterloo. One can hope.
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Robert_Bay
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Warning
Please don’t call any US politician a fascist. It is uncharitable and you can be cited for it.
Please don’t call any US politician a fascist. It is uncharitable and you can be cited for it.
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Murmurs
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Ah, well, I absolutely agree with you there! (For better or worse, he’s certainly not doing badly anyway!).
Sorry for misreading you!
We hope indeed.
The article I was thinking about was in Slate, rather than NYT:
slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/donald_trump_is_a_fascist_it_is_the_political_label_that_best_describes.html
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gilliam
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Trump rejects criticism of proposal to ban Muslims from US, says plan ‘no different’ than President Roosevelt’s: apne.ws/1TXAWV5
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SAVINGRACE
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He will probably get elected based on those characteristics alone. George W did.
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Seamus_L
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Being accused of having fascist and extreme right wing views quite often means that you merely think the way most Americans did 60 or more years ago. Since it’s the radical leftists who move the yardsticks that determine how beliefs are interpreted, in another decade or so, those called moderate right wingers and centrists may well be labeled fascists.
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gilliam
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A little more of what Trump said in his own defense:
Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump double-downed today on his proposal to temporarily bar all Muslims from entering the United States.
“Something has to be done,” Trump told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos during an interview on “Good Morning America.” “What I’m doing is calling very simply for Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”
Trump’s plan would block all Muslims from entering the United States, with an exception for U.S. citizens who are Muslim, who would come and go as they wish. He hopes the ban “will go quickly,” as soon as “our leaders figure out what the hell is going on,” Trump said.
“If a person is a Muslim, goes overseas and comes back, they can come back. They’re a citizen. That’s different,” Trump said. “But we have to figure things out.”
He said his plan has been met with praise despite his opponents’ coming out overnight slamming it.
The plan has been compared to Japanese internment camps used by President Franklin Roosevelt during World War II, but Trump says he has no interest in internment camps. "This is a president highly respected by all, he did the same thing,” Trump said. “If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. I mean, he was talking about the Germans because we’re at war.
“We are now at war,” Trump added. "We have a president that doesn’t want to say that, but we are now at war.”
abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-stands-barring-muslims-criticism/story?id=35640361
Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump double-downed today on his proposal to temporarily bar all Muslims from entering the United States.
“Something has to be done,” Trump told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos during an interview on “Good Morning America.” “What I’m doing is calling very simply for Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”
Trump’s plan would block all Muslims from entering the United States, with an exception for U.S. citizens who are Muslim, who would come and go as they wish. He hopes the ban “will go quickly,” as soon as “our leaders figure out what the hell is going on,” Trump said.
“If a person is a Muslim, goes overseas and comes back, they can come back. They’re a citizen. That’s different,” Trump said. “But we have to figure things out.”
He said his plan has been met with praise despite his opponents’ coming out overnight slamming it.
The plan has been compared to Japanese internment camps used by President Franklin Roosevelt during World War II, but Trump says he has no interest in internment camps. "This is a president highly respected by all, he did the same thing,” Trump said. “If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. I mean, he was talking about the Germans because we’re at war.
“We are now at war,” Trump added. "We have a president that doesn’t want to say that, but we are now at war.”
abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-stands-barring-muslims-criticism/story?id=35640361
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Murmurs
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Apologies for my part in that.
(I might say that it’s the association with certain European leaders of the 1920s-40s that make it uncharitable, not the label itself…no one is saying the candidate is like Hitler or Mussolini; it’s a conceptual parallel between them).
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