Donald Trump Calls for Barring Muslims From Entering U.S

[randomuser]

Can a Muslim falsely identify him/herself as a Christian ?

I believe to do so would be apostasy in Islam, even when lying

Uh, yes, with all due respect, a Muslim terrorist can lie and falsely identify himself or herself as a Christian to gain entry into the U.S. - thereby making frivolous and unenforceable any such policy to “bar Muslims from entering the U.S.” You’re saying a Muslim terrorist determined to kill as many Americans as possible will conveniently grow a conscience at the border? Really?

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

Uh, yes, with all due respect, a Muslim terrorist can lie and falsely identify himself or herself as a Christian to gain entry into the U.S. - thereby making frivolous and unenforceable any such policy to “bar Muslims from entering the U.S.” You’re saying a Muslim terrorist determined to kill as many Americans as possible will conveniently grow a conscience at the border? Really?

True of all bad actors…in fact most human beings…

 

[St_Francis]

Understood.
Donald Trump Calls for Banning Muslim Immigrants

That would mean that the ban would remain in effect indefinitely so long as someone had reservations about them.

The first reform I would like to see is thay those interpreters and translators who helped US troops in Adghanistan and Iraq are brought here before anyone else is allowed in at all. This has been a *shameful *episode in our nation’s history.

Next, bring back the US Army dogs–while not as shameful, still heartless. And change the rules regarding military dogs so they are automatically returned to the US with their handler or other responsible person.

CBS reports on Tashfeen Malik’s vetting process.

First, out of 35,000 applications, only 600-odd were rejected. The process consists of an interview, a questionaire, and a criminal background check.

We now find that does not suffice.

From the article: "…White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the program will likely be changed.
"‘Somebody entered the United States through the K-1 visa program and proceeded to carry out an act of terrorism on American soil,’ said Earenst [sic]. “‘That program is at a minimum worth a very close look.’”

From The New York Times:

Tashfeen Malik, who with her husband carried out the massacre in San Bernardino, Calif., passed three background checks by American immigration officials as she moved to the United States from Pakistan. None uncovered what Ms. Malik had made little effort to hide — that she talked openly on social media about her views on violent jihad.

She said she supported it. And she said she wanted to be a part of it.

So now Trump says he thinks we should have a moratorium on allowing Moslems in until we have a better way of vetting them. Let’s start by entering the 21st Century and checking social media sources.

Let’s also consider the reality that those who are radicalized generally have some similarities of background, like going to certain types of mosques, visiting certain areas of certain nations, etc.

If I can come up with ideas, I am sure that people who actually have knowledge and experience in this area would be able to come up with better ideas than mine.

 

[GaryTaylor]

So we don’t know who these people are? Yes indeed a valid point. What should we do about it?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Rollin’Stoned]

Ambiguous language is part of the rhetoric in political campaigns.

Can anyone understand how Hillary would get her ideas through congress and how she’d pay for them ?

A candidate says, “I’m for creating jobs.” Well, which candidate is against creating jobs ?

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Uh, yes, with all due respect, a Muslim terrorist can lie and falsely identify himself or herself as a Christian to gain entry into the U.S. - thereby making frivolous and unenforceable any such policy to “bar Muslims from entering the U.S.” You’re saying a Muslim terrorist determined to kill as many Americans as possible will conveniently grow a conscience at the border? Really?

Not what I’m saying.

I asked the question.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Vetting for terrorists is going to be very difficult if not impossible.

I just read that ISIS had taken a large number of Syrian passports in a raid.

Those passports will be used to get their people into the West and USA.

Jim

 

[Path_Finder]

It seems some media are saying the female shooter at San Bernadino passed 3 background checks though her online postings indicated support for violence.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Regardless of Democratic or Republican as they all have said much but the glaring facts of the FBI in contrast has been clear and echos the same response of the majority and military and intelligence personal. They are not the enemy as Joe Biden stated, they are assimilated Americans.

So if we can’t identify a christian, muslim or a terrorist why are we letting these unidentified peoples in with questionable backgrounds when they are seeking freedom and safety which we are protecting?

 

[Brendan_64]

Can a Muslim falsely identify him/herself as a Christian ?

I believe to do so would be apostasy in Islam, even when lying

Jim

There is the Muslim doctrine of Taqiyyah, which is a doctrine that allows lying about your beliefs in order to deceive the enemy to gain an advantage and further the aims of their cause.

 

[DeusExMachina]

There is the Muslim doctrine of Taqiyyah, which is a doctrine that allows lying about your beliefs in order to deceive the enemy to gain an advantage and further the aims of their cause.

only the shia practice Taqiyya, and as about 99% of all jihadists are sunni, I fail to see how this could be a problem

 

[Thomas_White]

Uh, yes, with all due respect, a Muslim terrorist can lie and falsely identify himself or herself as a Christian to gain entry into the U.S. - thereby making frivolous and unenforceable any such policy to “bar Muslims from entering the U.S.” You’re saying a Muslim terrorist determined to kill as many Americans as possible will conveniently grow a conscience at the border? Really?

I agree. I think the extreme, militant ideology of ISIS is no longer religion. This group has rationalized the mass killing of innocent people, including fellow Muslims, and I do not believe members of the group would hesitate to lie to gain entrance to the U.S. with the specific intent to blow themselves up so as to kill yet more innocent people. This is no longer religion but a fanatical distortion of it.

 

[JimmyG88]

I agree with Trump that we should close the borders to Mohammedans. It is to protect the country from people that pose a legitimate threat. We shouldn’t wait until they are bombing every day to start closing the borders.

Nearly every part of this post displays a breathtaking lack of insight. I suppose it was especially worded in order to insult

 

[grotto]

Its a wise position to take. “Little pigs, little pigs, let me come in!” No, no. no, not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin will we let you in". Lets not be stupid again… Dangerous people with intent to kill as many of us as they can are asking, plotting, frauding documents, sneaking across checkpoints, and pretending to be refugees in flight for their lives. The Islamic terrorists have been so “in your face” doing all of these acts. Perhaps when the zombies are destroyed, the “peaceful Muslims” have exposed the terrorists and declared them to be non-Muslim, and sanity reigns among the people, maybe then invitations will be extended.

There is nothing written in our Consitution that says we have to allow murderous killers to come among us, or we are bigots and “not being who, or what we are about”. That has to be the dumbest, most misleading abuse of charity to fling on our American people. The self inflated, self important journalist, mainstream media, tv and Hollywood, political empty heads will be part of the poparazzi that asks following the next Islamic terrorist attack: “how do you feel, did you see them get shot, were you shot, was it a bomb, were you near those who were killed, etc.” Who profits from these horrific events?

Trump is smart and plain spoken - let’s stop them at the gate!

 

[pnewton]

Just like those who don’t mind illegal aliens killings Americans, they are somewhat accessories to the murders they commit.

Who has ever said they do not mind illegal aliens killing Americans? This is patently absurd, off-topic, **and **another straw man. There is nothing notable about being anti-homicide.

 

[pnewton]

It’s the same thing, the Muslims can’t be fully vetted. That is what Trump has said, until they can be fully checked, there should be a moratorium on Muslims until we know what’s going on.

Of course, those peddling hate against Trump again, don’t know what he said.

The error in this argument is the word “fully”. Since nothing can be known 100%, such a moratorium would have to be permanent.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Its a wise position to take. “Little pigs, little pigs, let me come in!” No, no. no, not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin will we let you in". Lets not be stupid again… Dangerous people with intent to kill as many of us as they can are asking, plotting, frauding documents, sneaking across checkpoints, and pretending to be refugees in flight for their lives. The Islamic terrorists have been so “in your face” doing all of these acts. Perhaps when the zombies are destroyed, the “peaceful Muslims” have exposed the terrorists and declared them to be non-Muslim, and sanity reigns among the people, maybe then invitations will be extended.

There is nothing written in our Consitution that says we have to allow murderous killers to come among us, or we are bigots and “not being who, or what we are about”. That has to be the dumbest, most misleading abuse of charity to fling on our American people. The self inflated, self important journalist, mainstream media, tv and Hollywood, political empty heads will be part of the poparazzi that asks following the next Islamic terrorist attack: “how do you feel, did you see them get shot, were you shot, was it a bomb, were you near those who were killed, etc.” Who profits from these horrific events?

Trump is smart and plain spoken - let’s stop them at the gate!

You sir, are a bigot

 

[Darryl1958]

The error in this argument is the word “fully”. Since nothing can be known 100%, such a moratorium would have to be permanent.

The better word might be adequately vetted then. It is also useful to ascertain exactly what people entering into our countries are being vetted for.
There is much more involved than propensity to violence.
What is wanted is future immigrants who are fully invested into the values of America and the West, people like Hirsi Ali, for example.
And no, I am not referring to her atheism. I am referring to her admiration of the rich philosophical and cultural traditions that have made the West into the pluralistic, civil societies that exist today, based in tolerance and individual freedoms, humanistic considerations centred on the well-being and autonomy of the individual in a society

The problem with the vetting process is that we have people on our end like the Swedish bureaucrat who has recently been on record as stating that their is no such thing as Swedish culture and Swedish values in the first place.
How can anybody possible be vetted as being an asset to the values of the prospective host country if the vetting process in that host country does not even recognize a stand of what the values are that they are vetting for?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Right the wording is an issue for sure and we certainly are not attempting to hang on every word of Trump but view the validity of his national security point.

“In the wake the Paris terrorist attacks, it’s important that Congress work together in a meaningful way to ensure that those who would do us harm on our own soil are unable to do so,” said Flake. “Passing this bipartisan bill to strengthen the highly-beneficial visa waiver program so that it cannot be exploited by individuals who may have ties to terrorism in Iraq and Syria will be an effective start.”

“The Paris terror attacks were committed by French and Belgian nationals, which means it would have been possible for them to board a plane to this country using the Visa Waiver Program. As growing numbers of foreign nationals travel to the Middle East to train and fight, and with 45 million lost and stolen passports on the black market, we must do all we can to secure the program,” said Feinstein. “Strengthening the program will require collecting additional information from travelers before they arrive and require participating countries to share valuable information and intelligence with us. Gaps in the security of the Visa Waiver Program must be addressed as soon as possible.”

flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=78b0bdf0-fd14-4f9e-89d4-0a68e95c2938

I think he has a point, how to effectively handle it is really the question.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Its a wise position to take. “Little pigs, little pigs, let me come in!” No, no. no, not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin will we let you in". Lets not be stupid again… Dangerous people with intent to kill as many of us as they can are asking, plotting, frauding documents, sneaking across checkpoints, and pretending to be refugees in flight for their lives. The Islamic terrorists have been so “in your face” doing all of these acts. Perhaps when the zombies are destroyed, the “peaceful Muslims” have exposed the terrorists and declared them to be non-Muslim, and sanity reigns among the people, maybe then invitations will be extended.

There is nothing written in our Consitution that says we have to allow murderous killers to come among us, or we are bigots and “not being who, or what we are about”. That has to be the dumbest, most misleading abuse of charity to fling on our American people. The self inflated, self important journalist, mainstream media, tv and Hollywood, political empty heads will be part of the poparazzi that asks following the next Islamic terrorist attack: “how do you feel, did you see them get shot, were you shot, was it a bomb, were you near those who were killed, etc.” Who profits from these horrific events?

Trump is smart and plain spoken - let’s stop them at the gate!

Wow.