Donald Trump Presidential Campaign Thread

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She cornered Trump. All he did was tweet and then gave a temper tantrum speech last night.
She gave a clear speech but all rhetoric and an obvious attack and as you might say a temper tantrum. It doesn’t require much in return as the truth is Bernies people show just how little integrity and honesty Hillary has in relation to the questions she posed as to being President. No one trusts Hillary. This is the type of situation thats going to be on-going but until they are directly debating then its sort of just feeds a specific narrative.

What policy did she discuss? None the entire talk was an attack, but she has to account for her own actions under direct confrontation and pleading the fifth isn’t a response as President. So the loose canon dangerous rhetoric is a factual reality with her in Libya, Russia, Yemen. Her speech was suppose to be on foreign policy and what did she say? Oh nothing at all?
 
This is not just ridiculous, it’s flat-out bigoted.

Judge Curiel is an American-born citizen of the United States. There’s no reason in *** why he should recuse himself any more than the child of, say, Irish immigrants should recuse himself from a case involving someone who has strong opinions about immigration, legal or illegal.

It is a false equivalence to say (as I see hardline conservatives do all too often) that organizations that espouse “white pride” or the like are somehow the same as organizations like the NAACP (or the organization of which Judge Curiel is or was a member. It’s nonsense.

Donald Trump delivered an outright racist rant against this judge, who has a distinguished record of prosecuting people without regard to common ethnicity. Anyone who agrees with him is of the same stripe.
Not that any one of us knows any of those asserted facts to be true or false, either way.

But in any event, obviously some did not understand what I was saying. I’ll say it again without any particular reason to believe it will be understood this time.

The question is not the subjective state of mind of the judge. The question is whether he had good reason to recuse himself. In my opinion, he did, and the very flap about it proves I was right about it. I know judges who have recused themselves with less reason. This judge is a member of a race-based lawyers’ association and a member of a committee that raises scholarships for illegal immigrants. Could Judge Curiel not see that presiding over a case in which a party very publicly stood for an opposite proposition would raise eyebrows at very least? And then to release to the public the “evidence” of the opposing parties during an election; evidence that has not been weighed in trial for credibility but which will inevitably be used against that party politically, this Judge couldn’t see that could be interpreted as a political act on his part? He didn’t have to take the case. Nothing requires him to do it.

Whether one thinks it’s just fine to be a member of an organization that advertises its racial exclusivity as long as it isn’t “white” or not, it doesn’t look good to many. We have gone through decades of exhortation that any kind of race-based exclusivity is ethically and morally wrong. The above post demonstrates that amply. I am being accused of racism even though my very point was a critique of racism and the divisions and suspicions it engenders, and that it’s not proper judicial conduct to do anything that even creates the appearance of exacerbating it.

But it seems it’s part of our twisted political correctness nowadays that some racial exclusivities are bad, but some are admirable. Depends on the race one is talking about, which is racism in itself.

And Trump didn’t deliver a “racist rant”. He mentioned the Judge’s ethnicity, which his membership in La Raza does without Trump, and which the Judge’s very name discloses.
But it does show what a mistake this judge made in staying in the case. Judges don’t have to hear particular cases if they don’t want to. Why did this judge stay in the case knowing as he surely did that there is a major, and very public political aspect to it? To prove to everyone that he could rise above it? That’s vanity, and not what recusal is all about. Judges are supposed to recuse when their staying in a case could cause the slightest doubt about their objectivity. It doesn’t have to be actual. A potentially tainted appearance is enough, and they’re taught to avoid it.

But I do understand the point of the above post. If one points out that the “politically approved” kind of racial exclusivity is racism, one is labeled a racist. What a poor pass this country has come to!
 
There are facts and then there is wishful thinking! This judge should recuse himself due to the facts surrounding this matter. No insult towards anyone, just the best judicial action.
 
Regarding Judge Curiel, If trump actually felt that the Judge was not capable of being impartial, there are procedures to address that.

research.lawyers.com/well-recuse-me-when-a-judge-shouldnt-try-a-case.html

Trump thinks this judge cannot be impartial because he’s the son of Mexican immigrants, even though the case has nothing to do with immigration or with Mexico. The case has to do with fraud.
Judges are also supposed to recuse themselves if they perceive a wrong impression might be created by their staying in a case. And we don’t know whether Trump’s lawyers asked Judge Curiel to recuse, either. We do know they asked Judge Curiel to allow Plaintiffs’ deposition testimony to remain out of the public domain before trial. Judges grant those routinely, but Judge Curiel didn’t.

I don’t know how one could know what 'Trump thinks", particularly when he did not say what you assert.

And judges are not only supposed to recuse if they have some kind of direct interest in the outcome of a case. They are supposed to do it when there is even a mild possibility that there could be a perception of bias. Trump is very public in being against illegal immigration. Judge Curiel is very openly pro illegal immigrants, if not immigration itself. And then to open up the plaintiffs’ untested allegations to public view in a political season when he knows it will be used politically against a party in a case he’s hearing? Truly, I don’t know a single judge who would ever think it proper to do something like that.

Does that act prove Judge Curiel’s bias against Trump? Not directly, but it’s hard to know what more he could have done to make it seem so.
 
Ridge you starting to be sound like Sean Hannity, scared as can be.
Luckily Gerardo Rivera cornered him but Sean is so stubborn, he kept going in circles don’t be like that. He had 3 points that he argued which your sorta of making. Let’s go through them.
  1. the club/organization the the judge is, belongs to, is not the same which some here, I believe it was you who posted it, La Raza, the organization that wants the southwest back in Mexico. He belongs to another La Raza, which is a Hispanic Union. Sorta of like with me as a firefighter , we have minority unions here in Texas in the fire dept, and it doesn’t mean we’re fascist.
  2. right wing people including trump are complaining that the judge is biased bc he was put there by Obama. Ummm, let me throw some breaking news to you guys. A lot of judges, have been appointed by Obama bc as president that’s what he does as president.
  3. people complain about the judge being a Clinton supporter. So, the right wing people don’t believe in the justice system. This judge from what I have read, has a good track record.
I’m guessing republicans can find someone guilty like they did with HRC, but when things are switched is a witch hunt.
Judge Curiel actually belongs to the San Diego La Raza Lawyer’s Association; a lawyer’s association that, among other things, raises scholarships for illegal aliens, and is for Hispanic lawyers only. Put the shoe on the other foot. What if some judge hearing some NAACP case belonged to a “White Lawyer’s Association” that raises money to send illegal aliens back home. Would your defense of that judge be as vigorous if the judge refused to recuse himself? Please pardon my doubting it.

I didn’t make Point #2, but now that you mention it, it’s something that would otherwise be of no importance, but does add at least a trifle to the reasons why this judge didn’t do what most judges would do and wouldn’t do what most judges would do.

I didn’t make Point #3 either. So he’s a Clinton supporter? Didn’t know it. But now that you mention it, perhaps that’s why he allowed disclosure of the untested allegations of the plaintiffs to the public during an election season. But even if that wasn’t his motivation, didn’t he have enough insight to realize it could easily be taken that way, and probably will be, more and more, as time goes on in this? Judges are supposed to protect litigants from publicity in order to ensure objective jurors, if nothing else. Remember all of the big time trials in which it has been so questioned whether a defendant could get a fair trial due to adverse publicity that would infect jurors? Trump’s lawyers asked the judge not to allow public disclosure of all of the untested allegations, but Judge Curiel did it anyway. What was he thinking? And why do we think that was a proper thing for a judge to do, knowing full well he would be poisoning vast numbers of a potential jury pool?

Odd, too, if Judge Curiel is an overt Clinton supporter. Judges in my state are not supposed to engage in political contests at all, other than their own. Maybe it’s okay in California for judges to be open political advocates. If so, they ought to rethink it.

And what makes you think I’m whatever you think “right wing” is? I’m probably to the left of you in some ways. Certainly when it comes to approval of racially exclusive groups, I’m far more of what “liberal” ought to be but oftentimes isn’t.
 
Wall Street Journal:
Donald Trump on Thursday escalated his attacks on the federal judge presiding over civil fraud lawsuits against Trump University, amid criticism from legal observers who say the presumptive GOP presidential nominee’s comments are an unusual affront on an independent judiciary.
In an interview, Mr. Trump said U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had “an absolute conflict” in presiding over the litigation given that he was “of Mexican heritage” and a member of a Latino lawyers’ association. Mr. Trump said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants, was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the southern U.S. border. “I’m building a wall. It’s an inherent conflict of interest,” Mr. Trump said.
wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-keeps-up-attacks-on-judge-gonzalo-curiel-1464911442

I’m not even going to comment. These are things Trump is actually saying.

Judge Curiel’s ethnicity, according to Trump, is the conflict of interest.
 
The question is not the subjective state of mind of the judge. The question is whether he had good reason to recuse himself. In my opinion, he did, and the very flap about it proves I was right about it. I know judges who have recused themselves with less reason. This judge is a member of a race-based lawyers’ association and a member of a committee that raises scholarships for illegal immigrants. Could Judge Curiel not see that presiding over a case in which a party very publicly stood for an opposite proposition would raise eyebrows at very least?
That is a very tenuous connection. What should matter is the subject of the case and the parties in the case, which in this case was a class action lawsuit against Trump University for fraud. The plaintiffs were not especially Hispanic or immigrants. The defendant was not Hispanic or immigrant. The case was not about the defendant’s position toward Hispanics or immigrants. In short, there is nothing at all in the case that has anything to do with Hispanic ethnicity or immigration. It is unreasonable to expect that a judge who happens to have an interest in fairness toward a minority should have to recuse himself from every case where one of the parties happens to have made statements about those minorities, especially when the case itself has nothing to do with those issues.
 
Wall Street Journal:

wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-keeps-up-attacks-on-judge-gonzalo-curiel-1464911442

I’m not even going to comment. These are things Trump is actually saying.

Judge Curiel’s ethnicity, according to Trump, is the conflict of interest.
He actually mentioned three things, one of which is belonging to La Raza Lawyer’s Association, in an election year in which illegal immigration is a big issue, and when the Judge is a member of a committee raising scholarships for illegal immigrants to go to college when, of course, they shouldn’t even be here according to many.

None of us know the basis of Trump’s Motion for Summary Judgment or why the judge ruled against it. But the “allegation dump” in a political contest strikes me as a likely political act when it’s uncommon for judges to do it. Why is it uncommon? Because it is, in effect, the court repeating what might simply be false allegations, but also because it can reduce the potential jury pool. Since it will be grist for Hillary Clinton’s political mill, there will be few who have not heard them before the trial.

Poor judgment on the judge’s part or political action? Hard to know.
 
Even when that perception of bias was exclusively created by the defendant?
No. Trump only complained about something the Judge should have seen and recused himself for. The “evidence dump” adds credibility to it. What was Trump to do? Nothing, when he knows the judge handed politically useful materials to the Clinton campaign, never mind that it potentially poisons the jury pool? He reacted to a very questionable circumstance.
 
He actually mentioned three things, one of which is belonging to La Raza Lawyer’s Association, in an election year in which illegal immigration is a big issue, and when the Judge is a member of a committee raising scholarships for illegal immigrants to go to college when, of course, they shouldn’t even be here according to many.

None of us know the basis of Trump’s Motion for Summary Judgment or why the judge ruled against it. But the “allegation dump” in a political contest strikes me as a likely political act when it’s uncommon for judges to do it. Why is it uncommon? Because it is, in effect, the court repeating what might simply be false allegations, but also because it can reduce the potential jury pool. Since it will be grist for Hillary Clinton’s political mill, there will be few who have not heard them before the trial.

Poor judgment on the judge’s part or political action? Hard to know.
If he were Judge Corelli would it matter if he were in the Italian -American Bar Association?

How about if he were Judge McCoral, would it matter if he were in an Irish-American Bar Association? (there are about 75,000 undocumented Irish immigrants in New York and Boston)

It is a Bar Association that Judge Curiel is in.

Why doesn’t Trump go through the procedure to remove the judge from the case?

Why does the Judge need to prove himself impartial? Hasn’t he been successfully vetted to be a Federal Judge?
 
That is a very tenuous connection. What should matter is the subject of the case and the parties in the case, which in this case was a class action lawsuit against Trump University for fraud. The plaintiffs were not especially Hispanic or immigrants. The defendant was not Hispanic or immigrant. The case was not about the defendant’s position toward Hispanics or immigrants. In short, there is nothing at all in the case that has anything to do with Hispanic ethnicity or immigration. It is unreasonable to expect that a judge who happens to have an interest in fairness toward a minority should have to recuse himself from every case where one of the parties happens to have made statements about those minorities, especially when the case itself has nothing to do with those issues.
The identity of one party in the case is only one factor in recusal, as is the subject matter. The whole point of recusal, most of the time, is to avoid the appearance created by the refusal to do it. Belief in judicial fairness is the foundation stone of the whole judicial system, and judges are supposed to go out of their way to avoid anything that poses a threat of undercutting it.

We’ll see what happens, but I don’t think this is going to do anything but grow. The judge had to know the “evidence dump” is going to be grist for the political mill, and yet he did it. Trump is not the one causing the notoriety that’s going to result. Judge Curiel is.
 
If he were Judge Corelli would it matter if he were in the Italian -American Bar Association?

How about if he were Judge McCoral, would it matter if he were in an Irish-American Bar Association? (there are about 75,000 undocumented Irish immigrants in New York and Boston)

It is a Bar Association that Judge Curiel is in.

Why doesn’t Trump go through the procedure to remove the judge from the case?

Why does the Judge need to prove himself impartial? Hasn’t he been successfully vetted to be a Federal Judge?
There is no Italian or Irish “race”, and unlike La Raza, nobody claims there is. But I’ll say this. If this fictitious “Judge MCoral” was a member of an “Irish only” advocacy group raising funds for those Irish illegals to attend college when they shouldn’t even be here; an act that really is aiding and abetting illegal activity, then he should recuse himself in a case involving, say, a Boston Mayoral candidate who advocates deporting Irish illegals. Absolutely.
 
Trump is not the one causing the notoriety that’s going to result. Judge Curiel is.
I disagree. If Trump had not made his inflammatory remarks about the judge’s ethnicity, there would be no notoriety. But Trump is the grand master of creating notoriety.
 
She cornered Trump. All he did was tweet and then gave a temper tantrum speech last night.
That was a great speech by Mrs. Clinton. She very effectively used Mr. Trump’s own words to highlight his nonsensical views. And after the speech Mr. Trump had the audacity to say that she misrepresented his views. No, Mr. Trump, there is video to prove you actually said those things.
 
There is no Italian or Irish “race”, and unlike La Raza, nobody claims there is. But I’ll say this. If this fictitious “Judge MCoral” was a member of an “Irish only” advocacy group raising funds for those Irish illegals to attend college when they shouldn’t even be here; an act that really is aiding and abetting illegal activity, then he should recuse himself in a case involving, say, a Boston Mayoral candidate who advocates deporting Irish illegals. Absolutely.
So your issue is the word Raza, and the existence of cognates that don’t translate well into English?

He’s a Federal Judge hearing a fraud case. It was filed in 2014, before Trump started his run for president. Why didn’t Trump cry foul then?

So, 2 years later we start all over because the Judge is hispanic and a member of a Bar Association, and Trump insinuates he cannot be impartial?
 
There is no Italian or Irish “race”, and unlike La Raza, nobody claims there is. But I’ll say this. If this fictitious “Judge MCoral” was a member of an “Irish only” advocacy group raising funds for those Irish illegals to attend college when they shouldn’t even be here; an act that really is aiding and abetting illegal activity, then he should recuse himself in a case involving, say, a Boston Mayoral candidate who advocates deporting Irish illegals. Absolutely.
I was taught there are only two types of people in the world, those that are Irish and those that want to be. 😃
 
San Jose last night saw the worst violence of the entire campaign. Several people beaten and bloodied as they tried to leave the convention center and hopefully the videos are going viral. The police are just not doing there job. They need to be cracking heads and getting people jail time, because if they don’t someone is going to get seriously injured very soon.
 
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