Don't build walls, Pope Francis says

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Usige said:
It’s kinda funny that the Vatican is surrounded by walls and a Church tax was used to construct St Peter’s Basilica which comprises some of that exclusion zone. Those whole live inside walls paid for by others et cetera. :whistle:

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Just saying, there’s a wall around the Vatican but I believe it is open for all to visit. I hope to visit there someday. I hear theres’ a wealth of Christian History in it besides that the Pope is there.🙂
 
Deplorable – there is that word again. It worked well to label a good portion of the US voters as “deplorable,” so I imagine calling people anti-Catholic, bad Catholic, crazy Catholic along with the word “deplorable” will work equally well. Not!

Catholicism is not socialism.
Socialism is not Catholicism.
The redistribution of wealth is not Catholic teaching.
Liberation theology is not Catholic.
Catholicism is not liberation theology.

Yes, some things are indeed deplorable.

Accepting lucrative government contracts for the resettlement of Muslim refugees from a government that legally attacks a group of religious sisters because they will not pay for insurance services to fund abortion and contraception is deplorable.

Advocating a new world order agenda in the guise of morality and religion is deplorable.

Associating the will and the vote of the people in electing a President with the populism and the rise of Nazism and the election of Hitler (and all that followed with respect to WWII and the Holocaust) is deplorable.

Shall I continue …
 
Son_of_Niall said:
I guess Catholics attacking the Pope is something we should expect here now.
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Attacking the Pope is wrong. Full stop. But if this is an issue of prudential judgement where Catholics can have different views regarding the building of a border wall, then Catholics can have different views regarding the construction of a border wall. To my understanding, the goal of the border wall, correct me if I am wrong, is not only to stop the flow of illegal immigrants to the US, but also to stop the drugs and potentially terrorists, from getting into the USA.
 
The problem for me and many others, is that the Pope doesn’t offer a solution. There is an unwritten rule in the military that you don’t bring up a problem without having a solution. What does the Pope want? Does he want open borders? I don’t think he understands how an economy functions and thus doesn’t understand the kind of poverty immigration can create. If everyone is poor, who is going to take care of the immigrants?

I feel completely disconnected form this Pope. I feel he has no understanding of the middle class, what our needs are and what is happening to us.

I am not questioning his intentions, I know his heart is good. I question is he has the understanding to make accurate moral states on United States policy. Maybe he does,but we will never know, because he never elaborates.
 
A bit more context will show that the Pope is not talking about walls along a nation’s border or around a house or vault or whatever. In his remarks, he didn’t mention Trump or the USA or Mexico. He’s talking about the Christian community (the Church):

“In these cases, the closeness and warmth of all the Church must be even more intense and loving, and must assume the exquisite form of compassion, which is not forbearance: compassion means to suffer with others, to be close to those who suffer, with a word, a caress, that comes from the heart: this is compassion, for those who are in need of comfort and consolation. This is more important than ever: Christian hope cannot dispense with genuine and concrete charity. The same Apostle of the people, in his Letter to the Romans, affirms with his heart in his hand, ‘We who are strong – who have faith and hope, and do not have many difficulties – have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves’ (15,1). This witness does not then remain closed within the confines of the Christian community: it resonates with all its vigour well beyond, in the social and civil context, as an appeal not to create bridges, not walls; not to repay evil with evil, but to conquer evil with good and offence with forgiveness – the Christian can never say, you will pay for this! – offence is conquered with forgiveness, and to live in peace with all. This is the Church! And this is what Christian hope does, when it takes on the strong and at the same time tender features of love. Love is strong and tender”.

Looks like a mistaken translation with the “not to create bridges” but…anyway, here’s the source: press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2017/02/08/170208a.html

Dan
 
dans0622 said:
A bit more context will show that the Pope is not talking about walls along a nation’s border or around a house or vault or whatever. In his remarks, he didn’t mention Trump or the USA or Mexico. He’s talking about the Christian community (the Church):

“In these cases, the closeness and warmth of all the Church must be even more intense and loving, and must assume the exquisite form of compassion, which is not forbearance: compassion means to suffer with others, to be close to those who suffer, with a word, a caress, that comes from the heart: this is compassion, for those who are in need of comfort and consolation. This is more important than ever: Christian hope cannot dispense with genuine and concrete charity. The same Apostle of the people, in his Letter to the Romans, affirms with his heart in his hand, ‘We who are strong – who have faith and hope, and do not have many difficulties – have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves’ (15,1). This witness does not then remain closed within the confines of the Christian community: it resonates with all its vigour well beyond, in the social and civil context, as an appeal not to create bridges, not walls; not to repay evil with evil, but to conquer evil with good and offence with forgiveness – the Christian can never say, you will pay for this! – offence is conquered with forgiveness, and to live in peace with all. This is the Church! And this is what Christian hope does, when it takes on the strong and at the same time tender features of love. Love is strong and tender”.

Looks like a mistaken translation with the “not to create bridges” but…anyway, here’s the source: press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2017/02/08/170208a.html

Dan
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That’s what I said. It’s the media who fan the flames by seeing Trump references in everything.
 
The world, even the Church, seems to have lost its collective mind. I just pray that somewhere in all of the polemics and hysteria, God’s will is done.
 
I am so tired of hearing the excuses that what the Pope said was “mistranslated” from Italian into English or was “inaccurately reported” by the news media.

So we are supposed to ignore what the Pope said months ago prior to the US election when he said clearly that Trump was not a Christian for wanting to build walls, rather than bridges, and for not wanting to throw open wide the borders of the US to refugees and immigrants.

No other pope as far back as I can remember has had this type of mis-translation problem and inaccurate reporting problem as the “difficulties” Pope Francis is having.
 
3_Dog_Night said:
I am so tired of hearing the excuses that what the Pope said was “mistranslated” from Italian into English or was “inaccurately reported” by the news media.

So we are supposed to ignore what the Pope said months ago prior to the US election when he said clearly that Trump was not a Christian for wanting to build walls, rather than bridges, and for not wanting to throw open wide the borders of the US to refugees and immigrants.

No other pope as far back as I can remember has had this type of mis-translation problem and inaccurate reporting problem as the “difficulties” Pope Francis is having.
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And our Pope was right.
I have no clue what your ‘pope’ believes.
 
RedSoxFan45 said:
The problem for me and many others, is that the Pope doesn’t offer a solution. There is an unwritten rule in the military that you don’t bring up a problem without having a solution. What does the Pope want? Does he want open borders? I don’t think he understands how an economy functions and thus doesn’t understand the kind of poverty immigration can create. If everyone is poor, who is going to take care of the immigrants?

I feel completely disconnected form this Pope. I feel he has no understanding of the middle class, what our needs are and what is happening to us.

I am not questioning his intentions, I know his heart is good. I question is he has the understanding to make accurate moral states on United States policy. Maybe he does,but we will never know, because he never elaborates.
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Thank you. The virtues of charity, faith and obedience require Catholics to check and measure our words, thoughts and expressions, and to give deference to the pope. I must confess it has been very difficult for me to honor these virtues. I will have recourse to prayers and confessions.
 
3_Dog_Night said:
I am so tired of hearing the excuses that what the Pope said was “mistranslated” from Italian into English or was “inaccurately reported” by the news media.

So we are supposed to ignore what the Pope said months ago prior to the US election when he said clearly that Trump was not a Christian for wanting to build walls, rather than bridges, and for not wanting to throw open wide the borders of the US to refugees and immigrants.

No other pope as far back as I can remember has had this type of mis-translation problem and inaccurate reporting problem as the “difficulties” Pope Francis is having.
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Building the wall is not anti-Christian. It’s pro-Christian and pro-Catholic.

Also, you did not attack the Pope. I am sorry that some accounts on here have accused you of doing so, but understand it’s the same thing as waving the white flag. Take it as a a compliment.

It is refreshing to see comments that are not falling the gimmicks of the secular left.
 
When my family visited the Vatican, we were vetted.

We had been to Switzerland, and I bought identical Swiss Army knives for my son and me. They were the small ones, with a 1 to 2 inch blade. He had left his in the car, but I was carrying mine. We intentionally got to the entry line early, so we were almost in the front.

Then, I was vetted by Vatican security.

They wanded me, and asked me to put my knife in a large trashcan. When I looked in there, I saw perhaps 100 bright red Swiss Army knives!

I didn’t want to lose mine, so I walked back to the car, and my family went in. When I returned to the line, I was waaay back, behind a lot of people.

When I got in, I had to stand through the Mass, while my family sat down comfortably.
 
twf said:
There is only one moral authority on these forums…only one magisterium: Donald Trump.
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Looks like it. The Spiritus MundI has given the Spiritus Sanctus the boot here, and the Church-hating, red pill-popping brigade are here to stay. An enemy has done this.
 
3_Dog_Night said:
No other pope as far back as I can remember has had this type of mis-translation problem and inaccurate reporting problem as the “difficulties” Pope Francis is having.
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Yes you are right and it is causing huge division in the church which is obviously a bad thing.

The pope mentions that it is unchristian to say ‘I will make you pay for that’.

A lot of people do not want to pay for mass Muslim immigration to their neighbourhoods and create the troubles that will be fostered upon their children.

The pope’s words should be honoured here. You cannot force people to pay for this.

You can’t, so stop it.

If you want to help certain people then you do it. Let others help the people they want to help in the way they want to.

Find a way that does not force payment and suffering on your fellow citizens.

You cannot force them to pay for what you want. That is immoral.
 
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