Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[Ghoti]

As for those of you who are posting “clues” that rock is evil, this all reminds me of the whole “Paul is dead” hoax …

OK, I think you’re confusing your singers here.

Paul McCartney is dead. Elvis’ death was faked.

Here, have some more kool-aid. :whacky:

 

[Ghoti]

I think one can look at the individual song and its lyrical content and see whether or not the subject matter is problematic. Yes, many rock songs have (at best) an ambivalent attitude toward sex, drugs, etc. But there are many that actually cast a bad light on vice and have positive messages. Just some of the tunes I have liked (and are still on my MP3 player):

• “I’ll Stand By You”, The Pretenders. A song about unconditional love. “Nothing you confess/Could make me love you less.” I don’t think anything in that song could not be put in the mouth of the Lord speaking to one of His children.
• “Eve of Destruction”, Barry McGuire. An anti-war song that doesn’t shy away from also condemning everyman’s little hypocracies: “Hate your next-door neighbor/But don’t forget to say grace”.
• “(What’s So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding”, Nick Lowe’s seeking of a better alternative to “pain and hatred and misery”.
• “Money”, Pink Floyd. A general flip-off to capitalism, conspicuous consumption, etc.
• “Hell Is For Children”, Pat Benatar. A very misunderstood song, Pat’s expose of child abuse and the veil of secrecy that allows it to happen.
• “I Fought The Law”, The Bobby Fuller 4. “Breaking rocks in the hot sun/I fought the Law and the Law won.” A prisoner’s lament for ending up on the wrong side of the Law. Simple morality play.
• “Hymn”, Barclay James Harvest. I love this one – an anti-drug song that tells you that the way to find God is not through getting high.
• “Mother’s Little Helper”, The Rolling Stones. Ironically, a song that shines an unflattering light on prescription drug abuse.
• “Let It Be”, The Beatles. Paul’s song about his mother could easily be a prayer to the Blessed Virgin: “Let It Be” is a loose translation of “Amen”.
• “Dust In The Wind”, Kansas. A good song about the fleetingness of this mortal realm. “And all your money won’t another minute buy”. A good theme for Ash Wednesday.

Then there are the following very good rock ‘n’ roll songs…

• “Green Onions”, Booker T & the MG’s
• “Hawai’i Five-O”, The Ventures
• “Misirlou”, Dick Dale and the Del-Tones
• “Axel F”, Harold Faltermeyer
• “Rock It”, Herbie Hancock
• “Elegy”, Jethro Tull
• “Telstar”, The Tornadoes
• “Having and Ordinary Weekend”, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet
• “Popcorn”, Hot Butter
• “Classical Gas”, Mason Williams
• “Albatross”, Fleetwood Mac

…in which I challenge you to find any objectionable lyrics.

I also think there are a number of other songs, such as plain old romantic love songs – or even Paul’s “Silly Love Songs” – without objectionable lyrical content, which would be at worst morally neutral.

I mean, what’s wrong with “I’m walking on sunshine”, or “Goin’ to the Chapel and we’re/Gonna get ma-aa-aa-ried”, or “Like Bulldog Drummond because I’ve been searching…”

Or even…

“Have I Told You Lately that I love you?
Have I told you there’s no one else above you?
Fill my heart with gladness, take away all my sadness,
Ease my troubles, that’s what you do…”

and the bridge:

“And at the end of the day,
We should give thanks and pray,
To The One, to The One.”

Not all rock is bad.

 

[Portrait]

Speaking of which, the Salem witch trials were partially caused by people eating rye bread made with a fungus that was an early form of LSD. Fun fact of the day. :hypno: And just to make myself clear, I am not in support of recreational drug use, nor are most posters on CAF.

With the examples you’ve given us, you might as well “witch hunt” all of history and the whole world. I apologize if rock musicians in general (which is a useless phrase, given the broad perception of “rock” music) aren’t as perfect as you think they should be. There are many people in all other walks of life who are just as bad or worse.

Dear CTA1967,

The issue is not about people falling short of perfection, no Christian would contest that fact and Sacred Scripture confirms it also - “For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also” (Jam. 3: 2). On the contrary it is everything about Christians distancing themselves from that which is decidedly and unequivocally nefarious and morally reprehensible - which rock music most certainly is. This is validated by a statement that John Lennon, with laudable honesty, made shortly before his death: “Rock music has got the same message as before. It is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality. But now I understand what you have to do. You have to put the message across with a little honey on it” Now those words seem plain enough to me, thus it is not necessary to complicate matters by saying that they are open to diverse interpretations. Clearly, these dispassionate words, coming from one who epitomized hedonisic excess and irreligion, could have been uttered by a Christian moralist such as myself - now that is quite a thought is it not?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Joe_5859]

Portrait,

I understand that there are a lot of questionable characters involved in rock music. That’s not hard to see. But I think we have to ask whether the music itself is the cause (even indirectly) of such behavior or whether it is simply a rallying point around which such people have chosen to gather. (Or perhaps there is another option I am not thinking of at the moment.) If the music was so intertwined with such thoughts and behavior, one would expect every rock band and every rock fan to be like this. But that’s not the case.

I’m interested to hear what you have to say regarding “Christian rock”. What about bands like Stryper who pass out Bibles at their concerts and live clean, drug-free lives? If rock music is so debased, how are such bands able to exist? Are they simply deluding themselves (as we are ), or are they not “really” Christian? Is it possible to be both a good Christian and a rock star/rock fan?

Just to give you a bit of personal background, I’ve been listening to rock/metal music for the last 20+ years (ever since I saw Bon Jovi’s “You Give Love a Bad Name” video in second-grade ). I always enjoyed the rock, but never went for the “sex and drugs” component. I never got involved with any of that growing up. I was vehemently opposed to smoking, drinking, and premarital sex. I never got involved with the occult. I always went to Mass on Sundays and prayed every day. And I was such a fan of the music that, in elementary school, I even wanted to be a rock star when I grew up.

I always figured that, if rock music really had the effect some people said it should have, I would be totally morally depraved (and possibly a serial killer). But that never happened to me. Given this personal experience, you can see why it is difficult for me to believe that rock music is so dreadfully problematic. It simply hasn’t borne such bad fruit in my life.

I guess it’s always possible that I’m deluding myself, so if you have any thoughts on some more subtle evils of rock music, I would be interested in what you have to say.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

I’m 52 years old, on vacation this week. After doing the chores my wife left me, I got out my guitar, plugged it in and had a good old jam session. Had to stop because 14 yo daughter told me that “everyone could hear me”, I was an “embarrassment” and this was not the time for a “mid-life crisis”. Now it turns out that on top of all that I’m bound for Hell! If I’d known I’d have confessed my liking for this sinful genre on Saturday evening. As for the exponents of Gregorian Chant being the only suitable Church music…what did they do before Pope St Gregory?

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m 52 years old, on vacation this week. After doing the chores my wife left me, I got out my guitar, plugged it in and had a good old jam session. Had to stop because 14 yo daughter told me that “everyone could hear me”, I was an “embarrassment” and this was not the time for a “mid-life crisis”. Now it turns out that on top of all that I’m bound for Hell! If I’d known I’d have confessed my liking for this sinful genre on Saturday evening. As for the exponents of Gregorian Chant being the only suitable Church music…what did they do before Pope St Gregory?

I know this is an aside, but I just have to point out that Gregorian chant is so named not because Pope St. Gregory invented it, but because he codified it. It was already in existence before his time.

 

[CTA1967]

OK, I think you’re confusing your singers here.

Paul McCartney is dead. Elvis’ death was faked.

Here, have some more kool-aid. :whacky:

Whoah, you’ve just shattered my whole perception of reality by posting on an online forum topic about how an entire genre of art can be evil! Thanks a lot! Now I have to go find Elvis…

 

[CTA1967]

Okay, since music can apparently be inherently evil, how about we play a game? I name a genre of music, and you explain to me its objective morality by providing sources about the artists’ private lives, their influences, their music itself, official Church documents concerning their morality (good luck), etc. I’m sure some eyes will be opened by history. Here we go!

Baroque
Classical
Romantic
Modern
Avant-garde
Chant
Polyphony (Hmm, let’s take a close look at this one)
Folk
Country
Rockabilly
Blues
Gospel
Jazz
Soul
Rhythm and blues
Motown
Reggae
Oldies pop
Broadway
Film scores
Chuck Berry (who is a genre according to John Lennon )
Blues rock
Jazz rock
Southern rock
Folk rock
Classic rock
Progressive rock
Symphonic rock
Christian rock
Punk rock
Pop rock
Soft pop
Disco
New wave
New romantic
Avant-garde rock
Metal
Grunge
Alternative
Indie
Hip hop
Rap

And the list can go on. I mean, if we’re going to be scrupulous about this, we might as well look at every detail, right?

 

[CTA1967]

This is validated by a statement that John Lennon, with laudable honesty, made shortly before his death: “Rock music has got the same message as before. It is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality. But now I understand what you have to do. You have to put the message across with a little honey on it” Now those words seem plain enough to me, thus it is not necessary to complicate matters by saying that they are open to diverse interpretations. Clearly, these dispassionate words, coming from one who epitomized hedonisic excess and irreligion, could have been uttered by a Christian moralist such as myself - now that is quite a thought is it not?

And this really make me feel like I’m being ignored. Stop trying to label an entire genre of art with quotes from individuals. Different artists can have different opinions of rock, just like how Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II had different opinions.

Also, going back to the David Bowie quote. First of all, it’s David Bowie, which should be enough of an explanation for most people. Secondly, that’s like taking Edgar Allan Poe’s morbid inspiration for literature and applying it to all short story authors. It doesn’t work. Generalizations don’t work for any kind of art because people are different

Edit: Okay, here’s a little gem I dug up. Is this the line of reasoning you’re going to follow?
Pro Domina;4613746:

would the immense influence of freemasonry on classical music mean that Haydn (and others) is bad for your soul?

To some extent, sure. The fall of the Middle Ages was done through the arts, because it is Man’s tendencies in his actions and way of living that eventually give way to ideas and then revolutions. All the sentimentality in the arts that did not exist in the Middle Ages eventually became the driving force of a revolution no one realize was happening. Every other one, the Protestant, the French, the Communist revolution had a reaction to it.

The Rennaisance entered with out a single cry.
The Devil and masonry at it’s best.

Yes, there were plenty of famous composers who were “anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality.” Broaden your research if you really want to psychoanalyze music.

 

[CTA1967]

Oh right, I forgot that you’re probably going to ask me specifically about that last comment, just like how you had to scrutinize why Pope John Paul II invited several rock musicians to perform at the Vatican.

Anti-religious: Haydn left the Church, influenced by Mozart’s freemasonry.
Anti-nationlistic: Shostakovich definitely did not have a happy relationship with the USSR.
Anti-morality: Debussy was known for having affairs and abandoning a wife and several partners.

Just a few examples of many…

 

[Portrait]

Portrait,

I understand that there are a lot of questionable characters involved in rock music. That’s not hard to see. But I think we have to ask whether the music itself is the cause (even indirectly) of such behavior or whether it is simply a rallying point around which such people have chosen to gather. (Or perhaps there is another option I am not thinking of at the moment.) If the music was so intertwined with such thoughts and behavior, one would expect every rock band and every rock fan to be like this. But that’s not the case.

I’m interested to hear what you have to say regarding “Christian rock”. What about bands like Stryper who pass out Bibles at their concerts and live clean, drug-free lives? If rock music is so debased, how are such bands able to exist? Are they simply deluding themselves (as we are ), or are they not “really” Christian? Is it possible to be both a good Christian and a rock star/rock fan?

Just to give you a bit of personal background, I’ve been listening to rock/metal music for the last 20+ years (ever since I saw Bon Jovi’s “You Give Love a Bad Name” video in second-grade ). I always enjoyed the rock, but never went for the “sex and drugs” component. I never got involved with any of that growing up. I was vehemently opposed to smoking, drinking, and premarital sex. I never got involved with the occult. I always went to Mass on Sundays and prayed every day. And I was such a fan of the music that, in elementary school, I even wanted to be a rock star when I grew up.

I always figured that, if rock music really had the effect some people said it should have, I would be totally morally depraved (and possibly a serial killer). But that never happened to me. Given this personal experience, you can see why it is difficult for me to believe that rock music is so dreadfully problematic. It simply hasn’t borne such bad fruit in my life.

I guess it’s always possible that I’m deluding myself, so if you have any thoughts on some more subtle evils of rock music, I would be interested in what you have to say.

Dear Joe 5859,

Once again thankyou for another very thoughtful and balanced posting.

Just to set the record straight, even though I vehemently disagree with many of the posters on this thread, that does not mean that I wish to unchurch them or call into question the genuiness of their Christian professsion. As far as I am concerned they are my brothers/sisters in Christ and I will accord them respect as such. As your own postings have evinced it is possible to debate with one another and avoid any rancour or uncharitableness. I think we all need to be on our guard and avoid an eristic style of debating where the one sole aim is to win a clever argument and to overwhelm ones opponent. This, as I am certain everyone would agree, is a rather sterile exercise that achieves nothing except senseless controversies that breed quarrels. By all means let us have a fair and frank exchange of views but let us do so in a gentlemanly spirit ensuring that Christian character is not violated - “speaking the truth in love” (St. Paul).

Now Joe you ask my opinion about what I think of Christian rock. To be perfectly honest I do not really know enough about it to be able to comment at any length. However, I suspect that in both its Catholic and Protestant manifestations one can assume that the vast majority of those involved in the Christian rock scene are sincere people seeking to serve God through the medium of rock music. This most probably would apply to the band Stryper that you mention, they are obvously upright, high-minded folks who sincerely want to disseminate God’s truth at their concerts. Look I will give this matter some further thought and get back to you if that is alright.

Given your background I can indeed see why rock is not ‘problematic’ for you. To your credit you have tried to live a devout life and evidently have, in many respects, “kept yourself unstained from the world”(James 1: 27). That I think is a very significant factor as to why secular rock has not reaped a bitter harvest in your life; you could say that the religious (name removed by moderator)ut, especially in those critical teenage years, has counteracted any of the poision inherent in rock music and mitigated its harmful effects upon your soul. Actually I myself have had a very similar experience to yourself. For many years I have been a great devotee of 1970’s Disco and Funk music and still continue to listen to it even now at the age of 48!! However, I always feel very ill-at-ease doing so since some of the songs have sexually immoral overtones and are quite sensual and I feel very unclean and impure after listening to it. So why listen to it ? because I just love the rythym and beat. My favourite groups are Chic, La Bionda, Sister Sledge, Cerrone, Earth, Wind and Fire, Rose Royce to name but a few. Favourite solo artists include, Dan Hartman, Patrick Juvet, Johnny Bristol, Diana Ross, Donna Summer, Viola Wills et al. This has been a weakness of mine and besseting sin for many years now and I just wish I could renounce it all as I feel I am not giving myself totally to our Lord. Well the cat is out of the bag now and people on this thread will at least know that I am human after all and have my own struggles with sin to contend with.

It is my intention to write some further thoughts on secular rock music tommorow (Saturday). Until then farewell Joe and all other posters on this current thread.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait

 

[CTA1967]

Okay, honest question. Do you struggle with scrupulosity? I fail to see the sin in listening to EWF, Diana Ross, etc. Unless listening to them actually causes you to go sin, I don’t see how you feeling “unclean and impure” makes the music itself inherently sinful. From the information you’ve given us, I guess it may be better for you to avoid it, but the same may not hold true for everyone.

Which brings me to another point. Different kinds of music can have different effects on different people. I mean, composers like Debussy have been described as “sensual”. Just something to consider.

 

[Ghoti]

Okay, honest question. Do you struggle with scrupulosity? I fail to see the sin in listening to EWF, Diana Ross, etc. Unless listening to them actually causes you to go sin, I don’t see how you feeling “unclean and impure” makes the music itself inherently sinful. From the information you’ve given us, I guess it may be better for you to avoid it, but the same may not hold true for everyone.

Which brings me to another point. Different kinds of music can have different effects on different people. I mean, composers like Debussy have been described as “sensual”. Just something to consider.

I think I can see where friend Portrait is coming from. He mentioned Johnny Bristol: I remember almost every K-Tel album that came out in 1974/75 had “Hang On In There, Baby” on it. I was about 9 or 10, and I remember feeling sort of “dirty” listening to that song, even though I was quite naive.

But then again, it was the lyrical content, not the music. That song would’ve still creeped me out if it had been set to sacred polyphony. On the other hand, beautiful verses of praise and worship could be set to the melody, and it would be all right – or it could be anything at all in a foreign language, and I’d never understand it to either be uplifted or cast down, and would rely only on the melody and rhythm. Sort of like my first exposure to “Lady Marmalade” – it was the French version by Nanette Workman, and all I remember from it was “lama say foo sassy foo sassy foo”. Definite toe-tapper, had no idea it was about prostitutes in N’awlins.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

On the other hand, beautiful verses of praise and worship could be set to the melody, and it would be all right – or it could be anything at all in a foreign language, and I’d never understand it to either be uplifted or cast down, and would rely only on the melody and rhythm. Sort of like my first exposure to “Lady Marmalade” – it was the French version by Nanette Workman, and all I remember from it was “lama say foo sassy foo sassy foo”. Definite toe-tapper, had no idea it was about prostitutes in N’awlins.

Oh I can so see where you’re coming from with the different language thing. My family and relatives all look at me weird because I listen to Japanese music even though I don’t understand the lyrics. Now while it’s pretty obvious that the only type I listen to are songs used as anime openings or endings but what makes them distinguishable from each other is the melody, followed by mere words (or romaji as some call it). Meaning is pretty much thrown out the window (unless you count the association of the song with the show it was used in).

 

[philialeaf]

Tee hee hee! I just clicked on that “Devil Music” site that an earlier poster linked. HA! It cracked me up! I found this quote in an article about the song “Time For Me to Fly” by REO Speedwagon: “REO Speedwagon’s song is not very popular with the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s never time for a Christian to divorce. It’s never time for a parent to disown a child. It’s never time to quit on someone we love.” So we know Jesus’s taste in music, now? Hilarious! The song could just as easily be about leaving an abusive or unhealthy dating relationship. I don’t know. I never cared for REO Speedwagon. God gave us minds! We don’t need to live in such fear and paranoia as this unhealthy website seems to promote. We don’t need to be running away from anything that seems like it might in some way or another promote sin or evil. Like a previous poster mentioned you find what you are looking for. Some people need to lighten up. I didn’t find an article on the Eagles but I’m guessing the song “Hotel California” is the one in question since it is supposedly about the church of Satan. But if you listen to the whole song applying this concept, it is talking about it being a bad thing you don’t want to get mixed up in, not promoting it at all. I didn’t read “Beyonce Knowles is of the Devil” but I might have to agree with that one.

 

[Scott_D]

stop right there.

you can say “they had too much to do with the occult” you can say “this or that group espoused false beliefs” but dont you EVER have the nerve to call someone a “phony Christian” unless you can back that up.

i happen to know a lot about Elvis… he had serious drug problems. paranoia, and probably bi polar… but to his dying Day he said he was Christian.
we may or may not like him
we may or may not feel he was a “good” Christian
but phony?
troubled, hurt, sick, pathetic, wretched, sinful… i could apply those labels to many Christians (and non Christians) but they dont make a a phony.

You are not a Christian just because you say so. Look up Elvis’ new age background and beliefs. Look up his fascination with Madame Blavatsky. This site says it all- adherents.com/people/pp/Elvis_Presley.html

 

[Portrait]

Dear Joe5859,

Hello again.

Having given the matter of Christian rock music some thought today, I submit the following points for your perusal:

First, it is said that Christian rock music draws the crowds. Undeniably it does but that is hardly surprising; in the first place pop music has become an indispensable part of today’s youth culture and many teenagers are immersed in their music for lengthy periods of time. It is an identity mark - and the Christian rock event gives the young Christian an apparently irresistible forum in which to express his religion in this way without having the need to resist the pressure of his cultural group. This is not exactly daring to be different by offering a genuine Christian counter-culture.

Second, What spiritual, moral or ethical demands does Christian rock make? Essentially it is presented as entertainment and as something merely to be enjoyed. Now in the concert context it seems undeniable that most of the audience is there to simply enjoy the music, not to do any serious thinking about more weighty issues such as righteousness, temperance and the Judgement. Thus is there not a real danger of the emergence of the semi-converted, shallowly committed youth whose religion amounts to little more than reaching states of euphoria at rock concerts - not unlike his pagan counterpart?

Third, Unfortunately we are living in days of unprecedented spiritual declension and depresssion, when the Church has a much greater appetite for the trivial and amusing than for the challenging and heart searching. Obviously the rock concert is more at home with the milieu of the former than with the latter. Surely one of the subtlest ways of flattering a man is to communicate the Gospel in a manner he wants rather than in the way he needs. An Anglican clergyman I knew used to talk of the futility of trying to draw the younger generation to church by using the “beat group” at Sunday Worship (this was back in the 1960’s). He said this was nothing more than dishonestly baiting the hook and anyway the young people attending knew very well that it was all a pretext to get them to hear the sermon.

Fourth, is there not a distinctive difference between Christian rock and secular rock? That is a good question and I can see why it would be strongly advanced by advocates of Christian rock, but is it a valid argument? No, I do not believe that it is. Rock is communication without words, regardless of what ideology is inserted into the music itself; the words only let one know what the music already says, I mean* the music is its own message * Clearly rock music is rock music and not merely a plastic medium that can be bent in any direction. Moreover you cannot change the basic effect of certain kinds of rythym and beat simply by attaching to them a few religious or semi-religious words. That beat will still penetrate through to the blood of the participants and the listeners; plus decibels and beat are bold animals, which can so very easily submerge the words under an avalanche of sound.

As to secular rock music I think there are other elements that have given it a bad name, in addition to the Occult connections and Needles and Pills (drugs). Blasphemy readily comes to mind for this unquetionably has been one of rocks bad companions. Back in 1964 the Beatles’ press officer Derek Taylor said, “It’s as if they founded a new religion. They are completely anti-Christ. I mean I’m anti-Christ as well, but they’re so anti-Christ they shock me, which is not an easy thing”

Blasphemy became the state of the art with the two hugely popular musicals, **Godspell **and Jesus Christ Superstar. Stephen Schwartz, *Godspell’s *musical author, said, “I wrote it because Christianity is the biggest myth there there is around and I’m going to show what a myth it is by making a joke out of it”. One of the ways in which Schwartz did this was by dressing the characters as clowns and then having them parody Scripture, such as when St. john the Baptist baptized Jesus with a sponge, making sure to clean behind the ears. As for Jesus Christ Superstar I would be happy to dicuss that also next time if you are interested. Other examples of blasphemy are highly offensive and thus most unsuitable for citation on a Christian web site like CAF.

There are some remaining aspects of secular rock that I would like to discuss but they must wait until next time.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[catholiccolleen]

Ha thats just silly
As long as you dont take music too seriously, listening to rock and stuff isnt bad. I listen to a lot of rap as well, and I know the lyrics are super bad, bu its not like I’m going out and doing the stuff they are saying. I really only listen to bad music for the beats and stuff. And too, just because someone says something, dosnt mean they are always right.

“The happiness you desire, the happiness you have a right to enjoy, has a name and a face: it is Jesus of Nazareth.”

 

[Portrait]

Tee hee hee! I just clicked on that “Devil Music” site that an earlier poster linked. HA! It cracked me up! I found this quote in an article about the song “Time For Me to Fly” by REO Speedwagon: “REO Speedwagon’s song is not very popular with the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s never time for a Christian to divorce. It’s never time for a parent to disown a child. It’s never time to quit on someone we love.” So we know Jesus’s taste in music, now? Hilarious! The song could just as easily be about leaving an abusive or unhealthy dating relationship. I don’t know. I never cared for REO Speedwagon. God gave us minds! We don’t need to live in such fear and paranoia as this unhealthy website seems to promote. We don’t need to be running away from anything that seems like it might in some way or another promote sin or evil. Like a previous poster mentioned you find what you are looking for. Some people need to lighten up. I didn’t find an article on the Eagles but I’m guessing the song “Hotel California” is the one in question since it is supposedly about the church of Satan. But if you listen to the whole song applying this concept, it is talking about it being a bad thing you don’t want to get mixed up in, not promoting it at all. I didn’t read “Beyonce Knowles is of the Devil” but I might have to agree with that one.

Dear philialeaf,

Re. The Eagles

The name comes from the chief spirit in the indian cosmos and the group was formed under the occultic influence of Carlos Castaneda. They admit to writing most of their songs while under the influence of the drug peyote. Several of their songs, such as ‘Witchy Woman’, ‘One of these Nights’ and ‘Good Day in Hell’, include satanic or occultic lyrics. One of their songs, ‘Undercover Angel’, speaks about copulation with evil spirits and one of their albums bears the goat’s head insignia (an occultic symbol).

Glen Frey, a member of The Eagles said: "I’m in rock music for the sex and narcotics’!

This has nothing to do with paranoia or some irrational fear, but has everything to do with unmitigated evil and filth.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

Okay, honest question. Do you struggle with scrupulosity? I fail to see the sin in listening to EWF, Diana Ross, etc. Unless listening to them actually causes you to go sin, I don’t see how you feeling “unclean and impure” makes the music itself inherently sinful. From the information you’ve given us, I guess it may be better for you to avoid it, but the same may not hold true for everyone.

Which brings me to another point. Different kinds of music can have different effects on different people. I mean, composers like Debussy have been described as “sensual”. Just something to consider.

Dear CTA1967,

As Christians are we not all called to be scrupulous, at least to a certain degree? Clearly if one is earnest regarding the pursuit of holiness then to some extent a clearly-defined list of taboos’ is unavoidable; there are certain practices and habits, certain pleasures and certain places to which the Christian will not go. People nowadays are all to quick to dismiss this as “Puritan” legalism. However before we hastily write it off we ought to realise that there is a very healthy element in it; it does betoken, at least, the undeniable fact that certain things are incompatible with the devout life. Of course the life of faith is more than a list of ‘do’s and dont’s’, thus “faith, hope and love” are indispensable as are works of mercy. So no we should not restrict worldliness to a list of taboos but neither should we discard them completely, for they are an integral part of the devout life. The debate of course rages over what is and what is not acceptable for a Christian, and here feelings can, as this current thread shows, run exceedingly high. In the final analysis every one must be fully persuaded in their own minds, one can only give ones reasons for avoiding a certain pleasure or practice, other people must make their own choices - “It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand” (Rom. 14: 4)

However, I think when you ask me if I struggle with scrupulosity what you really advert to is overscrupulosity. Now I think any Christian who is striving to keep themselves “unstained from the world” (Jam. 1: 27) will, especially in the current hedonistic climate of the West, almost certainly face accusations of being overscrupulous or narrow-minded, that seems almost inevitable. Perhaps we need to keep our eyes on the example of our Lord. Never singular, never an ascetic, enjoying the good things of this world, a good companion of men, and yet all the while aloof, aloof from the iniquity and the sin that abounded all around Him. There was this wonderful balance. He was right in the midst of it, and yet all the time He was completely unpolluted and untainted by it. That notwithstanding, Jesus did say that if any man would be His disciple then that man must take up his cross and *deny * himself, now that surely implies renunciation and abstinence; the Christian is called to live up to the ardous requirements of the New Testament and we are warned by St. James that “…whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God” (Jam. 4: 4).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait