Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[Joe_5859]

I’m gonna jump in and say that I’m pretty sure Aleister Crowley wasn’t a satanist. Could be wrong.

And just because Satan is mentioned in a song doesn’t necessarily make it satanist…
“Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me”? That sounds more like the singer is acknowledging his sins and is afraid of what will happen to his soul. And aside from the meditation thing (which isn’t much of a “he’s evil!” call) that list has nothing on the Beach Boys. Who cares if he had connections with the Manson family? Obviously nobody knew about the family’s intentions or else the murders would have never taken place. If one of your friends went out and murdered some people tomorrow, would that make you a satanist?

I agree with your take on the Queen quote. Although --true story – a friend in college was listening to that song and, when that line was sung, she heard a loud breaking sound and she noticed a hole had been mysteriously shot through one of her glass vases. She never listened to the song after that and would always say, “Well, God has a guardian angel set aside for me!”

In these discussions, I can’t help but shake my head in bewildered amusement. How about we give examples of all the actors and actresses living questionable lives or saying questionable things and conclude that all TV and movies are “of the devil.” Or how about we take a handful of authors who have lived questionable lives or said questioanble things and conclude that all literature is “of the devil.” Or perhaps I could pull out my Rahner, Curran and Schillebeeckx, choose a few choice quotes and conclude that all priest-theologians are “of the devil.”

For any rock band that someone names with questionable elements, I can name one for which you will find nothing questionable. I don’t see what that proves except for the fact that this world is made up of all sorts of different people.

 

[CTA1967]

Why don’t we start discussing all the satanic connections in other genres of music like classical? We’ve come up with interesting answers on this forum before…

Really, do some people not use logic? Since that post was cited again, Our Lady of the Roses is not approved by the Catholic Church. It is condemned, so why would you even need to bother arguing with it?

As for Benedict’s opinion on the matter, read this:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342339&highlight=women+pants

Analogously, as a high-ranking cardinal for over twenty years, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger often had attributed to him such eyebrow-raising opinions that rock music is a “vehicle of anti-religion” (source) and that Buddhism is an “autoerotic spirituality” (source). As Pope Benedict XVI, he has either avoided offering personal opinion or taken great pains to label it as “personal opinion” and not Church teaching.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

people today are influenced by the devil through music(rock music,country music,etcetera).

Even Johnny Cash?

 

[CTA1967]

Even Johnny Cash?

Even Papa Haydn, that heretic!

Seriously, why are some people so obsessive about squeezing their own perceptions of satanic references out of everything? In a similar topic, someone went so far as to say that the composers of the Romantic period should be condemned. :banghead: But if this is the line of reasoning that people use, I suppose it’s only natural they would come to that conclusion.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Even Papa Haydn, that heretic!

Seriously, why are some people so obsessive about squeezing their own perceptions of satanic references out of everything?

Most Catholics I know don’t make a fuss about rock & roll, even John Paul II liked it.

 

[CTA1967]

Most Catholics I know don’t make a fuss about rock & roll, even John Paul II liked it.

Yeah, I know he was a fan of Bob Dylan, B.B. King, Bono, and others.

 

[Portrait]

Yeah, I know he was a fan of Bob Dylan, B.B. King, Bono, and others.

Dear CTA1967,

When you say that the late Pope John Paul II was a ‘fan’ of the above mentioned musicians, can you kindly define what you mean. Did he merely believe that the content of their songs had certain spiritual overtones and was thus worthy of reflection, perhaps as a possible ‘preparation for the gospel’ and the higher more nobler truths contained therein? In any event I think most people would surely acknowledge that those artists are in an entirely different league to say Black Sabbath or the Eagles.

Can you substantiate the claim that he was an ardent fan of Dylan, king and Bono in the sense that he was a true devotee of them?

Just a marginal note. It would seem that vetran man of Rock, David Bowie, is more honest than some Catholics. In an interview with* Rolling Stone* he said, “Rock has always been the devil’s music. You can’t convince me that it isn’t. I honestly believe everything that I’ve said. I believe that rock ‘n’ roll is dangerous” - I could not have put it better myself.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This catalouge is both sickening and very frightening - res ipsa loquitor (the facts speak for themselves). Moreover, there is no saying how many other bands, singers and musicians may be involved in the occult and whose music may be impregnated with the poison. For people to blithely say that the issue is limited to an occasional rock singer dabbling with the occult is dangerously naive. For Catholics to arise and vehemently defend such wickedness and evil is nothing short of shameful and embarrassing.

Oh yes, it’s naive all right even though your so-called catalogue is just a fraction of rock musicians all over the world. We’re naive even though there are bands that exist outside America and are popular within their respective countries.

Oh and yeah, a ton of rock music is impregnated with poison even though rock music it’s been used to relay various messages and used for different purposes (e.g. television/cartoon intros).

 

[CTA1967]

Can you substantiate the claim that he was an ardent fan of Dylan, king and Bono in the sense that he was a true devotee of them?

He personally invited them to the Vatican, if that means anything at all to you. Google is your friend if you know what sources you can trust.

 

[Portrait]

He personally invited them to the Vatican, if that means anything at all to you. Google is your friend if you know what sources you can trust.

Dear CTA1967,

Thankyou most kindly for your response to my posting on what is, I freely admit, a highly controversial topic over which feelings inevitably run high on both sides of the debate. However I firmly believe that along with some other thorny issues the rock media warrants a provocative, hard-hitting examination. Moreover, It goes without saying that if we are fully persuaded as regards our own position and convictions on the issue, then we really have nothing to fear from opposing standpoints.

For what specific purpose did the late Pope invite these gentlemen to the Vatican? Was it to discuss the content of their songs, possibly as a message medium, or simply because he was a devotee of their music and eagerly bought all their allbums like any passionate fan? Was it to explore the possibility of incorporatating specifically Christian themes into their future musical compositions as a means to reach those people that might not otherwise be reached through the regular religious channels - Church, Sacred Scripture, Catechesis etc.?

I am relatively new to the internet and would be interested to know which sources you believe are trustworthy and impartial, at least as far as this is possible in a fallen world such as ours?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait.

 

[Secret_Square]

Not to send this thread careening off into yet another direction but…

It’s been at least 15 years since I have heard anyone mention a “Life in the Spirit Seminar”. I know they were popular in the heyday of the Catholic charismatic movement back in the '70s and '80s, but honestly, I didn’t realize they still existed.

Back then my mom and I were both involved in the charismatic movement and often attended prayer groups, retreats, etc. There were and are a lot of very good people at those events and in those days of immediate post-Vatican II confusion they were often the most observant and orthodox Catholics we knew. (Mother Angelica, in fact, started her public speaking and TV ministry as a Catholic charismatic and very early in her TV career appeared on shows like PTL and the 700 Club.) Today most of them have taken a more traditional turn and you will find them at Rosary rallies, Latin Masses, or at perpetual adoration chapels.

However… Catholic charismatics were in some cases heavily influenced by the evangelical/fundamentalist/Pentecostal approach to religion, including its (over)emphasis on things like faith healing, speaking in tongues/prophecy, the millennialist (if that’s the correct word) interpretation of the End Times, and a very dualistic approach to the world – anything that is “of the flesh” or not directly of God is therefore bad or evil.

So it doesn’t surprise me that a priest leading a Life in the Spirit Seminar – whom I would presume to be involved in or influenced by the charismatic movement – would take a characteristically “Pentecostal” approach to the topic of music and declare all popular music to be evil.

As for Pope Benedict XVI’s statement about pop music being a cult of banality… there are probably a lot of musicians, including rock musicians, who would agree completely. A lot of really good music in ALL genres fails to gain recognition because the commercial powers that be in the music industry don’t take interest in it – while people of dubious talent like Britney Spears become superstars. Go figure.

 

[Portrait]

Dear fellow posters,

It is an indisputable fact that the Devil and his forces have deeply invaded man’s social and cultural structures - and music has not been overlooked. The catalougue, and it could be extended, of musicians I have given above clearly demonstrates beyond any question the Satanic and occultic connections that regularly occur in the world of rock. Now this being the case how can we, as Christians, justify any involvement with it let alone champion it as a perfectly acceptable musical genre?

“Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them” (Eph. 5: 11).

“What fellowship can light have with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14).

For a Christian to retain inward grace and holiness and yet at the same time enter voluntarily into intimate communion with the world, is as impossible as to combine light and darkness, holiness and sin, happiness and misery.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Joe_5859]

Dear fellow posters,

It is an indisputable fact that the Devil and his forces have deeply invaded man’s social and cultural structures - and music has not been overlooked. The catalougue, and it could be extended, of musicians I have given above clearly demonstrates beyond any question the Satanic and occultic connections that regularly occur in the world of rock. Now this being the case how can we, as Christians, justify any involvement with it let alone champion it as a perfectly acceptable musical genre?

“Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them” (Eph. 5: 11).

“What fellowship can light have with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14).

For a Christian to retain inward grace and holiness and yet at the same time enter voluntarily into intimate communion with the world, is as impossible as to combine light and darkness, holiness and sin, happiness and misery.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

For one, I have yet to see any concrete evidence that rock music is inherently evil.

We could pick any profession or class of people (rock star, TV star, writer, hairdresser, homemaker, teacher, politician, priest, etc.) and find unsavory people promoting unsavory things. If I find half a dozen teachers promoting same-sex “marriage” (or astrology or any number of things), does that mean I can say that anyone who attends a school is in league with Satan? Even if I go one step further and poll all the teachers in the world and find that 99% of them promote these evils in the classroom, does that mean that educating children is an inherently satanic activity? Of course not. It means we have severe problems with our educational system, but it doesn’t mean that education itself is the problem.

More is required. Simply providing examples of rock stars with dubious connections is not sufficient evidence to condemn an entire genre of music. We must answer the question: What is it about rock music specifically that makes it satanic? The presence of an electric guitar? The bass and drums? A certain arrangement of notes? A certain beat? The lyrical content? The lifestyle of the performer?

I will say, though, Portrait, that you are by far the most articulate person I have come across advancing this position. It is quite refreshing!

 

[CTA1967]

Dear CTA1967,

Thankyou most kindly for your response to my posting on what is, I freely admit, a highly controversial topic over which feelings inevitably run high on both sides of the debate. However I firmly believe that along with some other thorny issues the rock media warrants a provocative, hard-hitting examination. Moreover, It goes without saying that if we are fully persuaded as regards our own position and convictions on the issue, then we really have nothing to fear from opposing standpoints.

For what specific purpose did the late Pope invite these gentlemen to the Vatican? Was it to discuss the content of their songs, possibly as a message medium, or simply because he was a devotee of their music and eagerly bought all their allbums like any passionate fan? Was it to explore the possibility of incorporatating specifically Christian themes into their future musical compositions as a means to reach those people that might not otherwise be reached through the regular religious channels - Church, Sacred Scripture, Catechesis etc.?

I am relatively new to the internet and would be interested to know which sources you believe are trustworthy and impartial, at least as far as this is possible in a fallen world such as ours?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait.

Pope John Paul II’s invitations were mostly just to get together with the musicians and have them perform their music. He did comment on Bob Dylan’s lyric in “Blowin’ in the Wind” by saying that Christ is the “road” that a man must walk. Which is an important point. Just because one person thinks a song means something doesn’t mean that’s what the artist intended, or what other listeners get out of it. We can each have our own understandings of songs, and that is part of the beauty of any form of art.

About what websites to trust, just avoid conspiracy websites, satires, tabloids, etc. and you should generally get factual information, if not a bit unbiased.

As for those of you who are posting “clues” that rock is evil, this all reminds me of the whole “Paul is dead” hoax from the sixties. Basically, some weird people thought they found “clues” that Paul McCartney died in a car accident and was replaced by a look/sound-alike. They took song lyrics and album art out of context and came up with their own senseless conclusions. Basically what we’re seeing here. Now, if you are convinced by the style of “logical” reasoning of the Paul is dead hoax, I really can’t help you. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

Also, going back to the David Bowie quote. First of all, it’s David Bowie, which should be enough of an explanation for most people. Secondly, that’s like taking Edgar Allan Poe’s morbid inspiration for literature and applying it to all short story authors. It doesn’t work. Generalizations don’t work for any kind of art because people are different

Edit: Okay, here’s a little gem I dug up. Is this the line of reasoning you’re going to follow?

would the immense influence of freemasonry on classical music mean that Haydn (and others) is bad for your soul?

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

Dear CTA1967,

When you say that the late Pope John Paul II was a ‘fan’ of the above mentioned musicians, can you kindly define what you mean. Did he merely believe that the content of their songs had certain spiritual overtones and was thus worthy of reflection, perhaps as a possible ‘preparation for the gospel’ and the higher more nobler truths contained therein?

Why can’t he just like the sound of their music…?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Dear fellow posters,

It is an indisputable fact that the Devil and his forces have deeply invaded man’s social and cultural structures - and music has not been overlooked. The catalougue, and it could be extended, of musicians I have given above clearly demonstrates beyond any question the Satanic and occultic connections that regularly occur in the world of rock. Now this being the case how can we, as Christians, justify any involvement with it let alone champion it as a perfectly acceptable musical genre?

“Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them” (Eph. 5: 11).

“What fellowship can light have with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14).

The same way we have to justify involvement with all the other arts. Then again, perhaps that’s what you’re saying? Shun the arts completely (or at the very least censor and filter them to suit oversensitive standards)?

All you’ve done is give bad examples and that has never been a good case against anything. What you’re doing is no different from an anti-Catholic using the priest scandal as proof against the Church.

For a Christian to retain inward grace and holiness and yet at the same time enter voluntarily into intimate communion with the world, is as impossible as to combine light and darkness, holiness and sin, happiness and misery.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Given your definitions of light and dark? You’d be in for quite a surprise.

 

[Portrait]

Dear Joe 5859,

Thankyou for your thoughtful and balanced response.

Whilst I do appreciate your argument and the points that you make, I am afraid that I cannot concur with them. Nobody would seriously sugest that occultism is part of the music; however I am fully persuaded that the connection is clear and close and that there is no doubt that rock music is a powerful medium of its damaging philosophy.

This, however, is by no means the end of the matter. Rock music must have been held blameworthy for almost every evil under the sun, from atheism to rising crime statistics. One suspects that someone, somewhere might be on the verge of blaming it for bad weather or crop failure! Seriously though it is not too surprising that rock music receives a lot of disapprobation, for it has kept some rather Augean company over the years.

Drug abuse is an obvious example that comes to mind. Much of this can be traced to the emergence of the Flower Power movement of the nineteen-sixties. So many of the pop songs of that decadent era encouraged young people, to quote the slogan of drug guru Timothy Leary, to “turn on, tune in and drop out”, while others include drug related lyrics without comment - and the lead came from the top. Thus the Beatles record-breaking album ‘Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band’ was described by Time magazine as ‘drenched in drugs’. One of the songs on their 1967 album, ‘Magical Mystery Tour’, invited listeners to ‘Roll up your sleeve, roll up your sleeve, the magical mystery tour is coming to take you away’. Bob Dylan, who had an invitation to the Vatican, advocated ‘getting stoned’ in ‘Rainy Day Woman’, while his memorable song ‘Mr. Tambourine Man’ has been called ‘the best of the drugs songs’.

There can be no doubt that the pop music industry has played a major role in encouraging drug use in general and maijuana in particular. Addressing the second Annual International Music Conference, Paul G. Marshall, spokesman for a major record industry advertising company, said, ‘Record companies and music publishers have earned many millions of dollars from records extolling the virtues of drugs’.

Now in view of rock music’s unmistakable link with needles and pills should not a Christian, striving to keep himself “unstained from the world” (James 1: 27), give rock music a very wide berth?; are not the waters just too polluted and impure for him to bathe in without being morally tainted and corrupted? Sadly drugs, regardless of what anyone says, will always be a part of the rock scene and a necessary ingredient for many rock musicians. I am aghast that Catholics of all people are so acquiescent as regards all of this and so ready to run to rock’s defence. Surely they should be resolved to ‘expose’ its evils and dangers (Ephesians 5: 11).

I am truly sorry if this smacks of a ‘holier-than-thou’ witch hunt, but I make no apology for sounding like a moral crusader for I firmly believe that the whole rock music genre necesitates an aggressively critical appraisal.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[CTA1967]

Why are musicians always picked on? Can we go read a history textbook? I’m sure you’ll find just as much “demonic influence” in the lives of the Founding Fathers of America, for example. You may see them as wealthy, racist, sex-driven heretics. And yes, there were things like opium and hemp which were commonly used back then. Drugs didn’t magically appear in the sixties.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Now in view of rock music’s unmistakable link with needles and pills should not a Christian, striving to keep himself “unstained from the world” (James 1: 27), give rock music a very wide berth?; are not the waters just too polluted and impure for him to bathe in without being morally tainted and corrupted? Sadly drugs, regardless of what anyone says, will always be a part of the rock scene and a necessary ingredient for many rock musicians. I am aghast that Catholics of all people are so acquiescent as regards all of this and so ready to run to rock’s defence. Surely they should be resolved to ‘expose’ its evils and dangers (Ephesians 5: 11).

I am truly sorry if this smacks of a ‘holier-than-thou’ witch hunt, but I make no apology for sounding like a moral crusader for I firmly believe that the whole rock music genre necesitates an aggressively critical appraisal.

What you’re giving is nothing more than paranoid speculation and, yet again, more bad examples that has absolutely done nothing to address the question “What makes rock inherently evil?” Lyrics and musicians are by no means an answer for they do not define the genre. It’s the style. They, the musicians, just play it. It’s them who add bad lyrics (and may I add that lyrics themselves are up to varying interpretations regardless of the composer’s intention as evidenced by you and many other people who attempt to twist lyrics into something demonic regardless if it can be seen otherwise).

P.S.

Many people employed vices to invoke their creative moods. Take Edgar Allen Poe for example. They say he wrote best when he was drunk!

 

[CTA1967]

I am truly sorry if this smacks of a ‘holier-than-thou’ witch hunt, but I make no apology for sounding like a moral crusader for I firmly believe that the whole rock music genre necesitates an aggressively critical appraisal.

Speaking of which, the Salem witch trials were partially caused by people eating rye bread made with a fungus that was an early form of LSD. Fun fact of the day. :hypno: And just to make myself clear, I am not in support of recreational drug use, nor are most posters on CAF.

With the examples you’ve given us, you might as well “witch hunt” all of history and the whole world. I apologize if rock musicians in general (which is a useless phrase, given the broad perception of “rock” music) aren’t as perfect as you think they should be. There are many people in all other walks of life who are just as bad or worse.