Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

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In my own opinion of what I can tell from that excerpt, I think Ratzinger is painting the issue a bit too black and white. I don’t think a blanket statement like that is justifiable for all cases, especially when rock music is very loosely defined (even seems to include stuff like “Cans and Brahms” by Yes, which is an excerpt from Brahms’ fourth symphony played by overdubbed electric keyboards). And a diferent opinion was expressed by Pope John Paul II, who was a fan of musicians such as Bob Dylan, Bono, and BB King. 😛
That’s the problem with taking quotes out of context. I think some people refer to this quote as though it’s the introductory thesis paragraph to Ratzinger’s systematic essay “Against Rock n’ Roll”. That’s not the case. This is in his book on the liturgy, particularly in his chapter on music and the liturgy. He is trying to convey the proper place of music in worship. Thus he refers to this as a counterexample. I don’t think we can take this as an unequivocal condemnation of rock music. That’s taking his words to mean more than he intends, IMO.
 
That’s the problem with taking quotes out of context. I think some people refer to this quote as though it’s the introductory thesis paragraph to Ratzinger’s systematic essay “Against Rock n’ Roll”. That’s not the case. This is in his book on the liturgy, particularly in his chapter on music and the liturgy. He is trying to convey the proper place of music in worship. Thus he refers to this as a counterexample. I don’t think we can take this as an unequivocal condemnation of rock music. That’s taking his words to mean more than he intends, IMO.
I do not think this is a very context-dependent statement:
[Pop music] has to be described as a cult of the banal. “Rock,” on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions.
Should Catholics be a part of a “cult of the banal” or express “elemental passions?”
 
What if scary heavy metal songs or sexy pop tunes and even mysygonistic raps have no supernatural connections at all?
What if the devil has no supernatural connections either? What if the devil does not exist? What if the devil is not supernatural at all?
 
What if the devil has no supernatural connections either? What if the devil does not exist? What if the devil is not supernatural at all?
Oh please. That’s completely unrelated to what was said.

Just because the music is played on guitars at a faster tempo than other music it’s Satan’s?

It just sounds like this is more superstition than anything real. Obviously, if it’s some Black Sabbath song that curses God and blatantly worships Satan or something than that’s bad. But if the lyrics are talking about something that isn’t BLATANT satanism, then I think it’s alright. Even if it is some blatantly satanic song, I don’t think any REAL harm would come of it for most people. But i doubt any Catholic would really want to listen to something like that in the first place. But again, i don’t think it would cause any harm anyway…you have to be pretty weak minded to be influenced enough by a rock band to start worshiping satan…
 
youtube.com/watch?v=1QP-SIW6iKY

This is a video of the band Metallica performing “Enter Sandman” in Moscow in 1990.

The song is a powerful, compelling and terrifying little ditty about the fear of death.
It also gets kinda silly during an over-the-top pseudo-ominous spoken passage.

But that’s not why that sea of listeners is going crazy.
It’s because they are celibrating their freedom from the Communist government that ruled that city for decades and forbade certain kinds of music along with some art, literature and all forms of worship.

If you are looking for evidence of Satan on earth you are barking up the wrong tree.
Look for instruments of evil in politicians.
Leave the guitar player alone.
 
In re the Ratzinger quote- “banal” is not immoral in any sense, just a synonym for boring. It’s not a particularly interesting from of music, but not wrong.
The “elemental passions” are not wrong, either; St Thomas argues that it only becomes immoral when a passion takes precedence over reason. After all, hunger is an elemental passion too, but it only becomes Gluttony when the passion is in extreme: in some way or degree that is excessive.
 
I do not think this is a very context-dependent statement:Should Catholics be a part of a “cult of the banal” or express “elemental passions?”
In re the Ratzinger quote- “banal” is not immoral in any sense, just a synonym for boring. It’s not a particularly interesting from of music, but not wrong.
The “elemental passions” are not wrong, either; St Thomas argues that it only becomes immoral when a passion takes precedence over reason. After all, hunger is an elemental passion too, but it only becomes Gluttony when the passion is in extreme: in some way or degree that is excessive.
Thank you. That would be my answer as well. 🙂

The difficulty I have with calling all rock music evil is that I fail to see the unifying factor that unites all rock music. What common thread can one point to and say that is the source of evil? Is the guitar evil? Just the electric guitar? Is there a certain musical time signature that belongs to Satan? (But then, all rock music does not follow the same beat or the same musical time signature). It seems that, whatever you point to is either (a) also present in other genres of music or (b) not present in every rock band.

Any statetment that would lump together the Beatles and Black Sabbath, Marillion and Marylin Manson, Simon & Garfunkle and Slayer all in the same category and unilaterally condemn them seems like a bit of a stretch to me. 🤷

In order to logically defend the position that rock is evil, I think one inevitably has to make a claim that in untenable somewhere down the line.
 
Right, words like “banal” are expressions of opinion (pop music is also very loosely defined; compare Frank Sinatra to Miley Cyrus). And to add to that, there is an entry in the Catechism on music which does not consist of opinions, and nowhere does it mention specific musical genres.

Concerning the opinions of Church leaders, here is an Ask an Apologist from a while back: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342339&highlight=ratzinger
Analogously, as a high-ranking cardinal for over twenty years, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger often had attributed to him such eyebrow-raising opinions that rock music is a “vehicle of anti-religion” (source) and that Buddhism is an “autoerotic spirituality” (source). As Pope Benedict XVI, he has either avoided offering personal opinion or taken great pains to label it as “personal opinion” and not Church teaching.
By the way, I find the musical structures of composers such as Stravinsky (Yes-ish), Debussy (Gensis-ish), and Shostakovich (Queen-ish) uncannily similar to progressive rock. Let’s rant about them as well. 👍
 
Oh please. That’s completely unrelated to what was said.

Just because the music is played on guitars at a faster tempo than other music it’s Satan’s?

It just sounds like this is more superstition than anything real. Obviously, if it’s some Black Sabbath song that curses God and blatantly worships Satan or something than that’s bad. But if the lyrics are talking about something that isn’t BLATANT satanism, then I think it’s alright. Even if it is some blatantly satanic song, I don’t think any REAL harm would come of it for most people. But i doubt any Catholic would really want to listen to something like that in the first place. But again, i don’t think it would cause any harm anyway…you have to be pretty weak minded to be influenced enough by a rock band to start worshiping satan…
Is “blatant satanism” the only sin you can commit??? No. Something as influencial as music shouldn’t be taken lightly in my opinion. Most times, you don’t even realize you’re being affected. The Bible says to think on good and pure things. I know not all rock music is bad (I’m a huge fan of a certain rock/heavy metal artist) but alot of it is very negative. I know this because I used to listen to some pretty awful stuff. I didn’t even realize what it was doing to me. I now judge carefully on what is worth listening to. I hope you do the same.

Pax!
Nicole
 
Is “blatant satanism” the only sin you can commit??? No. Something as influencial as music shouldn’t be taken lightly in my opinion. Most times, you don’t even realize you’re being affected. The Bible says to think on good and pure things. I know not all rock music is bad (I’m a huge fan of a certain rock/heavy metal artist) but alot of it is very negative. I know this because I used to listen to some pretty awful stuff. I didn’t even realize what it was doing to me. I now judge carefully on what is worth listening to. I hope you do the same.

Pax!
Nicole
That really depends on the listener. I used to listen to a lot of emo rock (usually Simple Plan stuff). It really flowed well with the loneliness and anger I’ve felt back then and helped me release it. You can say it was some sort of emotional lubricant.

I still listen to such songs now, especially when I want to get into the minds of my characters (who pretty much consist of angsty anti-heroes :o:cool:).
 
Is “blatant satanism” the only sin you can commit??? No. Something as influencial as music shouldn’t be taken lightly in my opinion. Most times, you don’t even realize you’re being affected. The Bible says to think on good and pure things. I know not all rock music is bad (I’m a huge fan of a certain rock/heavy metal artist) but alot of it is very negative. I know this because I used to listen to some pretty awful stuff. I didn’t even realize what it was doing to me. I now judge carefully on what is worth listening to. I hope you do the same.

Pax!
Nicole
I just don’t think somebody can be affected by listening to other people TALK about sinning. I listen to Black Sabbath, Rob Zombie, etc. ( I stay away from heavy satanism such as Slayer, just because i wouldn’t want to hear that stuff anyway) but these bands have a lot of “deathy-occult-gross” lyrics and stuff. But in all my years of listening to them, i have yet to eat a baby or sacrifice a virgin. If anything, it just strengthens my intent to NOT do it. kind of a “if ozzy says it over and over again don’t do it” rule. Sometimes it’s nice to just listen to creepy evil lyrics. Same as sometimes it’s cool to watch a horror movie, but that doesn’t mean you’re gonna unconsciously be turned into a psychopathic killer. Things like that don’t influence you as strongly as you all are making them out to. The only thing I can think of is if somebody loved Ozzy Osbourne more than anything and wanted to be just like him. So they said “oh well he sings about this and that, so i should go out and DO this and that”. Which is something completely different and has nothing to do with subtle influences within the music. Also, somebody would probably already have to be pretty messed up at that point.
 
Right, words like “banal” are expressions of opinion (pop music is also very loosely defined; compare Frank Sinatra to Miley Cyrus).
One of Frank Sinatra’s most famous songs is called “Witchcraft.” It doesn’t get any more Satanic than that. 😃
 
In re the Ratzinger quote- “banal” is not immoral in any sense, just a synonym for boring. It’s not a particularly interesting from of music, but not wrong.
You neglect to mention “cult.” The full phrase was “cult of the banal.”
 
I could say people who are against 20th century music are part of the “cult of the scrupulous”. Using the word “cult” doesn’t make it a fact. And here is part of a post from the previous page, in case you missed it.
Concerning the opinions of Church leaders, here is an Ask an Apologist from a while back: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342339&highlight=ratzinger
Analogously, as a high-ranking cardinal for over twenty years, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger often had attributed to him such eyebrow-raising opinions that rock music is a “vehicle of anti-religion” (source) and that Buddhism is an “autoerotic spirituality” (source). As Pope Benedict XVI, he has either avoided offering personal opinion or taken great pains to label it as “personal opinion” and not Church teaching.
If you want to get technical, the Catholic Church can also be defined as a cult. 🤷
 
That really depends on the listener. I used to listen to a lot of emo rock (usually Simple Plan stuff). It really flowed well with the loneliness and anger I’ve felt back then and helped me release it. You can say it was some sort of emotional lubricant.

I still listen to such songs now, especially when I want to get into the minds of my characters (who pretty much consist of angsty anti-heroes :o:cool:).
Yes, a friend of mine does that too, whenever she is lonely or angry or depressed. I suppose it can help to get it all out, like hitting a punching bag, but just listening to that stuff for fun… I don’t know. Makes me uneasy. And just because it is not the happiest song in the world, it doesn’t make the song sinful. I’m talking about songs that are without a doubt glorifying sin.
I just don’t think somebody can be affected by listening to other people TALK about sinning. I listen to Black Sabbath, Rob Zombie, etc. ( I stay away from heavy satanism such as Slayer, just because i wouldn’t want to hear that stuff anyway) but these bands have a lot of “deathy-occult-gross” lyrics and stuff. But in all my years of listening to them, i have yet to eat a baby or sacrifice a virgin. If anything, it just strengthens my intent to NOT do it. kind of a “if ozzy says it over and over again don’t do it” rule. Sometimes it’s nice to just listen to creepy evil lyrics. Same as sometimes it’s cool to watch a horror movie, but that doesn’t mean you’re gonna unconsciously be turned into a psychopathic killer. Things like that don’t influence you as strongly as you all are making them out to. The only thing I can think of is if somebody loved Ozzy Osbourne more than anything and wanted to be just like him. So they said “oh well he sings about this and that, so i should go out and DO this and that”. Which is something completely different and has nothing to do with subtle influences within the music. Also, somebody would probably already have to be pretty messed up at that point.
I’m not saying if you listen to this, you’ll be turned into a demon. I’m just saying that a lot of times people don’t even realize the harm that is or could be done.
Think of it this way. By listening to something that glorifies sin and therefore, glorifies Satan, you are tolerating it. You’re unconsciously saying ‘hey, what’s the big deal? i’m not doing all that stuff.’ You focus on what you’re not doing instead of what you are doing. You’re tolerating Satan. Giving him room with the excuse that you are not obeying him. When Jesus was tempted in the desert, He didn’t say, “You know what, Satan? I’m not going to do what you’re telling me to do, but if you just want to hang out with me for a while, I’m cool with that.” No. He ordered Satan to leave. He refused to tolerate His worst enemy. Just like we should be doing.
I don’t know about you, but if something is making light of my King’s worst enemy, I will not just sit around and ignore it, much less dignify it with my attention!
 
If you want to get technical, the Catholic Church can also be defined as a cult. 🤷
Yes, indeed. In the present day popular culture, the word “cult” has unfortunately become practically synonomous with those freaky groups that commit mass suicide. The way the Church uses the term, though, “cult” basically means “the worshipping community” (as in the “Eucharistic cult” in CCC 1566).

I don’t think we need to read too much into Ratzinger’s choice of imagery, though. The point he’s making is that the pop/rock music culture is sort of a form of worship for some people.

I’ve been to rock/metal concerts before. I think Ratzinger definitely does have a valid point. Looking around at some of those concerts, it really does seem like this is “worship” for many people there.

But (I would argue) you could say the same thing about going to a pro-football game. For some football fans, sports is like “worship” for them. But I don’t think this means that we can say that rock (or football) is inherently evil and no good can come from listening to it. I think such a conclusion is beyond the scope of the point that Ratzinger is making.
 
Beatles all the way!
Although, songs like “All you need is love” and “We can work it out” are pretty immoral sounding…
Oh, by all means 😛
And “Let it Be”…because it’s definately not used as a gospel song or anything…
 
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