Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[BibleTruth]

The Sabbath vs Sunday worship thing can be wrapped up pretty easily. The vast majority of Christian churches recognize Sunday as the proper worship day for Christians. The SDA insisting on Saturday worship as the only right way reminds me of something my sainted mother once told me. She said “If ten men tell you you are drunk, you had better go lay down.” It’s time for the SDA to sleep it off!

Is that really your case…because the “vast majority of Christian churches recognize Sunday as the proper worship day”? Are you serious? Read Matthew 7:13-14 and see where following the crowd will lead you.

Maybe you didn’t read this quote from the Catholic church:

"We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible, we have the living Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, “yes”, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws…

“We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in the pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there is nothing in the Bible.” The Catholic Extension Magazine (Under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII) 1954

 

[BibleTruth]

Regardless of any sybolism in his vision John was using plain language in that scripture. That is for certain, and logic, and reason tell us he wasn’t refering to Saturday!

Any way Jesus said that he WAS the Sabbath…I take him at his word…and so should you.

Please show me where in the Bible Jesus said that He was the Sabbath…please.

What logic…what reason? In order to believe what you believe, you have to not agree with what the Bible says.

 

[BibleTruth]

Hi Andrew,

So am I correct in my understanding of what you say…that a true biblical baptism is complete immersion under water? So does it count if a Catholic goes swimming or dives under water? (and that question is merely to get you to clarify a biblical baptism, not to be sarcastic)

God bless all!!!

Hey Patrick,

According to the Bible…yes (in answer to the first question).

Acts 2:38 says that we should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. So if someone is swimming for recreation, I wouldn’t consider that in the name context of being baptized for the cleansing of their sins.

I mean, taking a shower sprinkles water on your head, but I don’t imagine you take that as being baptized. Ok, so I thought to add a bit of levity to our discussion.

Andrew

 

[BibleTruth]

I use the Duey Rhymes bible which is the oldest translation of the scripture in the world. St Jerome first translated the greek and hebrew texts in the 4th century. Your bible was put together by a heretical german priest in the 15th century.

Have you read it lately? It’s call the Douay-Rheims Bible. And unless you’re reading it in Latin, what you are reading was translated in the 16th and 17th centuries.

That Latin translation facilitated the church not wanting people to be able to read the Bible for themselves.

 

[judechild]

That Latin translation facilitated the church not wanting people to be able to read the Bible for themselves.

What? I’m sorry, but have we forgotten that there was a time before English was a world language; and long before Latin was a mostly dead one? In addition, most people couldn’t read their own language, so they couldn’t have read the scriptures anyway; latin gave a standard for the whole church to go by.

 

[BibleTruth]

What? I’m sorry, but have we forgotten that there was a time before English was a world language; and long before Latin was a mostly dead one? In addition, most people couldn’t read their own language, so they couldn’t have read the scriptures anyway; latin gave a standard for the whole church to go by.

I knew that one line would provoke a response.

If folks would respond like this to the blasphemous claims of the Catholic church we may actually get somewhere meaningful.

 

[greggy53]

Please show me where in the Bible Jesus said that He was the Sabbath…please.

What logic…what reason? In order to believe what you believe, you have to not agree with what the Bible says.

Book of Mathew

6 “But I tell you that there is here a greater than the temple. 7 And if you knew what this meaneth: I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: you would never have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.”

 

[happilycatholic]

Exodus 20:8-10 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work

 

[happilycatholic]

Ah…now we’ve gotten to the root of these issues. What we’re discussing are the two institutions that God established, but Satan has vigorously attacked…marriage and the Sabbath!

Marriage is a sacrament to catholics. What is it to you? Got divorce??

Christ broke bread on Sunday. We break bread on Sunday. When do you break bread? That’s rigtht. You don’t. Dead issue.

 

[BibleTruth]

Book of Mathew

6 “But I tell you that there is here a greater than the temple. 7 And if you knew what this meaneth: I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: you would never have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.”

So…how is this passage saying that Jesus is the Sabbath again?

 

[BibleTruth]

djconklin;5012950:

Like I said, call a Jew. Ask him if you’re keeping the Sabbath correctly. They’ll be glad to tell you you’re not.

You go to church and refrain from clocking in. That is not keeping the Sabbath. You shouldn’t be cooking. You shouldn’t be using lights or driving cars or causing anyone else to do so.

When will you admit you keep EGW’s version of the Sabbath?

Whose “rules” are those?

In seeing these responses, I can tell that I’ve labored in vain to post here because most of it appears to not even be read.

 

[BibleTruth]

Marriage is a sacrament to catholics. What is it to you? Got divorce??

Christ broke bread on Sunday. We break bread on Sunday. When do you break bread? That’s rigtht. You don’t. Dead issue.

Christ “broke bread” (in terms of communion) for the first time on a Thursday but that doesn’t give Thursday any spiritual significance. Just so you’re aware, not every time you see the breaking of bread in the Bible does it mean having communion.

God didn’t intend on marriages ever ending, but it was allowed under certain circumstances. Read 1 Corinthians 7 or Matthew 5:31-32 for some insight.

You know, HC, you’ve had a lot to say to us non-Catholics about being mean-spirited, but from what I’ve witnesses here, most of it has come from you. You duck the deeper issues and take pop shots here and there when it’s convenient for you, even speaking negatively about Andrea, who stated that English is not her first language. You haven’t stated anything that can be supported biblically and completely ignore when folks use the Bible (or history for that matter) to refute whatever you’ve said.

You keep mentioning Sunday and still haven’t responded to the claims of the Catholic church as being the body that attempted to change the observance of God’s holy day to Sunday. If it’s something I missed, maybe you can copy/paste it for me because I’ve searched and haven’t seen anything.

We were challenged to produce information that indicated that people worshiped on the true Sabbath through the 5th century and it’s been provided…without a response by you or “greggy”. Instead, you choose to zero-in on one line about baptism and ignore everything else. Why is that? We’re trying to have a meaningful discussion…maybe we can learn something we didn’t know…but you’re not holding up your end to support it.

 

[josie_L]

I knew that one line would provoke a response.

If folks would respond like this to the blasphemous claims of the Catholic church we may actually get somewhere meaningful.

Isn’t it true that SDAs believe we are the Whore of Babylon and our Pope the antichrist?

Blasphemous indeed, but not on our part.

 

[happilycatholic]

happilycatholic;5013637:

Whose “rules” are those?

Um, God’s rules as given to Moses.

In seeing these responses, I can tell that I’ve labored in vain to post here because most of it appears to not even be read.

I’ve read everything you’ve posted and like you, I choose what I want to respond to.

 

[happilycatholic]

happilycatholic;5013637:

Whose “rules” are those?

In seeing these responses, I can tell that I’ve labored in vain to post here because most of it appears to not even be read.

And yes, you’ve labored to pull people away from the catholic Church in vain. I wouldn’t want to be part of what you are a part of. Ever.

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
I sue a wide variety of transaltion backed up by reading it in the original Greek (for the NT; Hebrew for the OT) [fixed a misspelling]

Got proof? Where you there? Did you see him put money into his pocket? Got pics? What does the Bible say about bearing false witness against your neighbor?

Got proof? How do you know? Where you there on the judgment day?

Make up your mind; either he really did steal money (in which case we want to see the proof) or he didn’t (in which case why should anyone care about an empty opinion?)

I use the Duey Rhymes bible which is the oldest translation of the scripture in the world. St Jerome first translated the greek and hebrew texts in the 4th century. Your bible was put together by a heretical german priest in the 15th century.

Hmmm, I explicitly said that I “backed up by reading it in the original Greek (for the NT; Hebrew for the OT)” none of which Martin Luther, an ex-Catholic monk, wrote.

Every claim I made about what Batchelor said can be found on line.

It is such a big place–care to be more explicit? Note that I can give sources to support what I say.

An SDA asked me to watch his so-called seminars on “amazing facts.com” I stand by enerything I said he said.

And this person’s name would be?

The half-truthes, inferences and out right lies he’s spewed out about God’s Church are there to see.

Name them.

He claims that Christians didn’t start worshiping on Sunday until the 4th century,

When did he say this? In which of his seminars did he say that? It seems quite out-of-date with research since 1980 indicating that the Christians in Rome and Alexandria, in an effort to escape Roman persecution of the Jews who had revolted in about 135 A.D. changed their date of worship to Sunday. I highly doubt that you were watching a vid from before that time. How much hair did he have on his head?

(Whereas Catholics have the writings of 1st and 2nd century Christians, and the new testament to back our claim).

In the first place there is no evidence of worship on Sunday in the NT. As for the writings you refer to you may wish to be careful using them as a quide as some have been proven to be bogus.

He makes the claim that Constantine’s vision was false, his conversion false, but offers no evidence to support the claim!

It is rather common knowledge amongst scholars of that time frame that Constantine was using the Christian religion as a consolidating force for the empire. I seem to recall questions even being raised if he had converted even on his deathbed. Here is one source: pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/legitimization.html

The problem with the SDA bunch is that they can’t stand on their own beliefs.

Then you obviously don’t know SDA beliefs or teachings very well–they are grounded on Scripture; see adventist.org/beliefs/index.html

They have to bash the Catholics in order to give any meaning to their heresies.

That is pure unmitigated bunk.

 

[djconklin]

I wouldn’t want to be part of what you are a part of. Ever.

Likewise here; too many lies being told about the SDA church.

 

[BibleTruth]

Isn’t it true that SDAs believe we are the Whore of Babylon and our Pope the antichrist?

Blasphemous indeed, but not on our part.

Hello Josie,

I think one claiming to be like God is a fair description of blasphemy:

“The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God…Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of Heaven and of earth and of the lower regions…The Pope is at it were God on earth,…chief King of kings,…to whom has been entrusted by the omnipotent God directions…of the heavenly kingdom.” Lucius Ferraris, “Papa,” article 2 in his Prompta Bibliotheca (“Handy Library”), Volume 6 (Venice, Italy: Gaspar Storti, 1772), pp. 26-29. Latin. Reprinted (Rome: Press of the Propaganda, 1899)

Many (perhaps most) people (not just Seventh-day Adventists by the way) who’ve studied it believe that the Roman Catholic church/state is the woman of Revelation 17 and that the papacy is the antichrist power (based primarily on, but not limited to, Daniel 7). History revealed what the Bible prophesied to back up this understanding.

What is your understanding of who these biblical entities are? I’d genuinely like to know. I’d also like to know your thoughts on the statement made by Lucius Ferraris shown above.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[djconklin]

Exodus 20:8-10 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Why should you believe them over the Bible? What did the Jew tell you? How do you know that they told you the truth? Why would you believe someone who continues to deny that Jesus is the Christ?

You go to church

Lev. 23:3 as quoted above.

and refrain from clocking in.

Exod. Exodus 20:8-10 as given above.

That is not keeping the Sabbath.

On what basis?

You shouldn’t be cooking.

Says who?

You shouldn’t be using lights or driving cars or causing anyone else to do so.

Says who?

When will you admit you keep EGW’s version of the Sabbath?

Since it isn’t true, why should I admit to a lie?

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;5013840:

I wouldn’t want to be part of what you are a part of. Ever.

That much is clear.

My duty as a disciple of Christ is to share His gospel. The Holy Spirit is the one who does the convicting of people’s hearts. I trust that you realize that refusing the call of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.

You may not like me, the way I write or some of the things that I’ve said, but the truth is in God’s word. If you reject anything that I’ve said that comes directly from the Bible, you’re not rejecting me, you’re rejecting the word of God.

Andrew