Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[happilycatholic]

It was a feeble attempt at humor.

The point you’re missing is that Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for legalizing the Sabbath, which was not the original intent. It’s a day to delight in the Lord…to cast aside the world and focus solely on God. The Pharisees made it more miserable than anything else and that’s what Jesus was correcting them on.

Okay, are you serious?

Look you guys are so hung up on a day, you forget that its’ NOT JUST A DAY. The Sabbath was not about the day of the week. It was about REST. It’s so much more than what SDAs USE it for. The word Sabbath was used to describe more than the weekly day of rest, but you have taken Sabbath and turned it into what Ms. White wanted it to be.

I went into an SDA church where there was absolutely NO indication of God, Christ or anything to know it was a house of God. But…there was Sabbath written all over the walls in script as though Christ had been put on the back burner and the Sabbath had taken Christ’s place in the church instead of the other way around.

And you know what? I think that’s exactly it. With SDAs, the Sabbath has taken the place of Christ instead of the other way around and that bothers me everytime I walk into that church. I see nothing of Christ, but I see Sabbath, Sabbath, Sabbath.

This has gone from one argument to another and one insult to another and I’m quite frankly tired of it. It’s been done to death already.

You just continue to keep Ellen White’s version of the Sabbath and I’ll continue to practice the Christian faith the way Christ and His Apostles did 2000 years ago.

 

[josie_L]

Hello Josie,

I think one claiming to be like God is a fair description of blasphemy:

“The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God…Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of Heaven and of earth and of the lower regions…The Pope is at it were God on earth,…chief King of kings,…to whom has been entrusted by the omnipotent God directions…of the heavenly kingdom.” Lucius Ferraris, “Papa,” article 2 in his Prompta Bibliotheca (“Handy Library”), Volume 6 (Venice, Italy: Gaspar Storti, 1772), pp. 26-29. Latin. Reprinted (Rome: Press of the Propaganda, 1899)

Many (perhaps most) people (not just Seventh-day Adventists by the way) who’ve studied it believe that the Roman Catholic church/state is the woman of Revelation 17 and that the papacy is the antichrist power (based primarily on, but not limited to, Daniel 7). History revealed what the Bible prophesied to back up this understanding.

What is your understanding of who these biblical entities are? I’d genuinely like to know. I’d also like to know your thoughts on the statement made by Lucius Ferraris shown above.

Thanks,

Andrew

The Pope has I have always understood it is a representative of Christ with a singular authority to feed and tend the flock, loose and bind as per Jesus’s words, he is also known as the “servant of servants” far from the “God on Earth.” As for this Lucius Ferraris, ask me if I care what he “thinks” of what a Pope is or isn’t, I would rather you use our own Catechism to justify your position, if you can find anything that suggests what this Ferraris states, then and only then shall I believe you.

As for the biblical “whore of Babylon”, that could either be Jerusalem as it was then and/or the Roman empire.

And I have this to say of your heretical Ellen White and her prophecies:

" But even if we or an angel of heaven should preach a gospel other than the one
we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said,
so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you
acccepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

 

[BibleTruth]

Okay, are you serious?

Look you guys are so hung up on a day, you forget that its’ NOT JUST A DAY. The Sabbath was not about the day of the week. It was about REST. It’s so much more than what SDAs USE it for. The word Sabbath was used to describe more than the weekly day of rest, but you have taken Sabbath and turned it into what Ms. White wanted it to be.

I went into an SDA church where there was absolutely NO indication of God, Christ or anything to know it was a house of God. But…there was Sabbath written all over the walls in script as though Christ had been put on the back burner and the Sabbath had taken Christ’s place in the church instead of the other way around.

And you know what? I think that’s exactly it. With SDAs, the Sabbath has taken the place of Christ instead of the other way around and that bothers me everytime I walk into that church. I see nothing of Christ, but I see Sabbath, Sabbath, Sabbath.

This has gone from one argument to another and one insult to another and I’m quite frankly tired of it. It’s been done to death already.

You just continue to keep Ellen White’s version of the Sabbath and I’ll continue to practice the Christian faith the way Christ and His Apostles did 2000 years ago.

The issue of the Sabbath goes beyond the day of the week. The reality is that in keeping the Sabbath holy, we learn to keep ourselves holy throughout the week. Just as the Sabbath was sanctified for a holy purpose as we read in the Ten Commandments, we are to be set apart (sanctified) for a holy purpose as seen in 2 Timothy 1:8-9. I’ve stated words to this effect here already but you must have missed them. If you’ve read anything I’ve posted you will see that I firmly acknowledge that without Christ, we are all worthless and what we would think to be “Sabbath-keeping” would merely be “Saturday-keeping”.

Just face it…you don’t want to accept the truth of the Sabbath so you continue to attack it. It’s OK…I understand. Some will need to see the events of Revelation unfold before they leave Babylon and enter into God’s truth. I just pray that you’re given that opportunity.

 

[Soutane]

The issue of the Sabbath goes beyond the day of the week. The reality is that in keeping the Sabbath holy, we learn to keep ourselves holy throughout the week. Just as the Sabbath was sanctified for a holy purpose as we read in the Ten Commandments, we are to be set apart (sanctified) for a holy purpose as seen in 2 Timothy 1:8-9. I’ve stated words to this effect here already but you must have missed them. If you’ve read anything I’ve posted you will see that I firmly acknowledge that without Christ, we are all worthless and what we would think to be “Sabbath-keeping” would merely be “Saturday-keeping”.

Just face it…you don’t want to accept the truth of the Sabbath so you continue to attack it. It’s OK…I understand. Some will need to see the events of Revelation unfold before they leave Babylon and enter into God’s truth. I just pray that you’re given that opportunity.

Smells like proselytizing to me and you’re coming perilously close to the "whore of Babylon"slander that we will NOT tolerate.Your faith is predicated upon dissing the Catholic Church wherever and whenever possible.Ellen Gould White was one of the False Prophets that Christ warned us about.

 

[BibleTruth]

The Pope has I have always understood it is a representative of Christ with a singular authority to feed and tend the flock, loose and bind as per Jesus’s words, he is also known as the “servants of servants” far from the “God on Earth.” As for this Lucius Ferraris, ask me if I care what he “thinks” of what a Pope is or isn’t, I would rather you use our own Catechism to justify your position, if you can find anything that suggests what this Ferraris states, then and only then shall I believe you.

As for the biblical “whore of Babylon”, that could either be Jerusalem as it was then and/or the Roman empire.

And I have this to say of your heretical Ellen White and her prophecies:

" But even if we or an angel of heaven should preach a gospel other than the one
we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said,
so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you
acccepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

Maybe the words of one of your popes will be a better reference for you (even though you can look up Lucius Ferraris in the Catholic Encyclopedia):

“We [the Popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, translated in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 304

The official title of the pope, Vicarius Filii Dei means “Vicar of the Son of God” or “In place of the son of God”.

Ellen White refers to the Bible in her work; she doesn’t attempt to take the place of Christ. I know I run this risk of this being the only statement that someone responds to out of this entire post, but oh well…

Please cite biblical references as to why you think Revelation 17 is talking about Jerusalem. You’re definitely getting warm by claiming it could be the Roman Empire but please realize this is the same power as indicated in Revelation 13:1-10. Revelation 13:1-2 ties this power to Daniel 7:4-8 so you’ll have to dig a bit deeper to know for sure.

 

[BibleTruth]

Smells like proselytizing to me and you’re coming perilously close to the "whore of Babylon"slander that we will NOT tolerate.Your faith is predicated upon dissing the Catholic Church wherever and whenever possible.Ellen Gould White was one of the False Prophets that Christ warned us about.

I’m sorry…who are you, again? Under what authority are you NOT tolerating anything? Do you have anything to offer to this discussion or are you just chiming in with negativity towards Ellen White…someone whose work I’d guess you’ve never read or studied?

My faith is based on God’s word and as a Seventh-day Adventist, I share the three angel’s message which includes the gospel of Jesus Christ as well as warning people to not take the mark of the beast once it’s offered.

 

[josie_L]

Maybe the words of one of your popes will be a better reference for you (even though you can look up Lucius Ferraris in the Catholic Encyclopedia):

“We [the Popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, translated in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 304

As per the Catechism:

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.”[402] “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”[403]

894 “The bishops, as vicars and legates of Christ, govern the particular Churches assigned to them by their counsels, exhortations, and example, but over and above that also by the authority and sacred power” which indeed they ought to exercise so as to edify, in the spirit of service which is that of their Master.[426]

From the Glossary at the back of the Catechism:
Vicar of Christ: A title given to St. Peter, head of the Twelve Apostles and to his successors;, the Popes; “vicar” means one who stands in for or acts for another.

The official title of the pope, Vicarius Filii Dei means **“Vicar of the Son of God” **or “In place of the son of God”.

No the official title of the Pope is “Vicar of Christ”

Ellen White refers to the Bible in her work; she doesn’t attempt to take the place of Christ. I know I run this risk of this being the only statement that someone responds to out of this entire post, but oh well…

She is a false prophet.

Please cite biblical references as to why you think Revelation 17 is talking about Jerusalem. You’re definitely getting warm by claiming it could be the Roman Empire but please realize this is the same power as indicated in Revelation 13:1-10. Revelation 13:1-2 ties this power to Daniel 7:4-8 so you’ll have to dig a bit deeper to know for sure.

I will not cite anything.

 

[Soutane]

I’m sorry…who are you, again? Under what authority are you NOT tolerating anything? Do you have anything to offer to this discussion or are you just chiming in with negativity towards Ellen White…someone whose work I’d guess you’ve never read or studied?

My faith is based on God’s word and as a Seventh-day Adventist, I share the three angel’s message which includes the gospel of Jesus Christ as well as warning people to not take the mark of the beast once it’s offered.

I repeat you are coming perilously close to slandering the Catholic Faith by employing the words,Babylon-code for whore of Babylon a libel upon the Catholic Faith which you can be banned for.The mark of the Beast as in Catholicism?Vicarius Filii Dei is NOT an official title of the Pope,however it is one manufactured by EGW to fit the number 666.Strange how the false prophetess Ellen Whites name equals 666.

 

[Soutane]

nab

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Yes; for example, look at various translations of Col. 2:16-17. If they have a “what” in vs. 16 it is wrong (there’s no support for it in the Greek ) andthen in vs 17 if it doesn’t endwith “but the body of Christ” it is wrong–same reason.

Gabriel of 12;
Tisk, Tisk, Tisk, again your mutilation of the scriptures have no bearing on the translation. The translation is to translate the thought and teaching of the subject, not your mutilation of the Greek or Latin language. Your scholastic scripture interpretation is way off the scriptural content being expressed.

djconklin;
Christianity didn’t come into existance because of translators.

Gabriel of 12;
I have no idea what you mean by that statement; other than who would disagree with it?

djconklin;
BTW, did you know that the Vulgate was the first translation?

Gabriel of 12;

You are in error again, technically the first translation was the “Septuagint” the Hebrew to the Greek translation.

The Vulgate was translated by a Roman Catholic Saint by the name of St. Jerome, who translated the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Canon books of the bible into the “Vulgar language” (Latin) thus “Vulgate”. And yet SDA’s in the 20th century conflict their teachings with this Heavy Weight of a biblical scholar, who was fluent in all three languages. In fact the Jews went to visit St.Jerome in the desert to consult their own Hebrew language and translations.

Something about “Apostolic” Tradition continued in the Roman Catholic St. Jerome.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

One more thing to add.

I am sorry for my “sin of ignorance” but who would know that this is needed for I never ever read in the Bible for such a practice. Intercession of prophets is only done in Catholic church. None of the apostles practiced anything as such. If I am wrong I wish you would enlighten me with Biblical verse where it is clear that any of the apostles used someone else for the intercession besides Jesus Christ. But have it your way in your life and I feel sorry for you doing it . I will glorify my Lord Jesus Christ,give Him the place in my life as He deserves, I will come directly to Him in my prayers ,who can be greater than Him. He is my Savior ,He gave His life for my sins ,He is my King my all.I do not need anyone besides Him to intercede for me. Look in Bible and let me know if I am telling something wrong.I can prove my point but I do not see you proving yours.

If you want something more to discuss I would recommend to all watch Walter Veith,he used to be a Catholic…I recommend these videos on Youtube and if you do watch do not comment on it if you did not see it all and check the things for yourself. All the things we discuss here are in his many videos.
Seventh day Adventist or Papacy Part 1 of 5
Papacy Admitt SDA is Truth

There are many others but if you are willing and not scared to watch you can start with these.

Gabriel of 12;

Well first of all, it is you who are making the false claims here; Give me a tradition of men that Catholics follow instead of God, I ask you for the third time now? Secondly; there are two aspects of your accusations that you have yet to prove biblically; One the Church you subscribe to is not biblical, or not recorded in scripture namely SDA’s. Two the “bible alone” theology is a man made theology of which you confess following and believing, but as you claim as a signature of belief, this “bible alone” theology is not recorded in sacred scripture, so it is you who follows man made traditions not the Catholic church.

Can you give biblical proof that the “Bible alone” is all one needs for salvation, and where is it in scripture that teaches the “bible alone” theology? Can you give a biblical scripture that states the SDA church is what Jesus built his church upon?

If you can’t answer these? then give me a man’s tradition that Catholics follow instead of God, and maybe I can reveal these misunderstanding of Apostolic Catholic teachings from Sacred Scripture for you?

Enclosing about the OT Saints, at the Transfiguration Mark 9:2-5, the 3 apostles sought to build three tents one for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, why would Peter do such a thing to give such honor to dead men sleeping as SDA’s believe?

Peace be with you

 

[andrea3710]

And I have this to say of your heretical Ellen White and her prophecies:

If we are about to talk about E.White who disclosed the truth behind the Roman Catholic Church then I should address the doings of the church she exposed…
You want more brutal truth you will have more brutal truth for which I am sorry but ashamed should be the ones who did the evil things not the ones who expose them. Someone called the Pope the one who presents Christ on Earth if that would be so I would reject Christ right this very minute but I know the Pope represents a man made religion and shelters many evil doers behind the screen. And here some links to the interesting readings and some pictures…
coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/03/24/paedophile-priest-puts-catholic-church-in-high-court-92746-23215935/
Catholic Order Jolted by Reports That Its Founder Led a Double Life nytimes.com/2009/02/04/us/04legion.html?_r=1

topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church_sex_abuse_cases/index.html

Here we can see that the cases I above mentioned are not isolated but it rather seems that it is like epidemics spread on many leaders of the church,there were cover ups. So any comparing of the Pope with Christ is not obvious.But I have more…
Report: Catholic Church, Police Blasted for Sex Crimes Coverups
americanchronicle.com/articles/view/3268
I am sorry if what I posted here insults some but the works of the church insults the victims.

examiner.com/x-1960-LA-City-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m2d28-Pedophiles-are-now-empowered-thanks-to-the-Catholic-Church

This are not mine words but come from the article with the above link and it is so clear that the highest church officials are up to their necks involved in crime and if some are not personally involved and actually did the crime they are responsible for cover up…I would ask myself where all the money church collects goes? …“Next week in L.A. there will be yet another hearing where the Church is fighting the plaintiffs over release of files from the July 2007 settlement. That’s right July 2007. The Church has been evading release of files they agreed to release as part of that settlement more than 18 months ago. The hearing this Thursday hopefully will be the last, and the process of sending files to a mediating judge for review will proceed.
Yes, you heard right, the Church, acting more like an organized crime cell - is fighting release of files even to a mediating judge for in camera review, meaning no one but that one judge would see the files, and then decide if they should be released as part of the settlement. The July 2007 settlement.
The Church has a bottomless wallet full of cash that it uses to prevent anyone from finding out the true extent of its crimes.”

cont…

 

[andrea3710]

So,would anyone trust their Salvation to these people and be led by their teachings?
images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lavrai.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/donaldmcguireap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lavrai.com/blogs/2008/10/24/vatican-catholic-church-keeps-churning-out-pedophile-priests/&usg=__Te-6of1ZSvhQB3b_NolK6emD4wU=&h=453&w=340&sz=25&hl=en&start=25&um=1&tbnid=jCdSJtGvDxABvM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcatholic%2Bchuch%2Band%2Bits%2Bcrimes%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swissinfo.ch/xobix_media/images/keystone/2008/keyimg20080121_8647099_0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Church_admits_complicity_in_sex_abuse_case.html%3FsiteSect%3D106%26sid%3D8648354%26cKey%3D1200989068000%26ty%3Dst&usg=__3nm68pNsDgvq_e8wlzzgvLjwUa4=&h=210&w=277&sz=15&hl=en&start=60&um=1&tbnid=2-SRkLCcwng5kM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcatholic%2Bchuch%2Band%2Bits%2Bcrimes%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2002/04/05/image505467x.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/22/eveningnews/main506916.shtml&usg=__rbPFnG8jn6iZLfonj5z-A-Vhv48=&h=278&w=370&sz=14&hl=en&start=97&um=1&tbnid=tyRxRiCSb_mICM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcatholic%2Bchuch%2Band%2Bits%2Bcrimes%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26start%3D80%26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+crimes&ndsp=20&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&start=100&um=1

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+crimes&ndsp=20&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&start=100&um=1

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://esoriano.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/ce-nosalvation.jpg&imgrefurl=http://esoriano.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-roman-catholic-church-is-not-the-true-church-of-god/&usg=__hqhxB9wMEAzcEl-kV6rIyBQopJA=&h=287&w=500&sz=146&hl=en&start=106&um=1&tbnid=jUK1pGjyb9U-wM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcatholic%2Bchuch%2Band%2Bits%2Bcrimes%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26start%3D100%26um%3D1
Millions of Catholics have died in the past believing that there is such a gory place called limbo: But now, to the surprise of the world, the present pope discarded the doctrine of limbo and threw it into the vault of oblivion in the Vatican City.
So here is one prove that this is men made religion,based on human doctrines.Today we have limbo tomorrow we do not for this Pope does not think so-it is a battle of opinions.Ridiculous! So previous popes let people live in darkness to that knowledge,did the live in darkness as well and they are as person said here those who represent Christ? There is a confusion in their doctrines only because it is not based on the Bible.

metro.co.uk/home/article.html?in_article_id=20616&in_page_id=1

Here is then the thing about indulgences,person here believed he was defending the doctrines of the church but in case he buried them.

catholic.com/library/Myths_About_Indulgences.asp

Myth 3: A person can “buy forgiveness” with indulgences.

The definition of indulgences presupposes that forgiveness has already taken place: “An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven” (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1, emphasis added). Indulgences in no way forgive sins. They deal only with punishments left after sins have been forgiven.
…indulgences remit only temporal penalties, they cannot remit the eternal penalty of hell. Once a person is in hell, no amount of indulgences will ever change that fact. The only way to avoid hell is by appealing to God’s eternal mercy while still alive.

Here we see also corrupted man made doctrines that revolve around the money…where in the Bible anyone gave money for such a thing-for remission…Or where does it say that anyone has to pay for the remission of sins.This people will answer to God greatly.

Matthew 26;28 For this is my blood of the New Testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Hebrew 10:18 Now where remission of these is,there is no more offering for sin
Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that,through His name,whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.

We shall see what the God’s word thinks about money and it’s link to religion and faith.
Acts 8;20 But Peter said to him “Your money perish with you because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!”

• the gift of God means not only Holy Spirit but gift is Jesus blood he shed for us for remission of sins.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If we are about to talk about E.White who disclosed the truth behind the Roman Catholic Church then I should address the doings of the church she exposed…
You want more brutal truth you will have more brutal truth for which I am sorry but ashamed should be the ones who did the evil things not the ones who expose them. Someone called the Pope the one who presents Christ on Earth if that would be so I would reject Christ right this very minute but I know the Pope represents a man made religion and shelters many evil doers behind the screen. And here some links to the interesting readings and some pictures…
coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/03/24/paedophile-priest-puts-catholic-church-in-high-court-92746-23215935/
Catholic Order Jolted by Reports That Its Founder Led a Double Life nytimes.com/2009/02/04/us/04legion.html?_r=1

topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church_sex_abuse_cases/index.html

Here we can see that the cases I above mentioned are not isolated but it rather seems that it is like epidemics spread on many leaders of the church,there were cover ups. So any comparing of the Pope with Christ is not obvious.But I have more…
Report: Catholic Church, Police Blasted for Sex Crimes Coverups
americanchronicle.com/articles/view/3268
I am sorry if what I posted here insults some but the works of the church insults the victims.

examiner.com/x-1960-LA-City-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m2d28-Pedophiles-are-now-empowered-thanks-to-the-Catholic-Church

This are not mine words but come from the article with the above link and it is so clear that the highest church officials are up to their necks involved in crime and if some are not personally involved and actually did the crime they are responsible for cover up…I would ask myself where all the money church collects goes? …“Next week in L.A. there will be yet another hearing where the Church is fighting the plaintiffs over release of files from the July 2007 settlement. That’s right July 2007. The Church has been evading release of files they agreed to release as part of that settlement more than 18 months ago. The hearing this Thursday hopefully will be the last, and the process of sending files to a mediating judge for review will proceed.
Yes, you heard right, the Church, acting more like an organized crime cell - is fighting release of files even to a mediating judge for in camera review, meaning no one but that one judge would see the files, and then decide if they should be released as part of the settlement. The July 2007 settlement.
The Church has a bottomless wallet full of cash that it uses to prevent anyone from finding out the true extent of its crimes.”

cont…

Gabriel of 12;

What no scriptures to support your views? Just opinions and cases of men who are Catholic. I have a better example of the worst Pope in history; The first Pope Simon Peter himself of whom Jesus built his Church (Matthew 16:18) Can you believe this is recorded in scripture? Peter denied Jesus not once but thrice times? I dont know of any Pope or Catholic believer who ever did any worse of a crime than to deny Jesus 3x’s.

What you display is not the Catholic church but people who are Catholic acting in their humanity. I know you give so much Holiness credit to the Catholic populace is supposed to be Holy and Saintly, and many are, but truth be told here, Jesus built his church for sinners to save them not for the already saved.

What is missing in your understanding of what Church Jesus built. The body of Jesus Christ is fully human and fully divine. Its human factors are what you pass judgement on, but the divinity of the Catholic Church is Jesus himself, who promised to never leave her and will always be with his Catholic church.

You appear to be confusing of what belongs to ceasar and of what belongs to God alone. This what belongs to God his Catholic church cannot be seperated from him ever, for we are the body of Jesus Christ on earth and Jesus is the head in heaven this makes us One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church holding to One Lord, One baptism, One faith in One Truth Jesus Christ.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So,would anyone trust their Salvation to these people and be led by their teachings?

Gabriel of 12;
You would be a fool to trust your salvation to any man. But the bible clearly states Jesus built his church, not some women or man built it? I trust my salvation on what Jesus built and is still here today in the Catholic church. If passing judgement on the members of the Catholic church, that is your business between you and God himself. But as for me, I trust Jesus and build my house on his “Rock”.

andrea;
Millions of Catholics have died in the past believing that there is such a gory place called limbo: But now, to the surprise of the world, the present pope discarded the doctrine of limbo and threw it into the vault of oblivion in the Vatican City.

Gabriel of 12;
That is not correct andrea; Limbo was never a doctrine, who ever decieved you of this false information, never be decieved again. Again “Limbo” was never and never will be a doctrine. Limbo was a term used to describe to souls of which no one had a full answer. Your sources took the term Limbo out of context, and falsely informed you it was a doctrine of the Catholic church, please be informed correctly here and never embarrass yourself of a false doctrine of limbo.

andrea;
So here is one prove that this is men made religion,based on human doctrines.Today we have limbo tomorrow we do not for this Pope does not think so-it is a battle of opinions.Ridiculous! So previous popes let people live in darkness to that knowledge,did the live in darkness as well and they are as person said here those who represent Christ? There is a confusion in their doctrines only because it is not based on the Bible.

Here is then the thing about indulgences,person here believed he was defending the doctrines of the church but in case he buried them.
Here we see also corrupted man made doctrines that revolve around the money…where in the Bible anyone gave money for such a thing-for remission…Or where does it say that anyone has to pay for the remission of sins.This people will answer to God greatly.

Matthew 26;28 For this is my blood of the New Testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Hebrew 10:18 Now where remission of these is,there is no more offering for sin.

Gabriel of 12;

Indulgences? The Catholic would say a great amen to the scriptures, no doubt about them, Jesus paid the price of our redemption. But the scriptures teach us to “Work out our salvation with fear and trembling” (see Philippians 2:12) So now that our redemption is paid for, what happens when we sin? Look what happened to King David when he fornicated and had a son, God forgave David for his sin, but God took away his son why? To shorten my explanation here “indulgence”. You see if you sin and deliberately broke your neighbors window out of anger against your neighbor, you confess your sin, and God will forgive you always, but who will pay for the broken window? Do you think Jesus will come down and pay for the window himself?

Let me explain; first of all it is well known that the German priests were selling indulgences not the Catholic church and this was corrected. Back to indulgence; consider a very calm still lake of water this will symbolize humanity, now if you throw a rock into the lake, this action symbolizes your sin, the sin or rock for illustration makes a splash indicating the interruption of your sin caused to humanity. But you confess your sin, and God will forgive you always. But the ripple effect of your sin continues to affect the calm waters of humanity, but you are not aware of the hurt your sin caused only God knows. This is where indulgence comes in. By praying, penance, making a sacrifice, giving alms to the poor, and other ways of making an indulgence free of course, helps pay for the damage your sin affects those around you directly or indirectly only God knows. An indulgence makes right what you have done wrong from your forgiven sin.

Making atonement for sin as I hope you are aware of is very biblical since the Old covenant and New covenant. The redemption Jesus paid for are for those who need redemption. Once the redeemed one falls into temptation which leads to mortal sin which can lead to death, has to repent and claim the blood of Jesus. So if you love your neighbor as yourself, and God with all your heart, mind and strength, then you would make some type of atonement in form of prayer, fasting or penance for the punishment and or repercussion’s from your sinful act. Unless now that Jesus Christ has redeemed you, you are without sin?

andrea;
We shall see what the God’s word thinks about money and it’s link to religion and faith.
Acts 8;20 But Peter said to him “Your money perish with you because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!”

• the gift of God means not only Holy Spirit but gift is Jesus blood he shed for us for remission of sins.

Gabriel of 12;

Tell me andrea? do you know the difference between redemption and salvation? I understand you are trying to corrolate money for paying for sins, which is not a Catholic teaching, but you are trying hard to prove it is, from a history that has already proven who the culprit were and the correction the Catholic Church did. There is no doubt in the body of Jesus Christ since Jesus walked the earth we had a Judas who betrayed Jesus to his face, and we had our first Pope Simon Peter deny our Lord 3x’s. But yet Jesus remained steadfast for his Catholic church of whom he (Jesus) built.

 

[andrea3710]

Gabriel of 12;

More and more you are revealing what kind of theology lies behind your words.
I am appalled by your statements.

Two the “bible alone” theology is a man made theology of which you confess following and believing, but as you claim as a signature of belief, this “bible alone” theology is not recorded in sacred scripture, so it is you who follows man made traditions not the Catholic church.

Sooner or later you will fall in the trap of your own words to me you already have but we are continuing this further…
So let us see what the Bible teaches about itself and what will be included in the last days in the battle between the right and wrong or better to say between powers of evil and good.
Revelation 20;4 tells us who were the God’s saints and why people who were following Satan killed them,what they did not like them and what was that they preached.
And I saw thrones and they sat on them and judgment was committed to them.And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the WORD OF GOD.
Revelation 6:9 tells us almost the same thing
1 John 2;14 …I have written to you young men because you are strong and the word of God abides in you…
1 John 2;5 But whoever keeps His word truly the love of God is perfected in him.By this we know that we are in Him.
I think there can’t be any clearer statement than this . I do not understand what do you mean when you say sacred scriptures? For me there is none sacred scripture besides the Bible,what about you?
I Thessalonians 2;13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing because when you received the word of God which you heard from us,you welcomed it not as the word of men but as it is in truth the word of God which effectively works in you who believe.

Colossians 1;25 Whereof I am made a minister according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God.
Ephesians 6;17 And take the helmet of salvation the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.
Luke 11;28 …Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it
Luke 8;21 But He answered and said to them, My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.
It is seen that Jesus himself fought Satan with the Word of God :
Luke 4;4 But Jesus answered him,saying It is written,Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word of God"
Amen to that.So I address you to eat of that bread too because your life may depend on it,actually it will but I will let you come to that conclusions in the things that lie ahead.

Can you give a biblical scripture that states the SDA church is what Jesus built his church upon?

I am not sure how many times I am writing this but OK I will do it again and again and again…I never said that SDA is mentioned anywhere in the Bible as the one who is saved,neither is Catholic neither is Anglican or any other denomination is mentioned in the Bible. Am I clear on that one. It says in the Bible that the ones that will be saved are those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS AND KEEP THE FAITH OF JESUS. Do you think if person declares " I am a Catholic, or I am SDA " that that person is saved because of that declaration and because of that person belongs to some denomination. That is nonsense. Nowhere in Bible says anything as such. Each individual will have to stand before God and each one will go through the fire (not literal although we are not certain that stakes will not "work"again) so the things each one of declares will be tested practically. I liked one story very much. It was about some church,it can actually be any church. One day when people were praying to God group of men fully armed entered the church,wearing masks on their faces…and then they said to church members and to pastors or priests…Whoever is ready to die for Jesus stay inside and those who are not leave the premises. Only few left,many left including the church leaders. After they left the masked men took off their masks and said “Now that we got rid of hypocrites we can continue here”…
By the statement above that the ones who keep the commandments and keep faith of Jesus will be saved we see that invitation is open to everyone and it is not denomination that saves. Revelation 11;1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod.And the angel stood,saying-Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and THOSE WHO WORSHIP THERE.
We should observe the fruits that those who say that worship God produce and by their doing we can see whom they serve. And trust me I observe both with myself and with the others who claim to profess God.

 

[andrea3710]

cont…

Enclosing about the OT Saints, at the Transfiguration Mark 9:2-5, the 3 apostles sought to build three tents one for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, why would Peter do such a thing to give such honor to dead men sleeping as SDA’s believe

This statement shows how much you know the Bible and how much you dedicate your time reading it. Bible teaches us that Elijah,Moses and Enoch are not dead but alive. Where does it say in Bible that Elijah ever died?
Enoch…it says in the Bible that God took him. Moses died and was buried but later we read in the NT Jude 1;9 Yet Michael the archangel in contending with the devil when he disputed about the BODY of Moses dared not bring against him a reviling accusation but said “The Lord rebuke you”

So Bible speaks of these three men to be alive in the body others sleep and wait for resurrection. Another things,the verse in Mark you mention is clear when it says that when Peter suggesting building a tabernacle was afraid and did not know what to say. Jesus never said OK,go ahead and build it and we do not see they ever did actually Jesus told them not to say anything about what they saw and if they built the tabernacle it would not make the whole thing secretive.

If you can’t answer these? then give me a man’s tradition that Catholics follow instead of God, and maybe I can reveal these misunderstanding of Apostolic Catholic teachings from Sacred Scripture for you?

I will give you I already gave some above and also when I discussed indulgences so you can check it all out.Traditions of men are one day like this and another like that,according to feelings of men or their personal thoughts and that is a chaos. Word of God is firm and does not change so I feel safe with it.
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[andrea3710]

Tell me andrea? do you know the difference between redemption and salvation? I understand you are trying to corrolate money for paying for sins, which is not a Catholic teaching, but you are trying hard to prove it is, from a history that has already proven who the culprit were and the correction the Catholic Church did.

…I believe I gave you link to the Catholic website of the case with indulgences. It was catholic website and one of Catholic people was saying what he was saying. He never denied indulgences but justified them.Read again. Correction of the Catholic church ,what did they have to correct if they were always right? Come on. It seems they are excusing themselves these days one times too many…I wonder should they come to their church members now for confession of sins for it seems that those who have jail time to serve are worse sinners than the those who confessed to them. Such priests yet dared to be judges and say what the sentence for the sins of people should be and how many prayers they have to pray. That is a confusion my people. I am safe.When I come to my Jesus to confess my sins I know He is the only just and clean to forgive me and clean me of my sins.

 

[andrea3710]

There is no doubt in the body of Jesus Christ since Jesus walked the earth we had a Judas who betrayed Jesus to his face, and we had our first Pope Simon Peter deny our Lord 3x’s.

Peter understood His sin and it did not take him ages to confess His sin and he confessed for what he did not what others did. Another thing…what he did was between him and Jesus and nobody ever died for what he did and what Popes did we count in thousands of dead,most of those who did not see eye to eye with what Popes preached. Peter was the one who dies for His faith rather than he would kill someone else so we have here two different spirits or we can read fruits. And we should know them of their fruits. It was not one Pope who did these atrocities but more them.If I come with this atrocities I will clog the website with facts.

Maybe we should talk about the past readings in church in Latin. Why that? Who needed it to be read in Latin? It says in the Bible that when someone speaks in the church that person should be understood or he should be silent. I read that Pope thinks to bring that practice again into the church. Is not that nice. Where did they even come up with that practice? From Bible? I do not think so!
I already gave here bunch of examples. How much more do you need?

 

[andrea3710]

Gabriel of 12;

Tell me andrea? do you know the difference between redemption and salvation?

Yes,I do. Do you?