Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

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Sacred Scripture is exactly that. But, for almost 2,000 years, it has not been the sole rule of faith, not was it intended to be, or does it say that it is. It was assembled and put forth by the early church fathers who practiced Sacred Tradition, which was taught by Christ, alongside. For the sake of argument, let’s call the bible 50% of Catholic faith.

Make no mistake: Millions of Christians do extremely well with this 50%, and Catholics would do well to learn from their example. But, how can someone be fully Christian with only the bible? Were the first 380 years of Christians any less saved because they had no canon of scripture? Were the first 1,400 years of Christians any less saved because there was no bible in their homes?

The point being, go back into history. Way back. See how the fathers practiced. See how they handed on the Sacred Traditions. The bible is an irreplaceable part of our faith. But, it is far from all.

Christ’s peace.
I understand your point and I agree with it. But my point is that I don’t believe that the oral teachings of early Christians contradicted their writings. The entire New Testament was written after Jesus died. Many of the accounts of Jesus’ life recorded in the gospels were based on oral traditions. If the Old Testament says something, Jesus reiterated it and the writers of the New Testament (the leaders of the early church) reconfirmed it I would assume that to be the truth.

To me, any oral traditions that are in opposition to or outright say to disregard what the sources of our faith say, aren’t reliable. However, if they are in accordance with those sources then I’d have no reason to discredit them. If scripture says one thing and a newer source (a church, preacher, etc.) says something in complete opposition to that then one has to be right and one has to be wrong. They both can’t be coming from the same source (God). So either God didn’t inspire the Bible or he didn’t inspire post-Biblical doctrine that disagrees with the Bible.
 
I understand your point and I agree with it. But my point is that I don’t believe that the oral teachings of early Christians contradicted their writings. The entire New Testament was written after Jesus died. Many of the accounts of Jesus’ life recorded in the gospels were based on oral traditions. If the Old Testament says something, Jesus reiterated it and the writers of the New Testament (the leaders of the early church) reconfirmed it I would assume that to be the truth.

To me, any oral traditions that are in opposition to or outright say to disregard what the sources of our faith say, aren’t reliable. However, if they are in accordance with those sources then I’d have no reason to discredit them. If scripture says one thing and a newer source (a church, preacher, etc.) says something in complete opposition to that then one has to be right and one has to be wrong. They both can’t be coming from the same source (God). So either God didn’t inspire the Bible or he didn’t inspire post-Biblical doctrine that disagrees with the Bible.
Amen! 👍 If you find anything in Catholic doctrine that appear to contradict scripture, it’s that old bugaboo of private or incorrect interpretation. Scripture came from the church, the church did not come from scripture. Christ founded a church, and bestowed upon it all authority, just as He had been given all authority.

He and His followers were constantly accused of breaking the Sabbath. Was that sinful? Of course not, as God cannot break the Sabbath or sin in any way. He was, however, the new covenant, which may, indeed, give new meaning unto old observances, since the Jews had strayed from the true meaning of the law and the prophets. That was why he was sent, to bear witness to the truth. We are so close, my friend.

That we may be one.

Christ’s peace…
 
I have that book and I don’t recall any such thing being in there. Many people willfully misinterpret the Catholic view of the papacy as placing the pope on equal footing with Christ though, so it would not surprise me if Batchelor did the same thing. If it’s someone’s intention to bash the Catholic Church there are plenty of things that they can deliberately misinterpret in order to mislead people.

I imagine this is yet another case of an anti-Catholic railing against something that he hasn’t made an effort to understand or it’s a deliberate obfuscation of true Catholic doctrine. It’s tiresome how some folks will interpret words in the most damning way possible even if it means completely disregarding how they were intended by the speaker/writer.

In reading someone else’s words, one can either seek to learn the truth as the author understands it or one can simply seek to confirm their own prejudices. Books can have very different meanings depending on which approach the reader chooses. Fortunately, truth is truth and does not change just because someone chooses to disbelieve it.
GOOD POST. Doug Batchelor is a con artist who Fronts for the SDA church. Not all SDA’s are so vehemently and maliciously anti Catholic but there is a segment that is. They have regular seminars and try to recruit members. Many of the recruits are not well educated and fall fot the " Pitch" on Mr. Batchelor. WE all have to be stedfast and combat and proclaim the truth of the faith. Don’t be afraid to CONFRONT MR. BATCHELOR and his minions. !! do not be intimidated by the Evil one. Evil flourishes when it is not firewalled. Be Steadfast fellow Catholics! Point out their errors.
 
Regarding Pastor Doug Batchelor:
There is a very good book you should read concerning what Pastor Doug Batchelor says about the Catholic Church. That book is called the BIBLE!!! If you were to read it (although I doubt any good Catholic knows how to read a Bible) you’d find out that Doug Batchelor is absolutely 100% correct in what he says. God has the final say about who, what, when, where and why men are saved through the name of Christ.

Wake up and read the Bible!

:sleep:
 
“Dispite Bachelor’s “vicar of Christ” mischaracterization, the position of a “human” spokesman, and “vicar for Jesus”, is clearly seen in Jesus words to Peter. “I [Jesus, second person of the Blessed Trinity, the one whom ALL things were made] give YOU [Peter the one I call Rock] the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth [with these keys I give YOU] are bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose [with these keys] are loosed in heaven.”[Mt 16:18…] And we know Jesus kingdom will last forever and not even the gates of hell will prevail against His Church that He builds on Peter. Therefore, the position of chief spokesman for Jesus succeeds to all the popes.”

Wake up you sleeping Catholics… Jesus did NOT build His church on wimpy, vascillating Peter! He (Jesus) built His church on the statement that Peter made concerning who Jesus Christ is… "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16)

Jesus says to Peter, “You are Peter (Petros or small stones) and On THIS ROCK (Petra: large solid bedrock) I will build my Church…” (Matt 16: 17-19)

God did not build His Church on weak, fallen, sinful human beings. He built His Church on the truth in the Word of God!.
 
Regarding Pastor Doug Batchelor:
There is a very good book you should read concerning what Pastor Doug Batchelor says about the Catholic Church. That book is called the BIBLE!!! If you were to read it (although I doubt any good Catholic knows how to read a Bible)…

Wake up and read the Bible!
Wow. Let me congratulate you on your rhetorical skills. Nicely done my friend. That certainly woke me up. I’m sure that all my fellow Catholics will now fall in line. Even if they don’t, be of good cheer! Your following post in all boldface will certainly convince them.

There is no stronger argumentative technique than using bold or accusing your opposition of idiocy, biblical illiteracy and apostasy.

Again, excellent job.

Eric
 
Regarding Pastor Doug Batchelor:
There is a very good book you should read concerning what Pastor Doug Batchelor says about the Catholic Church. That book is called the BIBLE!!! If you were to read it (although I doubt any good Catholic knows how to read a Bible) you’d find out that Doug Batchelor is absolutely 100% correct in what he says. God has the final say about who, what, when, where and why men are saved through the name of Christ.

Wake up and read the Bible!

:sleep:
Good grief, another person who thinks Catholics don’t read the Bible.

I’ve got news for you. The Bible is read *out loud *during Catholic Mass: four readings from the Bible every Sunday, and three readings at every weekday Mass. During the course of three years, almost the entire Bible is read out loud at Mass. Can your church make the same claim?

And that’s just the readings! Prayers we say at Mass are soaked in scripture.

You might want to investigate just where you got the Bible from before you go attacking the Catholic Church. Just when and where was it decided that those 27 books (and only those 27) were New Testament scripture?

Wake up and investigate what the Catholic Church actually does and teaches! I’m sure it was unintentional, but your post bears false witness against us.

P.S. I’m Catholic, and I’ve read the entire Bible, cover to cover.
 
“Dispite Bachelor’s “vicar of Christ” mischaracterization, the position of a “human” spokesman, and “vicar for Jesus”, is clearly seen in Jesus words to Peter. “I [Jesus, second person of the Blessed Trinity, the one whom ALL things were made] give YOU [Peter the one I call Rock] the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth [with these keys I give YOU] are bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose [with these keys] are loosed in heaven.”[Mt 16:18…] And we know Jesus kingdom will last forever and not even the gates of hell will prevail against His Church that He builds on Peter. Therefore, the position of chief spokesman for Jesus succeeds to all the popes.”

Wake up you sleeping Catholics… Jesus did NOT build His church on wimpy, vascillating Peter! He (Jesus) built His church on the statement that Peter made concerning who Jesus Christ is… "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16)

Jesus says to Peter, “You are Peter (Petros or small stones) and On THIS ROCK (Petra: large solid bedrock) I will build my Church…” (Matt 16: 17-19)

God did not build His Church on weak, fallen, sinful human beings. He built His Church on the truth in the Word of God!.
As for the Petros/Petra argument, we’ve heard it all before, and it’s been soundly refuted. If you want to discuss it, I suggest doing a search and reading previous threads about it or opening a new thread. This thread is about Doug Batchelor, and shouldn’t be taken off topic.
 
Now, generally, I go out of my way to try not to be rude, however, I find it very interesting that the new poster calls himself/herself “jcwill25”. Jcwill…is that pronounced “J - swill”? I ask this question only because it certainly seems to be swill that he/she is spewing in these posts. Hmmm…
coincidence?
 
Greetings Sister Snowflake (talk about handles…)
please concentrate on the information in the post (Pastor Doug Batchelor). Your barbs simply reinforce your ignorant Catholic bias. The Bible, not the pope, is the truth; DEAL WITH IT!!!
 
Regarding Pastor Doug Batchelor:
There is a very good book you should read concerning what Pastor Doug Batchelor says about the Catholic Church. That book is called the BIBLE!!! If you were to read it (although I doubt any good Catholic knows how to read a Bible) you’d find out that Doug Batchelor is absolutely 100% correct in what he says. God has the final say about who, what, when, where and why men are saved through the name of Christ.

Wake up and read the Bible!

:sleep:
jcwill: you don’t know your Bible, or the Church that gave you the Bible.

Ever heard of Bibliolatry?

How did you become so wise as to argue against the True Church that Christ founded which is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth?

🤷
 
Greetings Sister Snowflake (talk about handles…)
please concentrate on the information in the post (Pastor Doug Batchelor). Your barbs simply reinforce your ignorant Catholic bias. The Bible, not the pope, is the truth; DEAL WITH IT!!!
Jesus is The Truth. Don’t worship the Bible!!!
 
Greetings Sister Snowflake (talk about handles…)
please concentrate on the information in the post (Pastor Doug Batchelor). Your barbs simply reinforce your ignorant Catholic bias. The Bible, not the pope, is the truth; DEAL WITH IT!!!
That Bible (by the way is a Catholic book) you have will not save you.
Here is what we Catholic’s believe. (Please read before you start the classic anti-Catholic triade of how we are pagans. The Catholic church is the Whore of Babylon. That we Catholic’s worship Mary, statues, stain glass, sheep, etc…)
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm.

And here is the Bible to go with it.
drbo.org/

Here is a good read on how you got that Bible.
geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/wherewegotthebible.html

God Bless!
 
Oops forgot this. Here is a link to the Bibles readings we have in our Weekly (Sunday) and our daily Mass. Yes we can go to Mass every day if we want!
usccb.org/nab/

And here is what we read in Mass today.
usccb.org/nab/readings/061508.shtml

One more thing Our Priest’s (Preacher, Paster, etc.) homily (preaching) during Mass is centered on those readings.

God Bless!
 
Oh, I am so forgetful. This might help you with understanding the Catholic Mass. davidmacd.com/catholic/mass.htm

This might be helpful as well…from the above website.

"Where’s the Bible in a Catholic Mass
Mass has two major parts : 1) Liturgy of the Word 2) Liturgy of the Eucharist
  1. Liturgy of the Word: Three Bible readings. OT, Psalm, NT, and a Gospel reading. Then and a Homily which comments on those readings. If I go to Mass every day, I get a lot of Bible.
  2. Liturgy of the Eucharist: Scripture, prayer, praise & worship - and then the Lord Himself appears and we come forward to meet Him and accept Him. Talk about a “Personal Relationship” with Jesus.
Other parts of the Mass include the Penitential Rite where we repent before the Lord and ask his forgiveness and mercy. The Gloria (on Sundays) which is praise to glorify God. (From Luke 2:14). Alleluia Acclamation (praise to God), prayers of intercessions (standing in the gap), and the Lord 's Prayer (Matthew 6:9)"

God Bless!

Oh yes one more thing…I can walk in to any Catholic Church on the Planet (there are a mess load of Catholic Churches all over the world since we are over 1 billion stong about 1/6 of the world population I think) And hear the same Bible readings that all my Catholic brothers and sisters hear for that day…Talk about one voice…
 
Doug Batchelor preaches and teaches from the Bible, which is the only reference of Scripture any Christian should need. He reads from the same Scriptures that Jesus partially taught from (i.e. the Old Testament) along with the New Testament. He openly admits to being a Seventh-day Adventist (he’s the pastor of an SDA church in Sacramento, CA) although his Amazing Facts ministry is not associated with any religious denomination.

It’s understandable that anyone feeling they’re under attack will naturally be on the defensive and respond accordingly. From any of his presentations I’ve heard, he clearly states that he’s not attacking anyone in particular as someone here has mentioned. With that said, however, it’s important to note that he only presents what’s written in the Bible. In addition to showing where the Catholic church is represented in prophecy (in Revelations 13:1-10), he also points to the United States in the same chapter (vs. 11-18) although he confirms his patriotism to this country.

In studying the Bible, it’s important to confirm Scripture with Scripture to get a better understanding of the truth. In one of the responses to this strain of messages, someone wrote that there are several Scriptures that confirm Sunday as the Lord’s Day. I just ask…please show me one. The only reference to “The Lord’s Day” is in Revelations 1:10, but that doesn’t indicate what day of the week that was, so no one can stake a claim to that being any one holy day of worship. However, when Jesus spoke of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8), he referred to himself being the “Lord, even of the Sabbath day” (the seventh day of the week…the day he customarily went to the Synagogue for worship). Additionally, in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:10), God says the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord. These are but two Old and New Testament references where God clearly indicates what day of the week was sanctified (set apart) as holy; see all of Hebrews 4 for additional truth.

For anyone who would try to use Colossians 2:14-16 as an abolishment of the seventh-day Sabbath, Paul was writing about Moses ceremonial laws (written on paper by Moses and done away with by the blood of Christ) and not God’s Moral Law (written on stone by God’s finger). Some may try to use Romans 14:5-6, but a closer look at this does in no way authorizes a change to the day of Sabbath observance. In reading a letter in the Catholic Extension Magazine, the Catholic Church “under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII” admits to making the change under their own authority…but this was never a commandment that was “Thus saith the LORD”, which should be where all of us get our direction and instruction.

I don’t agree with any religion basing their theology in anything written by humans, other than the divinely inspired Word of God (this includes SDAs, Mormons, etc.). But when something is clear in the Bible, I do find it difficult to see why there are so many different religions and denominations amongst followers of Christ, who was the object of the entire Bible. I believe there will one day be a unification of all of God’s people (because the Bible says there will) and we will all come together to worship Him in truth. Revelations 18:4 (KJV): And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God has sincere believers in all churches and I pray that we all seek Him for an understanding of His word and not the traditions of men (Mark 7:7-8). Matthew 7:13-14 (NLT): You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Matthew 5:19 (NLT): So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

When the mark of the beast (which, according to the Bible is an issue of worship) is offered, who will you choose to obey…God or His adversary?

God bless…
 
Doug Batchelor preaches and teaches from the Bible, which is the only reference of Scripture any Christian should need. He reads from the same Scriptures that Jesus partially taught from (i.e. the Old Testament) along with the New Testament. He openly admits to being a Seventh-day Adventist (he’s the pastor of an SDA church in Sacramento, CA) although his Amazing Facts ministry is not associated with any religious denomination.

It’s understandable that anyone feeling they’re under attack will naturally be on the defensive and respond accordingly. From any of his presentations I’ve heard, he clearly states that he’s not attacking anyone in particular as someone here has mentioned. With that said, however, it’s important to note that he only presents what’s written in the Bible. In addition to showing where the Catholic church is represented in prophecy (in Revelations 13:1-10), he also points to the United States in the same chapter (vs. 11-18) although he confirms his patriotism to this country.

In studying the Bible, it’s important to confirm Scripture with Scripture to get a better understanding of the truth. In one of the responses to this strain of messages, someone wrote that there are several Scriptures that confirm Sunday as the Lord’s Day. I just ask…please show me one. The only reference to “The Lord’s Day” is in Revelations 1:10, but that doesn’t indicate what day of the week that was, so no one can stake a claim to that being any one holy day of worship. However, when Jesus spoke of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8), he referred to himself being the “Lord, even of the Sabbath day” (the seventh day of the week…the day he customarily went to the Synagogue for worship). Additionally, in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:10), God says the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord. These are but two Old and New Testament references where God clearly indicates what day of the week was sanctified (set apart) as holy; see all of Hebrews 4 for additional truth.

For anyone who would try to use Colossians 2:14-16 as an abolishment of the seventh-day Sabbath, Paul was writing about Moses ceremonial laws (written on paper by Moses and done away with by the blood of Christ) and not God’s Moral Law (written on stone by God’s finger). Some may try to use Romans 14:5-6, but a closer look at this does in no way authorizes a change to the day of Sabbath observance. In reading a letter in the Catholic Extension Magazine, the Catholic Church “under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII” admits to making the change under their own authority…but this was never a commandment that was “Thus saith the LORD”, which should be where all of us get our direction and instruction.

I don’t agree with any religion basing their theology in anything written by humans, other than the divinely inspired Word of God (this includes SDAs, Mormons, etc.). But when something is clear in the Bible, I do find it difficult to see why there are so many different religions and denominations amongst followers of Christ, who was the object of the entire Bible. I believe there will one day be a unification of all of God’s people (because the Bible says there will) and we will all come together to worship Him in truth. Revelations 18:4 (KJV): And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God has sincere believers in all churches and I pray that we all seek Him for an understanding of His word and not the traditions of men (Mark 7:7-8). Matthew 7:13-14 (NLT): You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Matthew 5:19 (NLT): So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

When the mark of the beast (which, according to the Bible is an issue of worship) is offered, who will you choose to obey…God or His adversary?

God bless…
Oh my! one more of those.

the CC can take any persecution, why? because we know Who made her. Jesus said: the gates of hell will not prevail against her. that is beautifull. we need not be afraid, the Lord is with us until the end.

all we have to do is say: Father forgive them, they do not know what they do.
 
I understand your point and I agree with it. But my point is that I don’t believe that the oral teachings of early Christians contradicted their writings. The entire New Testament was written after Jesus died. Many of the accounts of Jesus’ life recorded in the gospels were based on oral traditions. If the Old Testament says something, Jesus reiterated it and the writers of the New Testament (the leaders of the early church) reconfirmed it I would assume that to be the truth.

To me, any oral traditions that are in opposition to or outright say to disregard what the sources of our faith say, aren’t reliable. However, if they are in accordance with those sources then I’d have no reason to discredit them. If scripture says one thing and a newer source (a church, preacher, etc.) says something in complete opposition to that then one has to be right and one has to be wrong. They both can’t be coming from the same source (God). So either God didn’t inspire the Bible or he didn’t inspire post-Biblical doctrine that disagrees with the Bible.
So, you just made yourself the authority of the SS.

you people never get it. Oral Tradition means not written. if it is written then is not Oral. hope you get it this time.

peace
 
Doug Batchelor preaches and teaches from the Bible, which is the only reference of Scripture any Christian should need.
Unless you actually believe what is written in the Bible, where it says…

John 21:25 (KJV) - “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”

and…

2 Thess. 2:15 (KJV) - “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” (“word” is contrasted with “epistle” - in other translations they more accurately use the word “orally” rather than “word.”)
There is no passage in the Bible that supports your erroneous claim that the Bible is the only reference. Which makes sense, since the “Bible” was not a fixed canon until the Church put it together. Before that, the Churches used the Gospels and the Epistles, but they weren’t collected as one book and some Churches used Gospels/Epistles which were later rejected as being part of the Bible.
 
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