Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

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andrea3710 said:
Happycatholic,

You still not proved me that doctrines of the Catholic church are based on Apostolic teachings but traditions of men and derive even from pagan origins. As I already mentioned Mary,none of the apostles worshiped the way Catholic church teaches people to worship,none of them used any rosaries,did not celebrate Easter,colored eggs and such… This doctrines are NOT DOCTRINES OF GOD NOR APOSTLES. I searched the whole Bible for eggs and easter bunny and I found none.So I am not sure from which apostle did you receive this traditions?
John was the last apostle and I am sure that he survived Mary still he never said anything about praying to her neither he did pray to her. So what about that tradition?
Click to expand...
Back to the Easter Bunny huh? Where is it said that is a catholic “Tradition”. Have you read the catechism lately. That is where the Traditions are explained. I just really don’t remember reading about the Easter Bunny.

I’m not trying to “prove” anything to you particularly. I’m only trying to quelch your irresponsible, rediculous claims about the Church. I couldn’t care less what you believe or what you do on Saturday as long as it revolves around Christ and God’s will for us.

I’ve shown you where Tradition is not only accepted but absolutley required for a full deposit of faith for a catholic.

You still have yet to show me where you are “keeping the Sabbath” as God intended by the people He so clearly chose to do so. 🤷
 
andrea3710 said:
Happycatholic,

You still not proved me that doctrines of the Catholic church are based on Apostolic teachings but traditions of men and derive even from pagan origins. As I already mentioned Mary,none of the apostles worshiped the way Catholic church teaches people to worship,none of them used any rosaries,did not celebrate Easter,colored eggs and such… This doctrines are NOT DOCTRINES OF GOD NOR APOSTLES. I searched the whole Bible for eggs and easter bunny and I found none.So I am not sure from which apostle did you receive this traditions?
John was the last apostle and I am sure that he survived Mary still he never said anything about praying to her neither he did pray to her. So what about that tradition?
Click to expand...
Show me Investigative Judgement in the Bible. Show me the term Soul Sleep in the Bible. Show me where it statels in the Bible that Michael the Angel and Christ are one and the same. Show me where it says in the Bible that I have to sign something swearing I believe in all those things to be baptized. Show me where it names Ellen G. White a prophet in the Bible. These are “traditions” in your church not found in the Bible. Show me those things in the Bible and then we’ll talk.
 
djconklin said:
I don’t know of any SDA who does that. I have heard of doctors and nurses who donate whatever they earn from the hospitals to charity. As Jesus taught and showed by example it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Even in His day, if an ox fell into a ditch they would unhestatingly “work” to get it out.

That is the script passage of all SDA’s when justifying work on the Sabbath.

It doesn’t help when one looks at current cultural practices vs. looking at Scripture.

The true Sabbath Keepers, the Jews, don’t have a problem with it.

Hmmm, they didn’t even have lights in the biblical days.

Oh so all our modern amenities are now exempt from Scriptural application? I think not. Again, the Jews don’t have a problem with it.

Jesus dealt with that when His critics asked why His disciples were shucking grain to eat.

Jesus dealt with a lot of the Old Law meant to culminate in keeping the Sabbath because he wanted his followers to rely on Him for their salvation, not a day.

Who told you that SDA’s have “fashioned” the Sabbath into a day of prayer? It sounds like you have been lied to and want to know who did it.
Click to expand...
**I didn’t say SDA’s have fashioned the Sabbath into a day of prayer. I said SDA’s have fashioned the Sabbath into what they want it to be. **
The point is, you are NOT keeping the Sabbath as God commanded in the Commandment. You are not keeping the Sabbath even remotely the way God intended. Are you a Sabbath Keeper or not?
**Christ is not in the Sabbath. He is the Redeemer and redemption is clearly NOT part of the Sabbath. Ask any Jew and they will tell you that. Why do you insist you know more about the Sabbath than the very people God gave it to? **
SDA’s only started following the Sabbath when EGW had a vision that told her they should. So now EGW is an authority on the Sabbath?
All I’m saying is, while everyone here is attacking catholics for worshipping the Redeemer on Sunday, they continue to worship on a day they were told was correct by EGW.
It’s not correct. And you aren’t doing it properly. Not even by a longshot.
 
**Let me add something else since we’re on the subject of Tradition. The Church has never followed a prophet that has stated anything that contridicts Scripture. **
How do SDA’s explain how God’s “remnant church” claims to have followed a prophet and even formed doctrine according to her false prophecies that contridict Scripture?
Example:
EGW claims that the Sabbath commandment is the greatest of all commandments and will set apart those who believe from those who are of the devil.
Christ tells us that the greatest of all the commandments were the ones stating to love God with all your heart and to love one another.
Also, she claims to have seen a temple when she “entered the Holiest”. This is in direct contridiction to John who said he did not see a temple.
**She also delcared in 1850 or so that it would be “a few months” when the end would come and those who were to receive the mark of the beast would be known. Well, let’s just say that’s obviously a false prophesy. **
**Where is she getting this stuff? From God? Wow. **
Who is the prophet? Which is Christ’s Church? The one who harbors false prophets? I think not. And folks on here want to claim we as catholics are being led blindly into hell. I don’t think so.
It is not catholics who have been decieved into thinking they are following fakes. We follow the Apostles and their Traditions. Not EGW and her traditions and delusions of grandure.
EGW said she saw the Sabbath in the Ark. Rubbish. She’s already been proven to either be lying or be delusional. It was after that she started the doctrine of Sabbath keeping for her Christian followers.
**I’m sorry. I don’t mean to be uncharitable, only direct. **
 
I don’t know of any SDA who does that. I have heard of doctors and nurses who donate whatever they earn from the hospitals to charity. As Jesus taught and showed by example it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Even in His day, if an ox fell into a ditch they would unhestatingly “work” to get it out.
Click to expand...
That is the script passage of all SDA’s when justifying work on the Sabbath.
Click to expand...

Luke 14:5-6 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an *** or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things.
It doesn’t help when one looks at current cultural practices vs. looking at Scripture.
Click to expand...
The true Sabbath Keepers, the Jews, don’t have a problem with it.
Click to expand...
  1. Who said they were the “true Sabbath Keepers”?
  2. According to what critera was this determined?
  3. They didn’t have too many problems with their man-made rules in Christ’s day either.
Hmmm, they didn’t even have lights in the biblical days.
Click to expand...
Oh so all our modern amenities are now exempt from Scriptural application? I think not. Again, the Jews don’t have a problem with it.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about modern amenities being exempt? Who decides? According to what criteria? It is irrelvant what the Jews of today think. The question is what principles can we glean from Scripture.
Jesus dealt with that when His critics asked why His disciples were shucking grain to eat.
Click to expand...
Jesus dealt with a lot of the Old Law meant to culminate in keeping the Sabbath because he wanted his followers to rely on Him for their salvation, not a day.
Click to expand...

The response does not deal with what I said. Secondly, there is nothing in Scripture that says the OT laws were to “culminate” in the Sabbath. Third, all Christians rely on faith in God’s grace through the shed blood of His Son to save them. There is no teaching in the SDA church that says keeping the Sabbath will save them. I’d like to know who lied to you about that.
Who told you that SDA’s have “fashioned” the Sabbath into a day of prayer? It sounds like you have been lied to and want to know who did it.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say SDA’s have fashioned the Sabbath into a day of prayer. I said SDA’s have fashioned the Sabbath into what they want it to be.
Click to expand...

We haven’t done that either–again you were lied to–why won’t you tell us who told you these lies? Secondly, what you actually said was “And please, please note what it says about prayer on the Sabbath. I can take this only to mean it is not meant to be a day of worship as the SDA’s have fashioned it.”
The point is, you are NOT keeping the Sabbath as God commanded in the Commandment. You are not keeping the Sabbath even remotely the way God intended.
Click to expand...
Says who? According to what criteria?
Christ is not in the Sabbath. He is the Redeemer and redemption is clearly NOT part of the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Who said that He was in the Sabbath? It is because we sin in not keeping the Sabbath (as well as the other nine) that we need a Redeemer.
Why do you insist you know more about the Sabbath than the very people God gave it to?
Click to expand...
I never said I did. Why do you take the word of a race that killed Christ over those who have chosen to follow Him?
SDA’s only started following the Sabbath when EGW had a vision that told her they should. So now EGW is an authority on the Sabbath?
Click to expand...
Actually it was Rachel Oakes who was a Seventh-day Baptist who led Joseph batesd to the sabbath and from there it went to the Whites. This is an example of what happens when you listen to liars–they mislead you. Note my tag line.
All I’m saying is, while everyone here is attacking catholics for worshipping the Redeemer on Sunday, they continue to worship on a day they were told was correct by EGW.
Click to expand...
We do not attack Catholics for worshipping on Sunday–again you were lied to and you believed them. Pastors in our church get up and tell the congregation that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s because they are living up to the light they know and too many SDA’s aren’t. EGW did not tell us which day to worship on–another lie you were told.
Example:
Click to expand...
And I note the lack of sources for any of the claims.
EGW said she saw the Sabbath in the Ark. Rubbish.
Click to expand...
How would you know that? Have you seen the Ark? That’s the only way you could know that.
 
Happycatholic,

Maybe my memory fails me but I do not remember when I ever discussed E.White and saying she is a prophet. I am here only to discuss the Bible and the basic religion. Again,if there is not easter bunny and coloring eggs in your catechism why then people practice it,that is my question,why doing something that is connected to pagan practices and church does not deny it but actually blesses it .Why people go in the Sunday/Easter morning to bless the food and these eggs?
I have not much time to discuss more but I will get back tomorrow hopefully.
Soul sleep…I guess that this subject has been discussed. In Genesis a human is called a living soul,in figurative speech we also hear the word soul like for an example “There were 100 souls on the board”. In this context we see it’s use in the Bible.
Examples: Genesis 17;14 And the uncircumcised male child who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin that person shall be cut off from his people,he has broken my convenant.

Genesis 19;20 See now this city is near enough to flee to and it is a little one ,please let me escape there and my soul shall live
-Already according to that text we can figure out that soul can get into the state where it does not live,get it?

Genesis 27;4 And make me savory food such as I love and bring it to me that I may eat that my soul may bless you before I die - Here we have a soul that is visible poof what soul means because Isaac was alive and the soul meant a living being.

Leviticus 5;1 If a soul sins in hearing the utterance of an oath and is witness whether he has seen or known of the matter…
In some Bibles the translation for the soul is person-all these examples are coming with the Hebrew word נפשׁ or nephesh- and we here that the soul can hear and to sin we see in Bible that person who dies does not sin anymore and it cannot hear or do anything. So there it is explanation for the soul sleep or person sleep because Jesus said for Lazarus that he was sleeping,didn’t he?

Revelation 16;3 And the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea and it became blood as of a dead man,and every living soul in the sea died
-here soul can be translated as creature as it is in some translations of Bible and here the word derives from the word ψυχή psuchē From breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew and heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
So hereby we see that every living soul died.

James 5;20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from DEATH and cover a multitude of sins.again these word derives from the word ψυχή/psuchē

Some more figurative speech that has the same meaning…

Job 14;10 But man dies and is laid away,indeed he breaths his last or another translation says gives up his ghost ( גּוע/gâva‛ to breathe out, that is, (by implication) expire: - die, be dead, give up the ghost, perish.)
And where is he? As water disappears from the sea and a river becomes parched and dries up so man lies down and does not rise till the heavens are no more they will not awake nor be roused from THEIR SLEEP.

Psalm 6;5 For in death there is no remembrance of You,in grave who will give you thanks?- so that gives me good reason to believe that soul sleeps for I do not see it does something.

Psalm 49 ;15 But He will redeem my soul from the power of the grave ,for He shall receive me.

It is evident in the next verse that David never ascended to heaven and it was great opportunity in that verse to be said something about his glory and his life after death with God in heaven, we know David was the man right in God’s eyes so if the soul goes to God in a manner some preach where is His soul,after all Jesus comes from David’s seed so he should have been given that honor ,if they all go to heaven after death so should have David too.

Acts 13;36 For David after he served his own generation by the will of God fell on sleep and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption

Acts 2;34 For David did not ascend into the heavens…

Here was also a perfect moment to be said something of the glory and angles David is singing with and watching us from heaven but we “hear” nothing of it.

Acts 2;29 Men and brethren let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day.

Please think about this,I know there are texts that say about souls who cry here and there and everywhere but that was figurative just like dragon with seven heads is figurative, for none of the apostles ever supported theology of life after death.
 
REEDITED POST FROM ABOVE TO HAPPYCATHOLIC

Happycatholic,

Maybe my memory fails me but I do not remember when I ever discussed E.White and saying she is a prophet. I am here only to discuss the Bible and the basic religion. Again,if there is not easter bunny and coloring eggs in your catechism why then people practice it,that is my question,why doing something that is connected to pagan practices and church does not deny it but actually blesses it .Why people go in the Sunday/Easter morning to bless the food and these eggs?
I have not much time to discuss more but I will get back tomorrow hopefully.
Soul sleep…I guess that this subject has been discussed. In Genesis a human is called a living soul,in figurative speech we also hear the word soul like for an example “There were 100 souls on the board”. In this context we see it’s use in the Bible.
Examples: Genesis 17;14 And the uncircumcised male child who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin that person/soul (נפשׁ
nephesh) shall be cut off from his people,he has broken my convenant.

Genesis 19;20 See now this city is near enough to flee to and it is a little one ,please let me escape there and my soul shall live
-according to that text we can figure out that soul can get into the state where it does not live,right?

Genesis 27;4 And make me savory food such as I love and bring it to me that I may eat that my soul may bless you before I die - Here we have a soul that is visible poof what soul means because Isaac was alive and the soul meant a living being.

Leviticus 5;1 If a soul sins in hearing the utterance of an oath and is witness whether he has seen or known of the matter…
In some Bibles the translation for the soul is person-all these examples are coming with the Hebrew word נפשׁ or nephesh- here we read that the soul can hear and to sin we see further in Bible that person who dies does not sin anymore and it cannot hear or do anything. So there it is explanation for the soul sleep or person sleep because Jesus said for Lazarus that he was sleeping,didn’t he?

Revelation 16;3 And the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea and it became blood as of a dead man,and every living soul in the sea died
-*here soul can be translated as creature as it is in some translations of Bible and here the word derives from the word ψυχή psuchē * *From breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew and heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
So hereby we see that every living soul died.
*

James 5;20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from DEATH and cover a multitude of sins.again these word derives from the word ψυχή/psuchē

Some more figurative speech that has the same meaning…

Job 14;10 But man dies and is laid away,indeed he breaths his last or another translation says gives up his ghost ( גּוע/gâva‛ to breathe out, that is, (by implication) expire: - die, be dead, give up the ghost, perish.)
And where is he? As water disappears from the sea and a river becomes parched and dries up so man lies down and does not rise till the heavens are no more they will not awake nor be roused from THEIR SLEEP.

Psalm 6;5 For in death there is no remembrance of You,in grave who will give you thanks?- so that gives me good reason to believe that soul sleeps for I do not see it does something.

Psalm 49 ;15 But He will redeem my soul from the power of the grave ,for He shall receive me.

It is evident in the next verse that David never ascended to heaven and it was great opportunity in that verse to be said something about his glory and his life after death with God in heaven, we know David was the man right in God’s eyes so if the soul goes to God in a manner some preach where is His soul,after all Jesus comes from David’s seed so he should have been given that honor ,if they all go to heaven after death so should have David too.

Acts 13;36 For David after he served his own generation by the will of God fell on sleep and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption

Acts 2;34 For David did not ascend into the heavens…

Here was also a perfect moment to be said something of the glory and angles David is singing with and watching us from heaven but we “hear” nothing of it.

Acts 2;29 Men and brethren let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day.

Please think about this,I know there are texts that say about souls who cry here and there and everywhere but that was figurative just like dragon with seven heads is figurative, for none of the apostles ever supported theology of life after death.
 
There are things I do not understand in the Bible because they are God’s secrets and we people of limited thoughts cannot understand them like we cannot understand that God created everything and that He existed before anything. Can we understand and explain the word nothing or eternity? No,nobody can and I do not want to get deep into subjects God never revealed to us humans for they are not important for our salvation. I know one thing,Satan is great liar who wants to take place of God,he mixes lie with the truth. His first lie as you already heard was: You will not die and this lie continues till this day, God said You will surely die and Satan opposed God,and who are people today listening and whose doctrines they follow-I guess I do not need to answer this,it is self evident. As I said in the beginning I do not care about denomination I care about the basic teachings important for Salvation,nothing added nothing taken away. If I read books of E.White that is my personal thing,I can read them and see if what they say are right and again I do not need to. If I personally witnessed that things she wrote are in line with what happens today that is my business and my witness but I would never come to you or anyone else with her books but with Bible. I also said that nowhere in the Bible says that SDA,Catholics or some other denominations will be saved…the ones who will be saved are only those who follow Christ/have the faith of Jesus Christ and keep the commandments of God and what are commandments of God to me and you that is another long subject…
 
I will get back to Easter practices. Let us say,OK,people had set the date for celebration of Christ’s resurrection,it was not practiced by the apostles but OK, then they named the day of celebration Easter- it is named after pagan goddess,but OK maybe it is by chance for in my country it is celled differently and in some other languages is is called Pasha,so OK I would think,nice,we have Easter or uskrs or pasha. But me being a medical worker and my profession is to watch people,their symptoms and behavior I tend to do so in spiritual sense too.I like to observe things and look behind them and observe what certain holidays,ordinances have in the background and what “symptoms” do they show. I do not care if some things are not in catechism,they are still practiced by the most and priests approve of it and never said anything against it …I observed how easter was worshiped and always asked myself what coloring of eggs had to do with the resurrection of Jesus,there is a Catholic church in my neighborhood and I can see how people only on that particular Sunday go and bless their eggs and cakes,etc…I have not seen a catholic person yet who did not offer me their colored eggs or did not have them,unfortunately this practice is not among catholic but others too. This practice has been kept since I know of myself…and church never objected. So we have here now interesting “symptoms” (coincidence) -we have here the name Easter which I again repeat is by chance the name of goddess of fertility -in my country I would not know according to my language what Uskrs (because Uskrs means “risen”) represents but then I have warning signs-people although not having in their catechism directions still color their eggs and have bunnies involved and all these things were symbols of goddess Easter-strange coincidence but useful one…as a direction given for people was By their fruit you shall know them it goes the same for the ordinances and practices…by the things they do one shall know who is in the background that they serve knowingly or without knowing it. Here we can add that Easter’s date is established by astrology according to the vernal equinox.The spring festival of pagan worship of the sun and the renewed season was also set on the same date. The Druids had a sacred symbol - an egg.Druids (satan worshipers) in Europe used eggs as symbols of goddess of spring. The rabbit is associated with the moon in ancient Egypt. It is a fertility symbol of sexual significance. Hot cross buns are raisin cakes with a “T” on them baked for the queen of heaven, Tammuz, (Jer. 7:18). God talks about sun worship in Ezekiel Chapter 8. The SUNrise service was a part of ancient sun worship. Baal was the sun god and still is today. Shinto pilgrims pray to the sun as they climb the mountain sides. Mithrists meet together at dawn and honor the sun god. At the time of the Old Testament, the Jews got into practices of picking up sticks and feathers to build fires, making raisin cakes, and crying for Tammuz (Josh. 23:7 and Eze. 8:14). Don’t mix with these heathen practices; don’t even mention the names of their gods!"
People can defend this practice with their sincere hearts but still there are too many symptoms that show what lies in the background of it all and the church never opposed that but blessed it. Satan is very sneaky and to many he will “sell to people a snake for a cow”… I wish people would think about it, I am not here to condemn or judge because judging belongs to God, but to make the sincere worshipers of God to consider this. I was fooled too by this practice but as I said,I always questioned the practice and then I saw a “wolf” behind it all and refrained from that practice and decided I will celebrate my Jesus and His resurrection every day and Thank Him for His gift without any eggs or any material stuff,what He wants from us is our heart to be put on the altar,our decision that we are willing to sacrifice our everything for Him and His will and His truth and pure doctrine. Amen
 
djconklin said:
Luke 14:5-6 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an *** or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things.
  1. Who said they were the “true Sabbath Keepers”?
  2. According to what critera was this determined?
  3. They didn’t have too many problems with their man-made rules in Christ’s day either.
Who said anything about modern amenities being exempt? Who decides? According to what criteria? It is irrelvant what the Jews of today think. The question is what principles can we glean from Scripture.

The response does not deal with what I said. Secondly, there is nothing in Scripture that says the OT laws were to “culminate” in the Sabbath. Third, all Christians rely on faith in God’s grace through the shed blood of His Son to save them. There is no teaching in the SDA church that says keeping the Sabbath will save them. I’d like to know who lied to you about that.

We haven’t done that either–again you were lied to–why won’t you tell us who told you these lies? Secondly, what you actually said was “And please, please note what it says about prayer on the Sabbath. I can take this only to mean it is not meant to be a day of worship as the SDA’s have fashioned it.”

Says who? According to what criteria?

Who said that He was in the Sabbath? It is because we sin in not keeping the Sabbath (as well as the other nine) that we need a Redeemer.

I never said I did. Why do you take the word of a race that killed Christ over those who have chosen to follow Him?

Actually it was Rachel Oakes who was a Seventh-day Baptist who led Joseph batesd to the sabbath and from there it went to the Whites. This is an example of what happens when you listen to liars–they mislead you. Note my tag line.

We do not attack Catholics for worshipping on Sunday–again you were lied to and you believed them. Pastors in our church get up and tell the congregation that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s because they are living up to the light they know and too many SDA’s aren’t. EGW did not tell us which day to worship on–another lie you were told.

And I note the lack of sources for any of the claims.

How would you know that? Have you seen the Ark? That’s the only way you could know that.
Click to expand...
DJ,
Your entire post is really telling. I’m not interested in going any further with you because you really don’t have a clue. But thanks anyway.
**There is one thing I will respond to. You need to read *Early Writings by Ellen G. White, published in 1882 (I believe) ***
In that book she also states that she had a vision that all those who were previously SDA and left the faith were damned. Although she gets into a more “colorful” description of the damned.
She really knows how to scare the daylights out of people. But then most of those type of religious leaders do.
 
andrea3710 said:
REEDITED POST FROM ABOVE TO HAPPYCATHOLIC

Happycatholic,

*Maybe my memory fails me but I do not remember when I ever discussed E.White and saying she is a prophet. I am here only to discuss the Bible and the basic religion. Again,if there is not easter bunny and coloring eggs in your catechism why then people practice it,that is my question,why doing something that is connected to pagan practices and church does not deny it but actually blesses it .Why people go in the Sunday/Easter morning to bless the food and these eggs? *
I have not much time to discuss more but I will get back tomorrow hopefully.
Soul sleep…I guess that this subject has been discussed. In Genesis a human is called a living soul,in figurative speech we also hear the word soul like for an example “There were 100 souls on the board”. In this context we see it’s use in the Bible.
Examples: Genesis 17;14 And the uncircumcised male child who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin that person/soul (נפשׁ
nephesh) shall be cut off from his people,he has broken my convenant.

Genesis 19;20 See now this city is near enough to flee to and it is a little one ,please let me escape there and my soul shall live
-according to that text we can figure out that soul can get into the state where it does not live,right?

Genesis 27;4 And make me savory food such as I love and bring it to me that I may eat that my soul may bless you before I die - Here we have a soul that is visible poof what soul means because Isaac was alive and the soul meant a living being.

Leviticus 5;1 If a soul sins in hearing the utterance of an oath and is witness whether he has seen or known of the matter…
In some Bibles the translation for the soul is person-all these examples are coming with the Hebrew word נפשׁ or nephesh- here we read that the soul can hear and to sin we see further in Bible that person who dies does not sin anymore and it cannot hear or do anything. So there it is explanation for the soul sleep or person sleep because Jesus said for Lazarus that he was sleeping,didn’t he?

Revelation 16;3 And the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea and it became blood as of a dead man,and every living soul in the sea died
-*here soul can be translated as creature as it is in some translations of Bible and here the word derives from the word ψυχή psuchē *From breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew and heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
So hereby we see that every living soul died.

James 5;20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from DEATH and cover a multitude of sins.again these word derives from the word ψυχή/psuchē

Some more figurative speech that has the same meaning…

Job 14;10 But man dies and is laid away,indeed he breaths his last or another translation says gives up his ghost ( גּוע/gâva‛ to breathe out, that is, (by implication) expire: - die, be dead, give up the ghost, perish.)
And where is he? As water disappears from the sea and a river becomes parched and dries up so man lies down and does not rise till the heavens are no more they will not awake nor be roused from THEIR SLEEP.

Psalm 6;5 For in death there is no remembrance of You,in grave who will give you thanks?- so that gives me good reason to believe that soul sleeps for I do not see it does something.

Psalm 49 ;15 But He will redeem my soul from the power of the grave ,for He shall receive me.

It is evident in the next verse that David never ascended to heaven and it was great opportunity in that verse to be said something about his glory and his life after death with God in heaven, we know David was the man right in God’s eyes so if the soul goes to God in a manner some preach where is His soul,after all Jesus comes from David’s seed so he should have been given that honor ,if they all go to heaven after death so should have David too.

Acts 13;36 For David after he served his own generation by the will of God fell on sleep and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption

Acts 2;34 For David did not ascend into the heavens…

Here was also a perfect moment to be said something of the glory and angles David is singing with and watching us from heaven but we “hear” nothing of it.

Acts 2;29 Men and brethren let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day.

Please think about this,I know there are texts that say about souls who cry here and there and everywhere but that was figurative just like dragon with seven heads is figurative, for none of the apostles ever supported theology of life after death.
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I don’t know why people do the Easter Bunny thing. I would venture to say that since pretty much everyone does it, it’s not associated with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Why do you paint your toenails or get a haircut. It’s about that important. You should spend your time hating us for more substantive reasons sweetie. Really, you are wasting a LOT of time on the Easter Bunny. You’ve already spent more time on it than anyone will in any given Easter season.
Rest. Think of something else, k?
 
Your entire post is really telling.

Telling what?
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I’m not interested in going any further with you because you really don’t have a clue.
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I once preached a sermon in which I noted that until you have studied something in-depth you really have no idea how little you actually know. Currently, I’m working on the claim that EGW plagiarized (she didn’t). I’ve been doing it for 6 years now and my (partially annotated) bibliography now has over 580 items in it. I can show what I know and have learned along the way. The critics and liars can’t do that because they haven’t done a lick of work other than cut-and-paste.

One of the things I learned is that you can never trust the liars to tell you the truth. You were lied to.
In that book she also states that she had a vision that all those who were previously SDA and left the faith were damned. Although she gets into a more “colorful” description of the damned.
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Again, I ask a simple question: where did she say that? Who told you that she said that? Why can’t, or won’t, you tell us?
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djconklin said:
Your entire post is really telling.

Telling what?

I once preached a sermon in which I noted that until you have studied something in-depth you really have no idea how little you actually know. Currently, I’m working on the claim that EGW plagiarized (she didn’t). I’ve been doing it for 6 years now and my (partially annotated) bibliography now has over 580 items in it. I can show what I know and have learned along the way. The critics and liars can’t do that because they haven’t done a lick of work other than cut-and-paste.

One of the things I learned is that you can never trust the liars to tell you the truth. You were lied to.

[Again, I ask a simple question: where did she say that? Who told you that she said that? Why can’t, or won’t, you tell us?
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My friends are every bit as much Christian as I am and as I’m sure you are. It’s just that the SDA faith puts so much emphasis on the Sabbath (day) and the teachings of EGW. She’s mentioned in the Fundemental Beliefs on your Conference website. Her supposed gift of prophesy is highlighted as proof of the doctrine of the gift of prophecy (#18) on that list of beliefs. Yet, she told of things she saw that were in direct conflict with Scripture as in the belief of Investigative Judgement. Her vision conflicts with Scripture. How can a church claim to be THE REMNANT if that proof is based on the gift of prophecy manifested in a false prophet? By the way, she’s always been an Adventist, she BECAME Seventh-Day after the vision.
And take a look at #24. Where in the world is that found in Scripture.
Is this not proof enough? Your own conference has this on their website as YOUR fundemental beliefs. What else do you want?
I’ve given you the site of your own conference. I’ve given you text from EGW’s books written by her. I don’t know what else you want.
I just think SDAs are seriously misled. I’m not saying they are not Christians.
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I gave the name of the book written by her.
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I saw that. I asked which page was the alleged material on. Didn’t your source tell you? Doesn’t that kind of raise a red flag in your mind?
Yet, she told of things she saw that were in direct conflict with Scripture as in the belief of Investigative Judgement.
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Actually, it is in line with the biblical Day of Atonement. Those who told you that it wasn’t biblical were hoping that you wouldn’t be familiar with that God-made ceremony.
How can a church claim to be THE REMNANT if that proof is based on the gift of prophecy manifested in a false prophet?
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We use the term church" in two ways. one refers to the denomniation, the secoind refers to the body of Christ. Since we know that most SDA’s aren’t livbing up to what they know we know that when we are talking about the remnant we aren’t using the term “church” in the first sense.

I just ran across a neat quote “There are numbers who have lightly assumed the name of Christ. An exciting meeting, an unintelligent expression of faith in Christ, which costs neither the back [being] turned from sin to God, nor the intelligent acts of baptism and union with the Lord’s people, is the sum total of their religious experience. Surely, we may say, From what did they backslide?” anon. “Quaint, But Capital,” Review and Herald (11/7/1882): page 693.
I’ve given you text from EGW’s books written by her. I don’t know what else you want.
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You gave alleged quotes from EGW, in some cases you have said which book–now, which page (see the above example)?
way, she’s always been an Adventist, she BECAME Seventh-Day after the vision.
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Actually she was a Methodist. till her family heard William Miller preach.
 
I don’t know why people do the Easter Bunny thing. I would venture to say that since pretty much everyone does it, it’s not associated with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Why do you paint your toenails or get a haircut. It’s about that important. You should spend your time hating us for more substantive reasons sweetie. Really, you are wasting a LOT of time on the Easter Bunny. You’ve already spent more time on it than anyone will in any given Easter season.
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Rest. Think of something else, k?
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Lol,I wrote much more but this is your reply? Sure I can rest my case if that is all you are saying. First I do not paint my nails and haircut is because hygiene…what an argument :eek:
I guess you are missing the whole point. I have no intention to fight but have intention for some intelligent think over but now I see that you did not even read all that I wrote…It is sad when all that you have to say is this. I will not spend time hating nobody my dear friend. It is not in Christian spirit but pointing to false teachings and practices is. I told you what I think about what is in Catechism or not you still practice it with the blessing of the church and you cannot deny it.🤷 I should maybe put the title on this subject From easter bunny to a little serpent 😛
 
djconklin said:
Your entire post is really telling.

Telling what?

I once preached a sermon in which I noted that until you have studied something in-depth you really have no idea how little you actually know. Currently, I’m working on the claim that EGW plagiarized (she didn’t). I’ve been doing it for 6 years now and my (partially annotated) bibliography now has over 580 items in it. I can show what I know and have learned along the way. The critics and liars can’t do that because they haven’t done a lick of work other than cut-and-paste.

I’m picking up lound and clear on your accusation here. But as I said, I’ve read the books myself. I’ve compared them to Scripture. While a lot of her claims are basically just restating Scripture, some of them are way out there and not based on Scripture. I’m not a liar. I don’t need to lie. I challenge anyone to pick up a book, any book that she’s written and compare it to Scripture. That’s all. Unless you and I are in the same room and you see the book and we look at it together, you can claim all day that I’m cutting and pasting from something that doesn’t exsist. And that’s fine. Research or no research, 580 pages or 1. It doesn’t matter. The books are out ther with her name on them. I don’t know if she plagerized or not. It doesn’t matter.
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**Say what you want. Many have known the truth about her for years. **

Peace Be With You and I hope you always find Christ in what you are searching for.

HC
One of the things I learned is that you can never trust the liars to tell you the truth. You were lied to.

[Again, I ask a simple question: where did she say that? Who told you that she said that? Why can’t, or won’t, you tell us?
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djconklin said:
I saw that. I asked which page was the alleged material on. Didn’t your source tell you? Doesn’t that kind of raise a red flag in your mind?

Actually, it is in line with the biblical Day of Atonement. Those who told you that it wasn’t biblical were hoping that you wouldn’t be familiar with that God-made ceremony.

It may be in line with the Day of Atonement, however it is NOT what is stated in Scripture. Not by a longshot.

We use the term church" in two ways. one refers to the denomniation, the secoind refers to the body of Christ. Since we know that most SDA’s aren’t livbing up to what they know we know that when we are talking about the remnant we aren’t using the term “church” in the first sense.

I just ran across a neat quote “There are numbers who have lightly assumed the name of Christ. An exciting meeting, an unintelligent expression of faith in Christ, which costs neither the back [being] turned from sin to God, nor the intelligent acts of baptism and union with the Lord’s people, is the sum total of their religious experience. Surely, we may say, From what did they backslide?” anon. “Quaint, But Capital,” Review and Herald (11/7/1882): page 693.

**Yes, another SDA publication. **

You gave alleged quotes from EGW, in some cases you have said which book–now, which page (see the above example)?

Actually she was a Methodist. till her family heard William Miller preach.
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I was actually speaking of the time after that when she left Miller’s movement and started following the adventist faith. She was only Methodist till she was 12 or so. And so when did she become Seventh-Day?
**I welcome anything you can offer that’s different than what I’ve read (EGW’s actual books). I’ve not ready anything written about her, only by her. Anything you could tell me that would help me understand where I’m in error about her relationship with your church would be helpful. **
As I’ve said, I have friends whom I desparately have tried to understand. I love them and cherish their Christian fellowship, but I don’t understand their faith.
They are actually coming to my fincee’s confirmation at the Easter Vigil. I’m curious… Would you have catholic friends? Would you attend their Church for something like their confirmation?
 
andrea3710 said:
Lol,I wrote much more but this is your reply? Sure I can rest my case if that is all you are saying. First I do not paint my nails and haircut is because hygiene…what an argument :eek:
I guess you are missing the whole point. I have no intention to fight but have intention for some intelligent think over but now I see that you did not even read all that I wrote…It is sad when all that you have to say is this. I will not spend time hating nobody my dear friend. It is not in Christian spirit but pointing to false teachings and practices is. I told you what I think about what is in Catechism or not you still practice it with the blessing of the church and you cannot deny it.🤷 I should maybe put the title on this subject From easter bunny to a little serpent 😛
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" to a little serpent" **Yeah, that’s really Christian. I’ve yet to call you a name and you’ve called me a serpent. That’s nice. **
**I didn’t read all of what you wrote because I can barely make out what I did. You write like someone going in a million different directions at once. **
**Yes, I follow the Catechism. There’s nothing in it contrary to Scripture. **
You and I don’t agree. I won’t stoop to calling you names though.
HC
 
I once preached a sermon in which I noted that until you have studied something in-depth you really have no idea how little you actually know. Currently, I’m working on the claim that EGW plagiarized (she didn’t). I’ve been doing it for 6 years now and my (partially annotated) bibliography now has over 580 items in it. I can show what I know and have learned along the way. The critics and liars can’t do that because they haven’t done a lick of work other than cut-and-paste.
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I’m picking up lound and clear on your accusation here.
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There’s no accusation there against you. Your only fault (typical of Americans) is that you are too trusting. You assumed that the critics were telling you the truth. I’ve learned that you cannot trust them on anything.
While a lot of her claims are basically just restating Scripture, some of them are way out there and not based on Scripture.
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To save yourself lots of work see whiteestate.org/issues/contradictions.html. What typically happens is that the critics are reading both the Bible and EGW simplistically, woodenly and literalistically. And since you cannot think any better or clearer than you can read, they create the alleged contradictions. This also happens with the Bible critics when they claim that the Bible teaches that turtles have a voice, PI=3, unicorns exist, etc…
I’m not a liar. I don’t need to lie.
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You are repeating things that you have been told–they lied to you*–that’s why you can’t show where EGW said the things that you said she said.
  • I have repeatedly noted that to you–I have never, ever called you a liar.
Research or no research, 580 pages or 1. It doesn’t matter.
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It does matter and it directly answers your claim that I don’t have “a clue.” BTW, the critics don’t even have one page in their bibliography. They can’t even tell you on what page EGW supposedly said something outrageous. And if they do give you a book title and page–look it up for yourself and invariably you’ll find that they have twisted the alleged quote–I have caught many a critic doing that, or they get the book title right, but have the wrong volume and page number!
I don’t know if she plagerized or not. It doesn’t matter.
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It is yet another example of how the critics have lied and lots of people believed them.

Alll I’m asking for is on what page did she say what.
 
" to a little serpent" Yeah, that’s really Christian. I’ve yet to call you a name and you’ve called me a serpent. That’s nice.
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That would only work if she had first called you an easter bunny.
 
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