S
Soutane
Guest
bye Andrew.Let’s agree to pray for each other.
- Status
H
happilycatholic
Guest
H
happilycatholic
Guest
Andrew,
As much as I would love to tell you goodbye, we are all learning here. I think you could do a little less personal attack and a little more charity, but all the same we are learning.
I can’t believe you’d just throw your toys down and go home.
As much as I would love to tell you goodbye, we are all learning here. I think you could do a little less personal attack and a little more charity, but all the same we are learning.
I can’t believe you’d just throw your toys down and go home.
G
greggy53
Guest
I was raised with the Bible in a Catholic school. Might I suggest you google the history of Christianity, and read for yourself the true history behind God’s Church. At least you haven’t insulted me like the last SDA I spoke with. When I countered every scripture he pullled out with scripture of my own. He said I was ignorant, and didn’t know the scriptures. You see, he was told by Bachelor, and the other leaders of the SDA that Catholics were ignorant of the Bible, which of course you now know is not true. I thank you for keeping the discussion as polite as possible. Why don’t you go to a Mass some Sunday, and see if you find anything in the service that goes against what scripture teaches. My wife and I spent a few years in an evangelical Protestant church before returning to the faith, and we learned a lot from our experience.
Peace Greg
P
Patrick_Murebil
Guest
“] still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall”.
Say/think/believe what you want…God’s word is clear on this topic.
Andrew
Hi Andrew!
I don’t feel compelled to explain my reasons to you, but would like to, as we have discussed things before. And you provided me such a perfect opening with Hebrews chapter 4. For the beautiful full context of what Paul is talking about read Hebrews chapter 3 and 4.
Although, while I understand how you come to the conclusion that this is talking about the seventh-day sabbath, I disagree that it is a “clear New Testament reference of the call to continue to keep the seventh-day Sabbath”. It does not say to keep the seventh day sabbath holy, but speaks of the “special rest” still waiting for God’s people to enter. But it is not the seventh day…it is TODAY!!! And I’ll stay with the NLT version:
**Hebrews 4:1 God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. 2 For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. 3 For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said,
“In my anger I took an oath:
‘They will never enter my place of rest,’”
even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. 4 We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” 5 But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.”
6 So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. 7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:
“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts.”
8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. 10 For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.**
It is God’s rest into which we are called to enter, the same rest that God entered after creating the world. So what is God’s Rest on the 7th day of creation? Is it saturday? Is is sunday?
In the beginning God created everything out of nothing in the 6 days of the creation week. When He was finished, at the end of the 6th day, He saw that all of His creation was very good, and so on the 7th day He rested, **Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation. **
According to Sacred Scripture, only God rested on the 7th day in the creation week. According to Sacred Scripture there is no command from God to Adam and Eve to rest on the 7th day of creation week, or even to get together with Him on every 7th day thereafter and worship God and spend time with Him. Why? Could it have something to do with God’s plan for His human creatures? Yes! And what was that plan? What was God’s rest after He had created all things?
It was for Adam and Eve to live with Him in paradise, to tend the Garden, to increase their family, and to do all this with God Himself as their Father always present and available to them. Mankind in the perfectly created world before the fall lived in the presence of God and enjoyed eternal communion with Him and each other, in God’s love. And then sin entered the world and that perfect eternal rest, God’s rest in which mankind participated came to an abrupt end. Now mankind had to toil in the thistles and in sweat, and have pain in giving birth to children. And from Genesis chapter three to the end of Revelation the story of God’s plan of redemption is documented. And what is the purpose of God redeeming mankind? Is it not to bring mankind back to the original relationship designed for them when God created all things?
(cont’d)
P
Patrick_Murebil
Guest
(cont’d 2)
And redemption not only involves teaching mankind about God’s original plan, but also ways to lead mankind back to trusting and following God as He originally intended. These are the purposes of all the covenants God made with His people for all mankind to learn and be saved.
Instruction and transformation was provided in the covenant between God and His people when He gave the Law, the 10 commandments to Moses. And what was the purpose of Sabbath commandment? Was it only to recognize God as the True Creator and commemorate His initial act of creating all things in the beginning? What was the purpose of resting on the Sabbath? Was it not to give mankind, burdened under the toil that resulted from sin, a taste of that initial relationship between God and His creatures in the Garden of Eden…that initial participation in God’s eternal rest and the special relationship with God the Creator which that entails? One day of rest out of the week to remember and participate as best as possible in full communion with God, unencumbered by the curse of sin present every other day of the week in this fallen sinful world.
And this was the means of instruction that God used to teach His people about His original plan for mankind, and His plan of redemption for fallen mankind… thus all the other laws to teach mankind how to interact with each other and with God in a sinful, Post-Fall world. Yet through all of this period of history before the coming of The Messiah, there was the promise of The Messiah who would come and restore all. And at “the right time” God became a man, Jesus Christ, fully man and fully God. And He was able to teach mankind directly face to face, with the full authority of God because He is God. Now God, instead of communicating to mankind through the prophets, became man and dwelt among us and taught by His own words and His own actions. And ultimately offered Himself as the only sacrifice that could restore fallen mankind to its original intended relationship with God before the fall.
And Jesus, The Creator of mankind, offered Himself for, and redeemed, mankind. And I ask you, what means more to a fallen sinful human; the fact that God created a perfect world which became marred and disordered due to the sin of mankind, or, the fact that The Creator God gave up His glory and became a man to save and restore fallen, sinful, marred, and disordered mankind back to that original and perfect relationship in His perfect creation?
As God’s people awaited the Redeemer, The Messiah, God used the Sabbath to teach His people, and show the world that He is the True God because He is The Creator God. And once the Messiah, The Redeemer, The Creator, became a man and redeemed this world, He most assuredly restored and made possible His original plan for His relationship with mankind. He made certain that God’s Rest in a perfect creation would be restored…that special eternal relationship between God and His creatures. And now those redeemed from sin enter God’s Rest, made possible by Jesus Christ. God’s Rest that Paul talks about in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4.
And what is that day of rest called? It is called Today…which is everyday. And all who accept Jesus Christ, The Word of God made flesh by whom all things were created, and are in Him by His grace and through His Spirit, enter God’s Rest…the redemption and restoration of a pure and holy relationship with God. And in Jesus we find our true Sabbath rest each and every day.
Matthew 11: 27 “My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” 28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”
Hebrews 4: 6 So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. 7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:
“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts.”
8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. 10 For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.
It is no sin to rest and commemorate the Creator on the Sabbath. It is no sin to rest and commemorate the Creator and the Redeemer and the event of Redemption on Sunday. It is God’s will that we enter His Rest Today…which is everyday that we draw breath.
God bless all!!!
And redemption not only involves teaching mankind about God’s original plan, but also ways to lead mankind back to trusting and following God as He originally intended. These are the purposes of all the covenants God made with His people for all mankind to learn and be saved.
Instruction and transformation was provided in the covenant between God and His people when He gave the Law, the 10 commandments to Moses. And what was the purpose of Sabbath commandment? Was it only to recognize God as the True Creator and commemorate His initial act of creating all things in the beginning? What was the purpose of resting on the Sabbath? Was it not to give mankind, burdened under the toil that resulted from sin, a taste of that initial relationship between God and His creatures in the Garden of Eden…that initial participation in God’s eternal rest and the special relationship with God the Creator which that entails? One day of rest out of the week to remember and participate as best as possible in full communion with God, unencumbered by the curse of sin present every other day of the week in this fallen sinful world.
And this was the means of instruction that God used to teach His people about His original plan for mankind, and His plan of redemption for fallen mankind… thus all the other laws to teach mankind how to interact with each other and with God in a sinful, Post-Fall world. Yet through all of this period of history before the coming of The Messiah, there was the promise of The Messiah who would come and restore all. And at “the right time” God became a man, Jesus Christ, fully man and fully God. And He was able to teach mankind directly face to face, with the full authority of God because He is God. Now God, instead of communicating to mankind through the prophets, became man and dwelt among us and taught by His own words and His own actions. And ultimately offered Himself as the only sacrifice that could restore fallen mankind to its original intended relationship with God before the fall.
And Jesus, The Creator of mankind, offered Himself for, and redeemed, mankind. And I ask you, what means more to a fallen sinful human; the fact that God created a perfect world which became marred and disordered due to the sin of mankind, or, the fact that The Creator God gave up His glory and became a man to save and restore fallen, sinful, marred, and disordered mankind back to that original and perfect relationship in His perfect creation?
As God’s people awaited the Redeemer, The Messiah, God used the Sabbath to teach His people, and show the world that He is the True God because He is The Creator God. And once the Messiah, The Redeemer, The Creator, became a man and redeemed this world, He most assuredly restored and made possible His original plan for His relationship with mankind. He made certain that God’s Rest in a perfect creation would be restored…that special eternal relationship between God and His creatures. And now those redeemed from sin enter God’s Rest, made possible by Jesus Christ. God’s Rest that Paul talks about in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4.
And what is that day of rest called? It is called Today…which is everyday. And all who accept Jesus Christ, The Word of God made flesh by whom all things were created, and are in Him by His grace and through His Spirit, enter God’s Rest…the redemption and restoration of a pure and holy relationship with God. And in Jesus we find our true Sabbath rest each and every day.
Matthew 11: 27 “My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” 28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”
Hebrews 4: 6 So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. 7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:
“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts.”
8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. 10 For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.
It is no sin to rest and commemorate the Creator on the Sabbath. It is no sin to rest and commemorate the Creator and the Redeemer and the event of Redemption on Sunday. It is God’s will that we enter His Rest Today…which is everyday that we draw breath.
God bless all!!!
P
Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Hi Andrew,
Please read the following. It will give you a different perspective, as well as an accurate view of the “rock”. Jesus is the Cornerstone upon which all the other rocks and stones build The Church (Isa. 28:16-…)
catholic.com/library/Peter_the_Rock.asp
God bless all!!!
H
happilycatholic
Guest
H
happilycatholic
Guest
“We do not attack Catholics for worshipping on Sunday–again you were lied to and you believed them. Pastors in our church get up and tell the congregation that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s because they are living up to the light they know and too many SDA’s aren’t…” ~djconklin
Well, I guess this myth has been dispelled.
G’nite everyone.
Peace Be With You!
**Bless you friends! **
HC
Well, I guess this myth has been dispelled.
G’nite everyone.
Peace Be With You!
**Bless you friends! **
HC
A
andrea3710
Guest
Here is some interesting reading,words taken from Catholic church officials/members:
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).
“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”
“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome’s Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).
“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”
“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome’s Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.
A
andrea3710
Guest
cont…
Who Made Sunday Holy?
“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?”
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.”
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?”
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).
“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?”
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.
“Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday…Now the Church…instituted, by God’s authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About, 1927 edition, p. 136.
“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai…Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity–love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)…The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day…He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy…” The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
“Question. What warrant have you for keeping Sunday preferably to the ancient sabbath which was Saturday?
“Answer. We have for it the authority of the Catholic church and apostolic tradition.”
“Question. Does the Scripture anywhere command the Sunday to be kept for the Sabbath?”
“Answer. The Scripture commands us to hear the church (St.Matt.18:17; St. Luke 10:16), and to hold fast the traditions of the apostles. 2 Thess 2:15. But the Scripture does not in particular mention this change of the Sabbath.”
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power…People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.
“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day’? I answer no!”
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
“Question. - How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?”
“Answer. - By the very act of changing Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.”
“Question. - How prove you that?”
“Answer. - Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin: and by not keeping the rest by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.” An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, composed by Henry Tuberville, p. 58.”
Who Made Sunday Holy?
“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?”
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.”
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?”
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).
“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?”
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.
“Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday…Now the Church…instituted, by God’s authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About, 1927 edition, p. 136.
“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai…Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity–love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)…The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day…He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy…” The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
“Question. What warrant have you for keeping Sunday preferably to the ancient sabbath which was Saturday?
“Answer. We have for it the authority of the Catholic church and apostolic tradition.”
“Question. Does the Scripture anywhere command the Sunday to be kept for the Sabbath?”
“Answer. The Scripture commands us to hear the church (St.Matt.18:17; St. Luke 10:16), and to hold fast the traditions of the apostles. 2 Thess 2:15. But the Scripture does not in particular mention this change of the Sabbath.”
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power…People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.
“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day’? I answer no!”
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
“Question. - How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?”
“Answer. - By the very act of changing Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.”
“Question. - How prove you that?”
“Answer. - Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin: and by not keeping the rest by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.” An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, composed by Henry Tuberville, p. 58.”
A
andrea3710
Guest
cont…
“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.” John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.
“The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday…The Protestant World at its birth found the Christian Sabbath too strongly entrenched to run counter to its existence; it was therefore placed under the necessity of acquiescing in the arrangement, thus implying the (Catholic) Church’s right to change the day, for over three hundred years. The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant World.” James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983.
“Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“St John speaks of the Lord’s day (Rev 1:10) but he does not tell us what day of the week that was, much less does he tell us what day was to take the place of the Sabbath ordained in the commandments. St.Luke speaks of the disciples meeting together to break bread on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7. And St. Paul (1 Cor.16:2) orders that on the first day of the week the Corinthians should lay in store what they designated to bestow in charity on the faithful in Judea: but neither the one or the other tells us that this first day of the week was to be henceforth a day of worship, and the Christian Sabbath; so that truly the best authority we have for this ancient custom is the testimony of the church. And therefore those who pretend to be such religious observers of Sunday, whilst they take no notice of other festivals ordained by the same church authority, show that they act more by humor, than by religion; since Sundays and holidays all stand upon the same foundation, namely the ordinance of the (Roman Catholic) church.” Catholic Christian Instructed, 17th edition, p. 272-273.
Whose Day of Worship is Sunday?
“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles…From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.
“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason…The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance…The author of the Sunday law…is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.
“The Sunday…is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
“Sunday…is the law of the Catholic Church alone…” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.
Who do we Reverence Keeping Sunday Holy?
“Protestants…accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change…But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that…In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.
“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.” John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.
“The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday…The Protestant World at its birth found the Christian Sabbath too strongly entrenched to run counter to its existence; it was therefore placed under the necessity of acquiescing in the arrangement, thus implying the (Catholic) Church’s right to change the day, for over three hundred years. The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant World.” James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983.
“Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“St John speaks of the Lord’s day (Rev 1:10) but he does not tell us what day of the week that was, much less does he tell us what day was to take the place of the Sabbath ordained in the commandments. St.Luke speaks of the disciples meeting together to break bread on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7. And St. Paul (1 Cor.16:2) orders that on the first day of the week the Corinthians should lay in store what they designated to bestow in charity on the faithful in Judea: but neither the one or the other tells us that this first day of the week was to be henceforth a day of worship, and the Christian Sabbath; so that truly the best authority we have for this ancient custom is the testimony of the church. And therefore those who pretend to be such religious observers of Sunday, whilst they take no notice of other festivals ordained by the same church authority, show that they act more by humor, than by religion; since Sundays and holidays all stand upon the same foundation, namely the ordinance of the (Roman Catholic) church.” Catholic Christian Instructed, 17th edition, p. 272-273.
Whose Day of Worship is Sunday?
“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles…From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.
“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason…The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance…The author of the Sunday law…is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.
“The Sunday…is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
“Sunday…is the law of the Catholic Church alone…” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.
Who do we Reverence Keeping Sunday Holy?
“Protestants…accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change…But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that…In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.
A
andrea3710
Guest
- That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.” Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”
“The arguments…are firmly grounded on the word of God, and having been closely studied with the Bible in hand, leave no escape for the conscientious Protestant except the abandonment of Sunday worship and the return to Saturday, commanded by their teacher, the Bible, or, unwilling to abandon the tradition of the Catholic Church, which enjoins the keeping of Sunday, and which they have accepted in direct opposition to their teacher, the Bible, consistently accept her (the Catholic Church) in all her teachings. Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicism and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.” James Cardinal Gibbons, in Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.
“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.
“The (Roman Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.” The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.
“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
“I am going to propose a very plain and serious question to those who follow ‘the Bible and the Bible only’ to give their most earnest attention. It is this: Why don’t you keep holy the Sabbath day?..
“The command of the Almighty God stands clearly written in the Bible in these words: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work.’ Exodus 20:8-10…
“You will answer me, perhaps, that you do keep the Sabbath; for that you abstain from all worldly business and diligently go to church, and say your prayers, and read your Bible at home every Sunday of your lives…
“But Sunday is not the Sabbath day. Sunday is the first day of the week: the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. Almighty God did not give a commandment that men should keep holy one day in seven; but He named His own day, and said distinctly: ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’; and He assigned a reason for choosing this day rather than any other - a reason which belongs only to the seventh day of the week, and cannot be applied to the rest. He says, ‘For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it’, Exodus 20:11, Genesis 2:1-3. Almighty God ordered that all men should rest from their labor on the seventh day, because He too had rested on that day: He did not rest on Sunday, but on Saturday. On Sunday, which is the first day of the week, He began the work of creation; He did not finish it. It was on Saturday that He ‘ended His work which he had made: and God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.’ Genesis 2:2-3…
“Nothing can be more plain and easy to understand than all this; there is nobody who attempts to deny it. It is acknowledged by everybody that the day which Almighty God appointed to be kept holy was Saturday, not Sunday. Why do you then keep holy the Sunday and not Saturday?
“You will tell me that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed! But by whom? Who has the authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’, who shall dare to say, ‘Nay, thou mayest work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day: but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead?’ This is a most important question, which I know not how you answer…
“You are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a manner as the observance of one day in seven as the holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that day which the Bible has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the Ten Commandments; you believe that the other nine are still binding. Who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principles, if you really follow the Bible, and the Bible only you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.” Excerpts from “Why Don’t You Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?”, pages 3-15 in The Clifton Tract, vol. 4, published by the Roman Catholic Church 1869.
Seventh Day Sabbath Truth Conclusion
A
andrea3710
Guest
“The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God.”
Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary
“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17
“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.
“…the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.”
Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.
Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.
“We define that the Holy Apostolic See (the Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world.”
A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Philippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, “The Most Holy Councils,” col. 1167.
Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary
“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17
“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.
“…the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.”
Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.
Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.
“We define that the Holy Apostolic See (the Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world.”
A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Philippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, “The Most Holy Councils,” col. 1167.
A
andrea3710
Guest
This is something to laugh a little . Some are really exposing themselves with their words. This was written in defense to Catholic preaching that Peter was in Rome.
. And what the Bible tells us: to live that Babylon… And to the top,they preach they are church of God and we read in 2.Thessalonians 2;3,4 Let no one deceives you by any means for the Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the MAN of sin is revealed the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.
Read it everyone so you know that the code name for Babylon is Rome
. And what the Bible tells us: to live that Babylon… And to the top,they preach they are church of God and we read in 2.Thessalonians 2;3,4 Let no one deceives you by any means for the Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the MAN of sin is revealed the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.
P
Patrick_Murebil
Guest
It appears from the link below, that SDAs reverence Ellen White in similar ways in which Catholics reverence Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ.
sda2rc.blogspot.com/2009/03/veneration-of-dead.html#links
God bless all!!!
sda2rc.blogspot.com/2009/03/veneration-of-dead.html#links
God bless all!!!
S
Sabbath_Keeper
Guest
The fact that SDAs do not Pray to, nor ask for intercession of EGW, nor is it protrayed that she is a co-redemtirx to salvation make it a big difference.
P
Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Hi Sabbath Keeper,
Well yes, there is a big distinction to be sure. God did not choose Ellen White to be His Mother when He became a man at the Incarnation.
But why give flowers to a dead woman who believed that she wouldn’t even know about it?
God bless all!!!
D
djconklin
Guest
That assumes that we do so in the first place.
D
djconklin
Guest
I am told that there’s a Japanese proverb that applies here: if you believe everythoing you read, then you shouldn’t read. Pay very close attention to the first 5 characters after the “http://” in the web address.
- Status