Down With Sex

[porthos11]

Hmmm. Is this your best representation of Christian Charity? Regardless of how absurd someone acts or talks, it is not your place to cast stones. You should be ashamed of yourself! All in one post, you called him (or her) twisted, insulting, confused, blaming, nuts, and stupid. And threw a few jabs in on the parents and families. Think about that.

Peace,
Gordon

You’re right of course. Unfortunately, in this case, I don’t care too much. I’m angry, and can’t be told not to be. I have been more charitable in many cases, even apologetic. Not, however, to those who cause trouble. Many have replied kindly to him for MONTHS already myself included, but he persists. So if he refuses to listen, then it takes force to get him to back down.

Go through his posting history, and see the basis for my (and many others’) assessments.

I admire your charity, though. I, however, as a netizen, do not tolerate flamebaiting. Also, compared to this kind of obstinate behavior, I have much more respect for non-Catholics who conduct themselves in a respectable manner, such as Ozzie, c0ach, and jesusfreak. I have less patience for people such as this one, Kopsho/Mazar, and others, who claim to be Catholic but obstinately oppose the Church and her teaching authority. Therefore, they get flamed.

(I didn’t, however, jab at his family. I said I can’t believe his whole family is nuts or rephrase: I REFUSE to believe his entire family is nuts. They can’t be).

 

[chevalier]

cynic:

Holy thoughts have nothing to do with arousal, but if that’s what you feel when you look at the guy then fine, maybe the idea of having HIS children is part of attraction for women. To me though it sounds a little impersonal, that he could be anyone with similiar goals and beliefs to you (and catholic ofcourse) - a suitable marriage partner. It’s like making love to an idea, a value, a belief, and I’m not sure if that’s not just another form of repressing (or hiding) more needy and earthy feelings, and not just in terms of sex, but within the whole relationship. It’s as if you think we should ‘decide’ to love our spouses in a generalised form of love or goodwill, out of obligation, a mimicry of the way God loves us, but not in particular, cause any more might lead to infatuation, or emotional dependence. (ie the only person we should really be intimate with or dependant on is God) As I’ve said I just don’t like that way of looking at it.

But pray no. It would be impersonal if someone wanted children and it didn’t matter with whom. When a lady looks on a man and is able to see children looking in part like she and in part like he and the two of them caring after the younglings, it’s way different. It shows that marriage is the goal of the relationship.

There is something like a raw biological desire to bear a particular guy’s children because his genes look good (think about girls and young women talking about their male idols), but a good guy is one that has that something which makes the lady want to settle down and have kids.

I think they have a sense for it… they just look on you and know if you’re going to make a good husband or not.

 

[Fashina86]

elizabeth4truth:

I agree with what Anhus wrote. Also sex is not evil but evil will use sex to turn you away from God’s plan. Don’t buy the lie.

I agree too, that without marraige, sex is wrong. However, within marraige it is a beautiful expression of love and is not bad in any way unless it’s abused. Too much of a good thing can always turn into something bad.

 

[Black_Jaque]

again and again catholics insist that sex is tied to reproduction. It isn’t, at least not in our minds. The desire to have sex is not the desire to reproduce.

You speak like someone who has only had one or two children. Have a few more, you’ll learn.

If reproduction is not on a couple’s mind in the bedroom, what is prompting them to put on a condom?

Because there is a natural linkage between sex and reproduction, you can bet that if it doesn’t enter a couples mind early in their relationship, it will later. It’s part of the learning process.

Pregnancy and delivery are painful. And child rearing requires a lot of sacrifice. However, the blessings of parenthood far outweigh the drawbacks. If you learn to focus on those “blessings”, then having reproduction on your mind while you make love actually enhances sex.

In a way you are correct, at the beginning, a young couple may not be thinking of reproduction in the bedroom. But once a couple has had several children, they will learn. The difference between Catholic thought and Protestant thought is how they view this consciousness of procreation during love-making. Protestants seem to think of it as a wet blanket, whereas The Catholic Church wants her flock to understand that this blanket is soaked in gasoline.

And if you look at artificial contraception, the whole progression of birth control technology seems aimed at removing the reproductive “thought” from a couple’s mind. First condoms were no good because a couple has to think about the reproductive consequence during the heat of the moment. Then the pill was introduced so a couple (or just the woman) would only have to think of the reproductive consequence once a day outside the context of lovemaking. Now we have patches and shots that only require the thought once a month or less. AHHH that’s the way nature intended it! Right? RRRRNNNT! Wrong!

Children are a GOOD thing. Human life is sacred. That’s what this is all about.

Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred. Human life is sacred.

 

[Gordon_N]

porthos11:

Unfortunately, in this case, I don’t care too much. I’m angry, and can’t be told not to be.

Sure you can be told not to - I just did it!

porthos11:

I have been more charitable in many cases, even apologetic. Not, however, to those who cause trouble. Many have replied kindly to him for MONTHS already myself included, but he persists. So if he refuses to listen, then it takes force to get him to back down.

I wanted to waste a lot of space with some really deep, philospohical guidance, but I won’t. Live life. Love one another. Be an avtive apologist. If you can’t do one of those three things, let him be. If we all ignore absurd posts, and the author of such posts are only looking for a rise, will they continue to produce such weirdness? We know who the attention getters are on the forums…

porthos11:

Go through his posting history, and see the basis for my (and many others’) assessments.

I have. He has issues. Tell him you are praying for him, and then do it!

porthos11:

I admire your charity, though.

Thank you. It is a recently found blessing in my life! I need to use it more often - it is kind of cool…

porthos11:

I, however, as a netizen

I know you meant Catholic, or at least Christian…right?

porthos11:

do not tolerate flamebaiting. Also, compared to this kind of obstinate behavior, I have much more respect for non-Catholics who conduct themselves in a respectable manner, such as Ozzie, c0ach, and jesusfreak. I have less patience for people such as this one, Kopsho/Mazar, and others, who claim to be Catholic but obstinately oppose the Church and her teaching authority.

Teach the wayward in the firm and loving ways of our Lord.

porthos11:

Therefore, they get flamed.

Interesting phrase. Seen it, and used it a lot. Some of us run the potential of getting “flamed” in real life (or real death) and it is not through insulting arguement that we will see the error of our ways. Where is he (777) on God’s “flame-scale”? Is there anything that I can do to help reduce 777’s chances of getting flamed for real? That’s my new perspective.

Porthos11, I am not looking to start fights or take sides. I have been having PM conversations with people who are talking with 777 about his “issues”. He may just be a baiter, looking to cause strife. When they accomplish that, and create an uncharitable attitude that is publicly shown by good Catholic men and women(as these forums) our failures only serve to fuel the desire of those people to continue being weird and posting crazy non-Catholic thoughts.

Peace be with you!

Gordon

 

[Gordon_N]

Black Jaque:

If reproduction is not on a couple’s mind in the bedroom, what is prompting them to put on a condom?

Selfishness. That is what prompts people to use abc. Unfortunately, they are seperating themselved from God when they do this. Evil stuff, abc.

Peace,
Gordon

 

[Mijoy2]

In an odd way I agree with 777.

I’m not quite sure just what to think when it comes to what God expects from us with respect to sex.

There is something terribly wrong with the picture. Our sexual desires are way out of whack with our Catholic sexual responsibilities/ expectations. To be frank it often seems (I said “seems” so I hope I don’t get called a heretic) that creating us, then labeling our strongest, most enduring, and perpectual desire, a sin, to be a cruel joke.

In many ways and for many people, a lifetime of surpressing this desire is torture. I’ll go out on a limb again and suggest it is, in most cases, more perpetual, more non-ceasing, for men then for women.

God doesn’t make mistakes, but why did he create the power of the desire so much greater then the call of the purpose? What are his plans for us for eternity? If we are to remain people with gender in the life everlasting, will we live forever with a desire we must not fullfill? Will He remove the desire?

 

[Black_Jaque]

Gordon, I meant the reference to condoms to point out the fact that reproduction is indeed in the minds of a man and a woman when they are engaging in marital relations.

The problem is people have such a dimented view of children that when the thought of procreation enters their mind while in the bedroom - they think “Oh No!”

Because of this dimented view of human life (as something to avoid), procreation is seen as a wet blanket.

 

[Gordon_N]

Black Jaque:

Gordon, I meant the reference to condoms to point out the fact that reproduction is indeed in the minds of a man and a woman when they are engaging in marital relations.

The problem is people have such a dimented view of children that when the thought of procreation enters their mind while in the bedroom - they think “Oh No!”

Because of this dimented view of human life (as something to avoid), procreation is seen as a wet blanket.

I couldn’t agree with you more. That is the problem in the world today (one of them at least) - our views and lack of appreciation for children.

Reading back on you post, now it is obviously clear - Yes, they are thinking about children when using condoms! Thinking “Not me, Not this time”!

So sad.

Peace,

Gordon

 

[Black_Jaque]

Gordon, would it be safe to say, that a Catholic with a strong grasp of the Catholic sexual ethic would find their pulse jump just reading the following dialogue:

“Honey, you realize we will likely get pregnant doing this now? Are you sure you want to?”

“Yes!”
(Moderators: Forgive me, but I think under the circumstances this is the best way I can illustrate my point)

 

[Gordon_N]

Black Jaque:

Gordon, would it be safe to say, that a Catholic with a strong grasp of the Catholic sexual ethic would find their pulse jump just reading the following dialogue:

“Honey, you realize we will likely get pregnant doing this now? Are you sure you want to?”

“Yes!”
(Moderators: Forgive me, but I think under the circumstances this is the best way I can illustrate my point)

Well, initially, the answer is yes. Upon reflection of my own circumstasnces (especially when my wife and I first started practicing natural family planning, and I had to be reminded of phase II times vs phase III times), it is not such a pulse raising statement. The scenario that you present is a whole heck of a lot better than:
“Honey, you realize that we can get pregnant, are you sure that you want to?”
“Yes, you can always take your RU-486 tomorrow morning!”:bigyikes:

That is a purely distgusting thought in comparrison, but is one that I am sure happens in a normal day of one living the contraceptive lifestyle.

Peace,

Gordon

 

[Mom_of_one]

porthos11:

MAYBE?! His parents ARE wrong (if it’s REALLY his parents to blame)! And so is he! He has this twisted mentality that what God created not only as a means of biological reproduction, but even a sacramental act (which is a participation of divine life, no less). He insults God by insulting the beauty of his creation: the male and female human body, viewing it as something perverse, which it isn’t. He confuses pure sexual desire necessary between husband and wife with the lust that has no place in Christian society.

And most of all, when backed in, he ALWAYS blames his parents/family for putting this nonsense in his head.

I can’t believe a whole family is

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I think it’s just him. He should keep his stupidity to himself.

You wrote this in response to my post to 777. I certainly hope you aren’t angry with me!

And I can believe that a whole family is nuts! I’ve seen and experienced it! It’s called dysfunctional!

I stand by what I said.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.