Download a software is a sin?

[BlaineTog]

IF the license agreement on said music states the single use policy you outline, then it is neither illegal or immoral.
Else, it is both illegal and immoral.

Why? You’re trying to decide whether or not to give the company your money. What cause could they have to even object?

 

[vz71]

Why? You’re trying to decide whether or not to give the company your money. What cause could they have to even object?

It does not matter what their objection is.
It is their property, and the license agreement is written.

 

[He_Man]

That can not be a mortal sin. It is really nonsense. I do not think you are stealing anything if you download and use a pirate key for that software. The definition of stealing is to take something from somebody and the other person is left without that good. So the person is losing something. If a company offers a software to be downloaded and you have to buy the key but you don’t do it and instead provide a pirate key the company does not lose any money. Another thing is what they say, they suppose they lose a theoretical money because you COULD have bought that software. The same applies to copying songs. You are not stealing if somebody offers you for free a copy of a MP3 file and you copy it in your computer. The company does not lose any money by the fact that one can make a copy of a MP3 file because making a copy of that file does not cost anything to the company. Still one could argue that people COULD HAVE bought the music. But COULD HAVE can not be the basis of a moral act.
There is a difference what society and economical power call stealing and what stealing really is. Still a difficult issue but it looks to me that this is not stealing.
If a company gives a plasma TV for free and tells you that you can only use it if you buy a special key but you have a friend that has a copy of that key, do you still think you have stolen a plasma TV?

How convenient. It is only stealing if it hurts the other person? Nice rationalization.

There is freeware, there is shareware, and there are programs that need to be paid for properly.

 

[edwest2]

Well there are some things that I can’t go without but are just plain overpriced! I go to a private school and when it comes to submitting projects like Power Point presentations or even films, they’ve got a pretty fancy standard. Hard to make an impressive project without having to download various bgms to suit my teacher’s tastes.

Also, I’m studying to be a writer from anime, manga, and video games. Do you have any idea how rare (and expensive) the stuff I’ll be looking for when I need some material if I were to stay away from ‘pirating’?

No offense to Americans but my country probably has a higher percentage of poor people than yours (or else we wouldn’t be a ‘Third World Country’ any longer.)

Yes, I know how expensive it is. I know artists, writers and people in the video game industry. Your excuse is: We’ve got more poor people than your country so it makes it OK"?

God bless,
Ed

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, I know how expensive it is. I know artists, writers and people in the video game industry. Your excuse is: We’ve got more poor people than your country so it makes it OK"?

God bless,
Ed

Okay, I may have been a little vague with that.:banghead:

I meant to say that with my country’s current economy, it gets very difficult and pricy for me to get the materials I need for my career should I go with the ‘original only’ approach. And I’m learning this the hard way. My PS2 cannot play pirated games and I have to stick to buying original whether I like it or not. The result? I wind up having to do any of the following.

1. Wait for Christmas/my birthday and ask my parents to buy it for me as a gift.
2. Make a ‘special order’ with my relatives in the U.S. to buy the game for me. (PS2 games are cheaper there than here, last time I checked)
3. Wait for my next family trip to Hong Kong so I could buy cheaper (though still original) games there. (This happened on my first trip there XD)

As you can see, all three above are somewhat drastic. Imagine what would happen if i went ‘original only’ with anime dvds. Oi…(x_x)

 

[vz71]

I’m not saying I’m extravagant but it’s just that there are some things that my studies and my job require that people poorer than me aren’t required and these things (when bought as ‘original’) are expensive.

Well there are some things that I can’t go without but are just plain overpriced! I go to a private school and when it comes to submitting projects like Power Point presentations or even films, they’ve got a pretty fancy standard. Hard to make an impressive project without having to download various bgms to suit my teacher’s tastes.

My PS2 cannot play pirated games and I have to stick to buying original whether I like it or not.

So are we discussing games?
Are we discussing materials you need for legitimate classwork?

In either case, it is still illegal and immoral to utilize pirated software. But it sppears that the situation you projected is changing.

 

[BlaineTog]

It does not matter what their objection is.
It is their property, and the license agreement is written.

But you’re not taking their property, nor are you taking the potential income that their property would have garnered them. You’re previewing it, exactly as if you were flipping through a book in a bookstore.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So are we discussing games?
Are we discussing materials you need for legitimate classwork?

In either case, it is still illegal and immoral to utilize pirated software. But it sppears that the situation you projected is changing.

I mentioned in one post that I’m studying to be a writer for video games, anime, and manga (if you don’t know what those are kindly tell me now so I can explain).

I used video games as an example partly because it’s the only example I’ve got in my life and partly because I also use games as referrence when I’m writing.

 

[BlaineTog]

As you can see, all three above are somewhat drastic.

Yes, but you don’t have the right to own games. If they were food and you were starving it would be another matter, but you don’t need games.

 

[vz71]

But you’re not taking their property, nor are you taking the potential income that their property would have garnered them. You’re previewing it, exactly as if you were flipping through a book in a bookstore.

A more accurate analogy is you pilfer the book and take it home to decide if you want it or not.

Sorry, but it does not matter what you intend to do with the copy, the licensing and copyrights state that it should not be done.
Intent does not dictate the morality of the action in this case.

The claims can be made concerning potential incomes and advertising, and you may even be able to pursuade some people that it is the right way to go.
But unless you convince the copyright holders and they rewrite the copyright agreement, downloading the software is still a crime, and it is immoral.

 

[edwest2]

But you’re not taking their property, nor are you taking the potential income that their property would have garnered them. You’re previewing it, exactly as if you were flipping through a book in a bookstore.

If you are allowed to preview, no problem. But if you’re going out with the intent - God sees the heart - the intent of taking it (whatever it is) without permission. You are stealing. Period.

And if you are poor, why is theft your first or only choice? I work in the media. Sometimes we are contacted by people in prison, “HI, I’ve got no money. Can you send me something?” And sometimes, we send them something.

God bless,
Ed

 

[vz71]

I mentioned in one post that I’m studying to be a writer for video games, anime, and manga (if you don’t know what those are kindly tell me now so I can explain).

I used video games as an example partly because it’s the only example I’ve got in my life and partly because I also use games as referrence when I’m writing.

So you believe you have a right to these materials because they are helpful in doing well in class.
Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So you believe you have a right to these materials because they are helpful in doing well in class.
Am I understanding you correctly?

In a way. I mean, stuff like that is my inspiration. Sometimes I’m even asked by my teachers to submit my stories to them.

However, I’m not exactly saying I have a ‘right’. It’s just that obtaining ‘original’ stuff, given my country’s economy, is close to impossible. They’re not as easily obtainable here. I’m practically doing this out of desperation. Although, if I had managed to live in countries like the US or even Japan, I would’ve shifted to buying original immediately since prices for the stuff I need aren’t as expensive as they are here.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, but you don’t have the right to own games. If they were food and you were starving it would be another matter, but you don’t need games.

This is what I meant when I said ‘society makes it hard for you to have a simplistic lifestyle’.

Let me try this scenario.

On one hand, you have a ppor child. The child is raised in an environment where putting food on the table is the highest priority. When it comes to career, money is the first priority so he (or at least his parents) would be inclined to get a job based only on how much cash he’ll get. It doesn’t matter if the job is something he’s passionate about or not.

On the other hand is me. I’ve been raised feeling financially secure and while I don’t take that for granted, the way I’ve been raised has given me a deeper understanding of what it likes to do something not just for the sake of money. Problem is, the requirements I need for a career like that sorta have higher demands than you’d usually get if you were applying for a job at a grocery store.

 

[SoCalRC]

I would like to see any documents of the magistery available about this issue.

Try the Universal Catechism:

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art7.htm

For example, CCC 2406. Intellectual property is deemed property, both in the US and by international treaty.

Quite a few theologians, like Fr. Michael Prieur, have written articles on the subject. I have yet to find one that did not conclude that pirating music and software is “stealing”, hence subject to the Seventh Commandment.

 

[AHapka]

Any penance for such a sin should typically include destroying the pirated material. Otherwise no evidence of firm purpose of amendment.

Ok, what about this scenario…

I will admit that in the past I have illegally downloaded music. However, I did repent. Instead of deleting it, I purchased legal copies. Now since it’s a digital file, I didn’t feel I needed to break all of my old self-made CD’s and make new ones which would contain the exact same information (it is a digital file, after all).

Opinions?

 

[reggieM]

Ok, what about this scenario…

I will admit that in the past I have illegally downloaded music. However, I did repent. Instead of deleting it, I purchased legal copies. Now since it’s a digital file, I didn’t feel I needed to break all of my old self-made CD’s and make new ones which would contain the exact same information (it is a digital file, after all).

Opinions?

I can’t say for certain, but I would add something more to your repentance than just buying all of the music. It depends on how much you knew about the illegality of downloading – if you knew but did it anyway, then perhaps you should do some extra penance by redoing all of the old CDs or making some extra compensation that you don’t benefit from (buying a CD and donating it to someone).

 

[Holly3278]

Yes, that would be considered to be stealing. If you can’t afford some software and so instead you download the software for free, that is most definitely stealing.

If you want, I might be able to help you find some freeware that would do the same thing as the software you need. It is not a sin to download and use freeware because freeware is free (and legal) as the name suggests.

 

[Holly3278]

Okay, I may have been a little vague with that.:banghead:

I meant to say that with my country’s current economy, it gets very difficult and pricy for me to get the materials I need for my career should I go with the ‘original only’ approach. And I’m learning this the hard way. My PS2 cannot play pirated games and I have to stick to buying original whether I like it or not. The result? I wind up having to do any of the following.

1. Wait for Christmas/my birthday and ask my parents to buy it for me as a gift.
2. Make a ‘special order’ with my relatives in the U.S. to buy the game for me. (PS2 games are cheaper there than here, last time I checked)
3. Wait for my next family trip to Hong Kong so I could buy cheaper (though still original) games there. (This happened on my first trip there XD)

As you can see, all three above are somewhat drastic. Imagine what would happen if i went ‘original only’ with anime dvds. Oi…(x_x)

I personally don’t see what is so “drastic” about the situation. You are talking about games here. You don’t need games!

 

[BlaineTog]

A more accurate analogy is you pilfer the book and take it home to decide if you want it or not.

No, because you’re not taking any actual investment. The downloaded copy doesn’t cause them actual money loss, only potential.

Sorry, but it does not matter what you intend to do with the copy, the licensing and copyrights state that it should not be done.
Intent does not dictate the morality of the action in this case.

And I am drawing a distinction between legality and morality. I have said so numerous times. It is manifestly illegal. I’m not claiming otherwise.

If you are allowed to preview, no problem. But if you’re going out with the intent - God sees the heart - the intent of taking it (whatever it is) without permission. You are stealing. Period.

No, that’s just the point: you’re not taking it. Taking implies that you are assuming ownership. The digital copy on your computer, though, is ephemeral, a phantasm, a temporary situation, not yours, and you never treat it as yours.

On the other hand is me. I’ve been raised feeling financially secure and while I don’t take that for granted, the way I’ve been raised has given me a deeper understanding of what it likes to do something not just for the sake of money. Problem is, the requirements I need for a career like that sorta have higher demands than you’d usually get if you were applying for a job at a grocery store.

Understandable, but this doesn’t justify stealing. Now, if the software/what-have-you is actually required, like if the teacher assigns it, and you can’t buy it, then that would probably be ok as well, because what are you gonna do, but if you can buy it, you absolutely should. You should first, though, check with the teacher and explain your situation.