Download a software is a sin?

[whiteknite]

I’d like to add something to this and see where it goes…

With purchase of a new PC, I get a copy of XP Home edition.
I have purchased the license.

However, the PC manufacturer cannot or will not send the install CD’s to re-install the software.

Is it wrong to download the installation CD’s?
Why?

As long as you have your license key then to download the OS (Operating System) isnt an offence. Only useing a bootleg licence key is an offence…

 

[Harmony1988]

Yes downloading copyrighted software is a sin if there has been no permission granted in simple terms. I myself have used kazaa, imesh, napster, azureus, ares, limewire, bittorrent, bitcomet, you name it. I have stopped since several months ago.

They are stealing yes, music yes, especially if it’s studio songs. Videos, that’s debatable and depends on what it is.

 

[Harmony1988]

That can not be a mortal sin. It is really nonsense. I do not think you are stealing anything if you download and use a pirate key for that software. The definition of stealing is to take something from somebody and the other person is left without that good. So the person is losing something. If a company offers a software to be downloaded and you have to buy the key but you don’t do it and instead provide a pirate key the company does not lose any money. Another thing is what they say, they suppose they lose a theoretical money because you COULD have bought that software. The same applies to copying songs. You are not stealing if somebody offers you for free a copy of a MP3 file and you copy it in your computer. The company does not lose any money by the fact that one can make a copy of a MP3 file because making a copy of that file does not cost anything to the company. Still one could argue that people COULD HAVE bought the music. But COULD HAVE can not be the basis of a moral act.
There is a difference what society and economical power call stealing and what stealing really is. Still a difficult issue but it looks to me that this is not stealing.
If a company gives a plasma TV for free and tells you that you can only use it if you buy a special key but you have a friend that has a copy of that key, do you still think you have stolen a plasma TV?

Firstly there is no reason to make everything so big, it doesn’t help your argument, if anything it irritates everyone.

The definition of stealing does not include that the person is left without a good. Also the definition of stealing is different on the internet, I recommend you check the copyright law for music, videos and software, they aren’t the same as the laws for your store.

In simple terms, if you use something that requires payment to be used and you haven’t paid, it is theft, not only by legal definition, but also by common sense.

“The company does not lose any money by the fact that one can make a copy of a MP3 file because making a copy of that file does not cost anything to the company.” - The company may not have lost money, but the terms of use includes that you buy before you use it.

This is like nicking a cd from a store, copying the music and putting it back on the shelf. Doesn’t work mate.

“There is a difference what society and economical power call stealing and what stealing really is. Still a difficult issue but it looks to me that this is not stealing.” - This doesn’t make sense and I recommend you check legal definitions before trying to use terms that you find ‘difficult’ and hence confusing others because you aren’t stating it correctly.

I don’t know if you have done this lately, but open a CD cover and take look at the CD or liner notes. What does it say?

UNAUTHORIZED COPYING etc etc is punishable by law etc etc. depends on the wording from country to country but you get my point. If you don’t have a license to distribute it, by law and by common sense you have done something illegal.

 

[vz71]

As long as you have your license key then to download the OS (Operating System) isnt an offence. Only useing a bootleg licence key is an offence…

Quite right.
But the industry can (and does) claim otherwise.

I have used the same XP license for years. Upgraded my PC 7 or 8 times, and moved the license over with it. Each time, I have to call for a new validation key, They get progressively more reluctant to provide the key under the guise that I should have purchased a new OS with each machine.

 

[whiteknite]

Quite right.
But the industry can (and does) claim otherwise.

I have used the same XP license for years. Upgraded my PC 7 or 8 times, and moved the license over with it. Each time, I have to call for a new validation key, They get progressively more reluctant to provide the key under the guise that I should have purchased a new OS with each machine.

Did your new Pc’s come brand new??
If so and had an OS built on it then it should have the key wrote on the side or under neath…

 

[BlaineTog]

So if anyone who downloads something from peer-to-peer site such as Limewire, Kazaa, Emule, etc is sinful?

Generally. I think its ok to download something on a trial basis: if you genuinely intend to purchase the item if you like it enough and will delete it promptly if you don’t, then what you’re doing isn’t really any different from paging through a book in the bookstore.

 

[vz71]

Did your new Pc’s come brand new??
If so and had an OS built on it then it should have the key wrote on the side or under neath…

True, but if you build your PC from scratch, the OS is extra.
Unless you have a license already.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t wanna hijack this thread but I have a question about this too.

How about those people who live in Third World countries where the general populace (the poor) care more about buying food and people who sell other things like computers and software charge insanely high prices? Where pirated software and pirated DVD movies are a common commodity?

I mean, my family’s pretty much middle class but even we buy pirated DVDs and CDs because original ones are so overpriced!

 

[Harmony1988]

Generally. I think its ok to download something on a trial basis: if you genuinely intend to purchase the item if you like it enough and will delete it promptly if you don’t, then what you’re doing isn’t really any different from paging through a book in the bookstore.

Trials exist as demos in software terms and music clips on amazon or itunes, so it’s not generally ok, nor has it ever been

 

[whiteknite]

True, but if you build your PC from scratch, the OS is extra.
Unless you have a license already.

Yeah! Thats true, Then thats the akward part about OS software… I have built 2 Pc’s and used the same OS on both but the 3rd wouldnt accept the key, So i suppose 2 is better that 1 in the long run…

 

[BlaineTog]

Trials exist as demos in software terms and music clips on amazon or itunes, so it’s not generally ok, nor has it ever been

Those aren’t always available, nor are they always helpful, particularly with long songs.

I’m not saying it’s legal to download stuff, because it certainly isn’t. I’m saying it isn’t immoral under certain circumstances.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t wanna hijack this thread but I have a question about this too.

How about those people who live in Third World countries where the general populace (the poor) care more about buying food and people who sell other things like computers and software charge insanely high prices? Where pirated software and pirated DVD movies are a common commodity?

I mean, my family’s pretty much middle class but even we buy pirated DVDs and CDs because original ones are so overpriced!

Overpriced? Who decided that? If I have no money to buy something, I just don’t buy it. Going without is a Christian virtue. Just because I think I deserve something for any reason doesn’t mean I should steal.

There are very poor people in the United States. Instead of walking into stores and taking food and drink, they go to soup kitchens or wait on street corners hoping someone would give them a little money. They even beg.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Harmony1988]

Those aren’t always available, nor are they always helpful, particularly with long songs.

I’m not saying it’s legal to download stuff, because it certainly isn’t. I’m saying it isn’t immoral under certain circumstances.

Copyright belongs to the copyright holder and that happens to be the record companies, they insist payment before the use of their songs or whatever unless they have a licensed distributor allowing demos and such.

Hence if you download them, it is illegal, you can’t just dance around the point setting what is immoral and what is not. It’s theirs to distribute and license, not the general public.

I don’t know what you mean by it isn’t legal but it’s not immoral, what are these certain circumstances ?

 

[BlaineTog]

Copyright belongs to the copyright holder and that happens to be the record companies, they insist payment before the use of their songs or whatever unless they have a licensed distributor allowing demos and such.

Hence if you download them, it is illegal, you can’t just dance around the point setting what is immoral and what is not. It’s theirs to distribute and license, not the general public.

Perhaps I was unclear: downloading materials online that the copyright holder doesn’t allow you to is unequivocally illegal. However, “illegal” doesn’t necessarily mean “immoral.”

I don’t know what you mean by it isn’t legal but it’s not immoral, what are these certain circumstances ?

I spelled them out above. Downloading something so you don’t have to pay for it is stealing, and thus immoral. Downloading something because you want to see whether or not you want to buy it legally, on the other hand, is ok.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Overpriced? Who decided that? If I have no money to buy something, I just don’t buy it. Going without is a Christian virtue. Just because I think I deserve something for any reason doesn’t mean I should steal.

There are very poor people in the United States. Instead of walking into stores and taking food and drink, they go to soup kitchens or wait on street corners hoping someone would give them a little money. They even beg.

God bless,
Ed

Well there are some things that I can’t go without but are just plain overpriced! I go to a private school and when it comes to submitting projects like Power Point presentations or even films, they’ve got a pretty fancy standard. Hard to make an impressive project without having to download various bgms to suit my teacher’s tastes.

Also, I’m studying to be a writer from anime, manga, and video games. Do you have any idea how rare (and expensive) the stuff I’ll be looking for when I need some material if I were to stay away from ‘pirating’?

No offense to Americans but my country probably has a higher percentage of poor people than yours (or else we wouldn’t be a ‘Third World Country’ any longer.)

 

[vz71]

Yeah! Thats true, Then thats the akward part about OS software… I have built 2 Pc’s and used the same OS on both but the 3rd wouldnt accept the key, So i suppose 2 is better that 1 in the long run…

Ran into that a couple of times. Apparently there were not enough hardware changes with one upgrade to trigger the verification process.

 

[vz71]

How about those people who live in Third World countries where the general populace (the poor) care more about buying food and people who sell other things like computers and software charge insanely high prices?

Were you speaking of a necessity to life, there may be a point.
However, you are not. You are speaking of luxury items.

Whatever price one wants to charge is perfectly within their right.
Efforts to subvert their price through piracy are immoral.

 

[vz71]

Downloading something because you want to see whether or not you want to buy it legally, on the other hand, is ok.

IF the license agreement on said music states the single use policy you outline, then it is neither illegal or immoral.
Else, it is both illegal and immoral.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Were you speaking of a necessity to life, there may be a point.
However, you are not. You are speaking of luxury items.

Whatever price one wants to charge is perfectly within their right.
Efforts to subvert their price through piracy are immoral.

I’m not saying I’m extravagant but it’s just that there are some things that my studies and my job require that people poorer than me aren’t required and these things (when bought as ‘original’) are expensive. That’s the tricky thing about being middle class here. You recognize the importance of being thrifty yet at the same time society makes you incapable of having a simplistic lifestyle because of your status. For example, you’re a middle class student who attends a private school and you’re suddenly given a project that requires music or you have to watch a particular movie that’s only available as a pirated DVD, that qualifies it as both a luxury and a neccessity. Unless the companies who have created the original stuff find ways to make their products more affordable to the population, I’m afraid you’re gonna have to deal with seeing pirated goods being sold on the streets here.

 

[newbetx]

I’d like to add something to this and see where it goes…

With purchase of a new PC, I get a copy of XP Home edition.
I have purchased the license.

However, the PC manufacturer cannot or will not send the install CD’s to re-install the software.

Is it wrong to download the installation CD’s?
Why?

NO. You HAVE a license. It came with your PC. Most PC’s have a copy of the installation on them that you can bring back up again… I did have to have my mfg send me the CDs because the program in it did not work.

Microsoft ran into trouble for a while because it was charging a license fee for every PC built whether it had windows or not. I don’t know if that is still the process, these days.

With the advent of XP, I understand, the OS was licensed not just to just the PC, but to the processor in it. So I am not sure that one is “allowed” to migrate it to a different PC.