Download a software is a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MTV007
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MTV007

Guest
If you couldn’t afford to buy an expensive software and download it free from a website. Then is it committed a sin of stealing?
 
yes if it is copyright protected and the site is enabling the download for the express purpose of evading copyright laws. depending on the value of the software and the extent of the theft, it could be a mortal sin.
 
So if anyone who downloads something from peer-to-peer site such as Limewire, Kazaa, Emule, etc is sinful?
 
i have no knowledge of those sites, but if you download something from any site or from anyone who has not paid for the rights to allow that download, it is stealing. Since the key is obviously what site you are using, what software you are downloading, and what rights have been paid for, a specific answer is not possible. You asked a general question which I answered. If you take something, by any means, which does not belong to you, which you have no right to, and which deprives someone else of payment for their work, whether you photocopy a book or download software or burn a CD, you are stealing.
 
That can not be a mortal sin. It is really nonsense. I do not think you are stealing anything if you download and use a pirate key for that software. The definition of stealing is to take something from somebody and the other person is left without that good. So the person is losing something. If a company offers a software to be downloaded and you have to buy the key but you don’t do it and instead provide a pirate key the company does not lose any money. Another thing is what they say, they suppose they lose a theoretical money because you COULD have bought that software. The same applies to copying songs. You are not stealing if somebody offers you for free a copy of a MP3 file and you copy it in your computer. The company does not lose any money by the fact that one can make a copy of a MP3 file because making a copy of that file does not cost anything to the company. Still one could argue that people COULD HAVE bought the music. But COULD HAVE can not be the basis of a moral act.
There is a difference what society and economical power call stealing and what stealing really is. Still a difficult issue but it looks to me that this is not stealing.
If a company gives a plasma TV for free and tells you that you can only use it if you buy a special key but you have a friend that has a copy of that key, do you still think you have stolen a plasma TV?
 
josea said:
That can not be a mortal sin. It is really nonsense. I do not think you are stealing anything if you download and use a pirate key for that software. The definition of stealing is to take something from somebody and the other person is left without that good. So the person is losing something. If a company offers a software to be downloaded and you have to buy the key but you don’t do it and instead provide a pirate key the company does not lose any money. Another thing is what they say, they suppose they lose a theoretical money because you COULD have bought that software. The same applies to copying songs. You are not stealing if somebody offers you for free a copy of a MP3 file and you copy it in your computer. The company does not lose any money by the fact that one can make a copy of a MP3 file because making a copy of that file does not cost anything to the company. Still one could argue that people COULD HAVE bought the music. But COULD HAVE can not be the basis of a moral act.
There is a difference what society and economical power call stealing and what stealing really is. Still a difficult issue but it looks to me that this is not stealing.
If a company gives a plasma TV for free and tells you that you can only use it if you buy a special key but you have a friend that has a copy of that key, do you still think you have stolen a plasma TV?
Click to expand...
What are you trying to justify?

If the content of what you are downloading rightfull belongs to an original owner. And that owner is expecting payment for that content. If you get a “free” copy from someone without making that payment, it is theft. Pretty simple.

Say you had copies of a progam you worked hard to make. And you wanted to sell at least 500 of them for $100 each to make up for your time invested in it. But I paid you $100 for one copy but make it obvious to everyone that I would allow them copies of my copy for free so that YOU would not get any more sales. What is that?

You go into a store. They have a nice print on the wall for $50. You take it to the back of the store, put it the color copier, make yourself a copy and walk out. Is that stealing?

If something is intended to be free, the originator would be providing it for free or approving it for free from other sources. One can justify their way to hell in many ways.
 
What about the money the developer would get from the purchase of this software? Or the money the musician would have made from the sale of a cd? He/She is the intellectual owner of the software/music and has expenses just like the rest of us… kids to feed, bills to pay… and by you downloading it from a pirate site like kazaa or limewire and using a generated key, you are depriving this person of the income they deserve from their toil and depriving them and their families as well… and what about the technical support staff??? I worked in software support for years… if nobody bought our product because they could get it free online, then I would not have a job and a way to feed my kids?

Of course it is stealing… just because there is still an original copy out there doesn’t make it not so… I have no idea where you got that idea. If I put a splitter in my neighbors cable and run it over to my house, I am still stealing even though my neighbor still has the use of it… I am stealing from the cable company and from all the people who use the service because their rates could go up to pay for people like me who don’t pay…
 
Josea, I have to disagree with your statement that it can’t be a mortal sin. It most certainly can be one, however it is not always one.

I could go on about this for a long while as I’m a programmer in both the commercial world and the Free/Open Source world. The key here as others have said is copyright. Copyright means ownership of the idea, such as the words of a book. The author owns the story while you own the paper it’s printed on.

I think that while taking software is something to be avoided, the real serious sin is greed. We covet a new game, we can’t afford that game so we download a copy of it because we want it, we feel that we have to have it! That is when taking software does become a mortal sin.

While I have little tolerance of the price gouging that software companies, and music companies pass off as fair to us, I respect their right (legal nor moral) to do so. I will admit that I still download stuff, but most of my stuff is freebies. Almost any song you want is up on youtube (legally by the record companies most times) and clones of many programs are legally available via sourceforge.net.

I try my best to function legally in a world of digital theft. it’s hard but as Fr Serpa says often “We’re talking about your eternal soul here” is a free game really worth spending eternity in Hell or even just one more day in Purgatory? I don’t think so.

Ed
 
Are you telling me that if a friend is coming to my house with a CD with MP3 files and i make a copy of it I am committing mortal sin???

Are all people that have a pirat copy of Windows going to hell???

What is this all about?

This is legally stealing morally it is not.
 
This forum is still in need of a general statement from a legal professional who is an expert in intellectual property rights on the subject of downloading software, music, videos, etc.

Copyrighted materials belong to the copyright owner, who must be compensated for his/her efforts in creating and publishing the material. “Pirating” copies is theft according to copyright laws and Catholic moral theology calls breaking just laws of the land sinful behavior. So go ahead and download all you want from wherever you want. Just be aware that you’re on the skids to a long, warm vacation spot. Any penance for such a sin should typically include destroying the pirated material. Otherwise no evidence of firm purpose of amendment.

Matthew
 
As someone who works in the media, I am familiar with copyright law. And I am also familiar with the words of Christ when he speaks about upholding the letter of the law but violating the spirit of the law.

This is a Catholic forum with morality derived from Biblical truth. No other definition of morality applies.

All peer-to-peer file sharing sites are aiding and abetting sin. The Harry Potter books were on such sites within days of release. I personally saw copyright work on one such site that I know was in violation of the intellectual propery rights of the owner. It is very black and white.

Marvel Comics recently went after such a file sharing site. Why? Because they want to make money on the internet and this illegal site was illegally copying their work. The site’s response to Marvel’s legal department? “You can’t get us. Our server is in another country.” They got them and that company had to work out an arrangement with Marvel.

The Japanese company Toei which owns the rights to Godzilla, shut down a bunch of internet sites for copyright infringement. The rule is simple, and black and white: if it’s not yours, don’t steal it.

God bless,
Ed
 
There you have it Josea… you have heard from a programmer, a software support person, and a media expert… and we all said stealing through download from p2p sites is sinful… what more do you want? I had a whole semester in college on copyright laws and what they mean… which has helped me immensely in my current career with copyrighting and patenting our software and processes and our inventions… I would advise prosecution to anyone who stole our products or our intellectual properties… because it could cost us everything including our businesses… and for me that would include my livelihood.
 
BlestOne said:
There you have it Josea… you have heard from a programmer, a software support person, and a media expert… and we all said stealing through download from p2p sites is sinful… what more do you want? I had a whole semester in college on copyright laws and what they mean… which has helped me immensely in my current career with copyrighting and patenting our software and processes and our inventions… I would advise prosecution to anyone who stole our products or our intellectual properties… because it could cost us everything including our businesses… and for me that would include my livelihood.
Click to expand...
Yes, you said it: I have heard from people that are in the business. I did not heard from a theologian. I still think this issue is not a moral issue but an economical one. In some countries you are allowed to copy software and use P2P networks to download music and it is legal… so is in those country this practice not a sin? Or is it a sin but it is legal?

This is a nonsense.
 
I would like to see any documents of the magistery available about this issue.
 
What if identity thief hackers use this argument in saying that all they are doing is copying what they find about a person on the internet and using it for themsleves. Although this does not directly relate it’s kind of similar. The identity thief steals our personal lives, the ultimate personal property, and uses it for their free gain. People that illegally download software, movies, music, etc., likewise also are stealing property for their own personal gain to avoid paying. Now I admit I did this all the time when I was a teenager but now realize it was wrong.

Oh, and in countries where this is legal, the people who make the music I assume are aware of this and therefore are consenting to it and it would therefore not be stealing. This would not be the case in most situations in this country.
 
What I am saying is that we were recording films from tv since years on video tapes and recording tapes from radio aswell. What is the difference now copying a MP3 file?
Copying was and is copying, New times, new technology. But, please, do not invent new sins…
 
josea said:
That can not be a mortal sin.
Click to expand...
It is stealing, but the question of it being a mortal sin depends on the circumstances. Remember that a mortal sin must be intentionally done with full knowledge that it is grievious.

I used to download from Kazaa, but once I confirmed to myself that it was stealing I quit. Call it youthful ignorance. When music filesharing first started no one thought anything about it, but once the RIAA presented their case that it was in fact stealing - one could no longer excuse themselves to being none the wiser.

So, now that we have had this conversation, our fellow forum friends understand that acquiring goods from the internet without paying for them IS a sin, and stealing is one of the big ten no-no’s, I think the severity of the sin will now be mortal.

So don’t do it anymore.
 
josea said:
What I am saying is that we were recording films from tv since years on video tapes and recording tapes from radio aswell. What is the difference now copying a MP3 file?
Copying was and is copying, New times, new technology. But, please, do not invent new sins…
Click to expand...
Haven’t you ever seen those big FBI warnings on the front of movies? Or how the TV announcers state that no reproductions of the sporting event can occur without the express permission of the network? Some TV and all movies are copyright protected. If they say it’s protected, it’s protected.

Distributors of MP3 music have EXPLICITLY stated that copying their music is stealing. They have sued thousands to prove their point.

Just because you perceive this to be a victimless crime, if indeed you view it to be a crime at all, doesn’t mean that your perception is the correct one. I recommend you not take our word for it, but instead pray on the subject and ask your parish priest. Both of them will probably tell you the same thing as we have, but without being as condescending.😉
 
I’d like to add something to this and see where it goes…

With purchase of a new PC, I get a copy of XP Home edition.
I have purchased the license.

However, the PC manufacturer cannot or will not send the install CD’s to re-install the software.

Is it wrong to download the installation CD’s?
Why?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top