Dr. Laura

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Hi!

I listen to her a lot, and received this book from my now husband, back when we were only long distance friends. 👍

You will enjoy this book as long as you have a receiving and open mind about it. You have to be ready to get some truth into you, and not be sarcastic or deffensive about her points. Feminists might not like it, as it does give much reasoning behind why is it that women pull their way while men are trying to be “our knights in shining armor”.

It will be of great assistance, but you have to read it all and take it to heart.
 
SaltySirena said:
I never said his alcoholism wasn’t his fault. That is his failing, his inappropriate and destructive choice.

The only thing I hold the spouse of an alcoholic responsible for is their choices in reaction to the addiction. Do they make choices based on that reality, defensively as it were?

Or do they ignore the addiction, pretend it’s not there, and keep making choices as if their spouse were healthy and normal? Because that is the inappropriate and destructive choice for the non-addicted spouse to make.
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Do you have any experience with people with addictions Sirena? Of course I tried everything to help him get better. That would be the goal right? You don’t jump ship from a marriage at the first or twenty-first sign of trouble do you? So, you go through good times when he is trying and then it gets bad again. Then he may try again… it doesn’t last as long unfortunately. The addict has to want to get better. You can’t force anyone to do anything.

If you are referring to me deciding to have the boys? They were meant to be… ok? Please don’t question whether my children should exist. Their lives are just as important as yours.
 
Amen Jim G and Salty regarding telling the child that he/she was conceived of adultery.

Sometimes, depending on the circumstances, it is better left unsaid. Depending on the husband, it would be great if he could be told and raise the child as his own, if not, don’t tell.
 
JimG said:
I’ve seen opinions on this from both sides. I know of one instance where a man cheated on his wife by having a one night stand. He was repentant and ashamed. He confided in a male friend, who advised him to keep it to himself and never bring it up again, not to his wife, not to anyone except his confessor.

But he insisted that he must tell his wife. His conscience was burdened. He did tell her. The marriage ended. The children ended up with separated parents. Had he not disclosed this sin, his marriage would have endured.

It seems to me that he disclosed the sin to his wife mainly to unburden himself, not for the sake of honesty. In doing so, he unburdened his conscience but destroyed his marriage.
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yes, but how do you know that the marriage wouldn’t have ended for another reason down the road. i am sure everyday there is a man somewhere in the world cheating on his wife and a lot of these men will choose not to tell their wife because they want to get away with it. and a lot of men will continue to cheat on their wives. but cheating on your wife is not the same thing as getting pregnant by another man and concealing that fact from your spouse and child.
 
7_Sorrows said:
yes, but how do you know that the marriage wouldn’t have ended for another reason down the road. i am sure everyday there is a man somewhere in the world cheating on his wife and a lot of these men will choose not to tell their wife because they want to get away with it. and a lot of men will continue to cheat on their wives. but cheating on your wife is not the same thing as getting pregnant by another man and concealing that fact from your spouse and child.
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I don’t know, having no personal experience with it whatsoever. If a man, or a woman, intends to continue cheating, the marriage may be doomed anyway. But if it was truly a one-time indiscretion, even a one-time indiscretion resulting in pregnancy, there is no point in punishing one’s husband (or wife) and children for one’s own sin, simply for the purpose of unburdening one’s own conscience, if the marriage is otherwise salvageable.

The question to be asked is, what will cause the least hurt to my spouse and children?
 
SamH said:
I agree. I listened to her on and off for a while and thought her advice was pretty basic considering most of it I heard my entire life while growing up. But one bit of advice she gave I hated and decided if that was her “values” (this was before her pictures in Hustler and the revelation about her mom) I had no use for her. A woman called in saying that she knew her baby wasn’t her husband’s and she asked if she should tell him. “Dr” Laura blasted her asking her who would benefit from knowing? She said the best thing should could do for herself and her baby was keep it a secret. I haven’t listened to her since.
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*Well, you know the old saying…you get what you pay for…and her advice is free…so…lol

I remember the whole Hustler thing…and I remember her talking about that. I think everyone makes mistakes…I can’t and won’t judge Dr Laura, but she’s just not my cup of tea, anymore.

I’m on vacation in the 'burgh…just wanted to pop in and give my two cents. 👋*
 
JimG said:
I don’t know, having no personal experience with it whatsoever. If a man, or a woman, intends to continue cheating, the marriage may be doomed anyway. But if it was truly a one-time indiscretion, even a one-time indiscretion resulting in pregnancy, there is no point in punishing one’s husband (or wife) and children for one’s own sin, simply for the purpose of unburdening one’s own conscience, if the marriage is otherwise salvageable.

The question to be asked is, what will cause the least hurt to my spouse and children?
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no, the big question should be do i want to live for the rest of my life with a deception this big. i think no matter what, the spouse and children would be hurt in some way. in a marriage without children, it would be different. but if there is an affair and a pregnancy, that is different. say for example a husband has an affair and the woman ends up pregnant and decides to keep the child. does this man keep this woman and child a secret from his family? for all you know, the example you gave in the other post, there could have been other things in the marriage that he was not telling you about and when he told his wife about his affair, it was the final straw. the child has a right to know his or her own history. i would feel a sense of betrayal and deception if i had grown up all my life thinking the man i called dad was not really my dad. no one likes to be made a fool of and there is to greater betrayal than a lie.
 
7_Sorrows said:
no, the big question should be do i want to live for the rest of my life with a deception this big.
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See, you just proved right there… your concern in this scenario is for yourself. You don’t want to carry the burden.

When you start thinking about the pain and destruction on the other side, you will understand what we are saying.
 
SaltySirena said:
See, you just proved right there… your concern in this scenario is for yourself. You don’t want to carry the burden.

When you start thinking about the pain and destruction on the other side, you will understand what we are saying.
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no, you are totally missing the point! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: the burden you are talking about is the sin itself, i am referring to the burden as the secret being withheld from the spouse and the child - the deception, the lie.
of course, there will be pain no matter which scenario you choose, but that is the consequence of sin. sin doesn’t just hurt us, it hurts everyone around us. i am saying that deception causes more pain and destruction than the truth. if someone is told the truth up front, they can deal with it. if something is kept hidden for many years and then the truth comes out later, there WILL be pain and destruction.
if i had a child who came home and said a priest was sexually abusing him at church, i wouldn’t tell that child that he needs to carry the cross alone because by coming forth and going to the authorities will bring pain and destruction upon this priest or if my child came home from school and reported that he or she was being abused by a teacher, i wouldn’t say, “too bad! that is a cross you will have to carry. whatever you do, don’t tell anyone!”
you can’t live in denial and create some imaginary world. eventually, that world will come crashing down. i have explained my point and don’t intend to say more.
 
What the???

Okay, no one here is saying the VICTIM should keep secrets. Also, none of our scenarios involved CRIMES. I think you are getting emotional and it is rendering you a bit incoherent. The comparisons you are making make absolutely no sense.

We’re saying that the perpetrator of the wrong should bear the burden of guilt and suffering alone, if possible, in order to avoid further victimizing anyone.

A repentant adulterer sparing their spouse pain and suffering has nothing to do with child sexual abuse. How on God’s green Earth did you make THAT leap?
 
SaltySirena said:
What the???

Okay, no one here is saying the VICTIM should keep secrets. Also, none of our scenarios involved CRIMES. I think you are getting emotional and it is rendering you a bit incoherent. The comparisons you are making make absolutely no sense.

We’re saying that the perpetrator of the wrong should bear the burden of guilt and suffering alone, if possible, in order to avoid further victimizing anyone.

A repentant adulterer sparing their spouse pain and suffering has nothing to do with child sexual abuse. How on God’s green Earth did you make THAT leap?
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i am not getting emotional, whether it is the victim or the perpetrator, you are covering something up. it doesn’t have anything to do with burden of guilt. it is in the cover up -
the secret being guarded - the truth being hidden. i am not talking about burden of guilt,
so please move on from that. i am saying that it is better to lay the cards out on the table and be up front about what has happened.
child sexual abuse and cheating on your spouse both involve keeping secrets. keeping secrets is harmful. i don’t believe in deception, but obviously you think it is okay.
 
Each case is different. If it is not possible to avoid hurting the innocent spouse and children further, then it will happen.

I was making reference to a situation in which the spouse and children might have been spared grief by making one’s confession to a priest rather than to the victims who did not know of the situation. In that case, not confessing the sin to the spouse would have saved the marriage. The husband I was speaking of confessed the sin, not for the sake of his wife or children, but merely for the sake of unburdening himself, and in the process destroyed his marriage.

Spouses don’t make a custom of going to confession together, or of confessing their sins to each other first before confessing them to the priest.

Certainly, infidelity might become known, especially if it is ongoing. And if it is ongoing, there may be no way of saving the marriage because there is no repentance.

A one night stand is a serious matter and must be confessed–in the sacrament of confession. If it is more than a one night stand, then there is likely no repentance in any case, and the marriage is doomed.

There are not many cases in which we are entitled to know the sins of others. (See the catechism on detraction.) Marital infidelity might be one of them, but only if it is for the best for all parties.

Does a husband tell his wife everything he said to the priest in confession? Does a wife disclose her confession to her husband?

I’ll give another example in which no sin occurred, but the principle is similar. A friend of mine at a business conference was propositioned by a woman who was there. He declined. He never mentioned this incident to his spouse. It would only have disturbed her peace. But had he given in to the temptation, he also would not have mentioned it, because it would only have caused her grief.

Finally, one more example–more trivial than infidelity. Suppose a wife is having trouble with romantic or lustful thoughts about a coworker. Does she confess this to her husband? No. If a husband has temptations to lust with his female coworker–and is resisting them, he confesses sins of lust in confession but does not disturb the due equanimity of his wife.
 
JimG said:
Each case is different. If it is not possible to avoid hurting the innocent spouse and children further, then it will happen.

I was making reference to a situation in which the spouse and children might have been spared grief by making one’s confession to a priest rather than to the victims who did not know of the situation. In that case, not confessing the sin to the spouse would have saved the marriage. The husband I was speaking of confessed the sin, not for the sake of his wife or children, but merely for the sake of unburdening himself, and in the process destroyed his marriage.

Spouses don’t make a custom of going to confession together, or of confessing their sins to each other first before confessing them to the priest.

Certainly, infidelity might become known, especially if it is ongoing. And if it is ongoing, there may be no way of saving the marriage because there is no repentance.

A one night stand is a serious matter and must be confessed–in the sacrament of confession. If it is more than a one night stand, then there is likely no repentance in any case, and the marriage is doomed.

There are not many cases in which we are entitled to know the sins of others. (See the catechism on detraction.) Marital infidelity might be one of them, but only if it is for the best for all parties.

Does a husband tell his wife everything he said to the priest in confession? Does a wife disclose her confession to her husband?

I’ll give another example in which no sin occurred, but the principle is similar. A friend of mine at a business conference was propositioned by a woman who was there. He declined. He never mentioned this incident to his spouse. It would only have disturbed her peace. But had he given in to the temptation, he also would not have mentioned it, because it would only have caused her grief.
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the example you gave at the end is a little different because this person was mature and didn’t act in response to the proposition. i think for a marriage to work, there must be trust between the two people. i just know that if i really loved my spouse, there is no way i would ever want to deceive him especially with something so grave as getting pregnant by another man. i would hope i would have respect and love for this person to tell him the truth and to not deceive him by letting him think the baby was his. it doesn’t have anything to do with bearing the cross alone - it is about honesty and respect for the other person. so that was my complaint against what the person said she heard Dr. Laura advise the caller - in a marriage, i don’t believe deception is good. there has to be trust.
 
7_Sorrows said:
the example you gave at the end is a little different because this person was mature and didn’t act in response to the proposition. i think for a marriage to work, there must be trust between the two people. i just know that if i really loved my spouse, there is no way i would ever want to deceive him especially with something so grave as getting pregnant by another man. i would hope i would have respect and love for this person to tell him the truth and to not deceive him by letting him think the baby was his. it doesn’t have anything to do with bearing the cross alone - it is about honesty and respect for the other person. so that was my complaint against what the person said she heard Dr. Laura advise the caller - in a marriage, i don’t believe deception is good. there has to be trust.
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I agree there has to be trust. A confession of infidelity will almost certainly destroy the trust.

If, and I repeat IF it is certain that the infidelity will never be repeated, there is a chance that trust need not be destroyed.

(I am reminded of the novel The Scarlett Letter, in which Hester was implored publicly by her own pastor to reveal the name of her co-adulterer. She remained silent the entire time. The adulterer was, of course, the preacher himself.)
 
JimG said:
I agree there has to be trust. A confession of infidelity will almost certainly destroy the trust.

If, and I repeat IF it is certain that the infidelity will never be repeated, there is a chance that trust need not be destroyed.

(I am reminded of the novel The Scarlett Letter, in which Hester was implored publicly by her own pastor to reveal the name of her co-adulterer. She remained silent the entire time. The adulterer was, of course, the preacher himself.)
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yes, i remember the story of The Scarlett Letter.

i guess that is the question = will it just be one infidelity. if someone gets away with something once, they could be tempted to try it again.

and of course, infidelity alone is different than infidelity that leads to a pregnancy. then, the situation becomes even more complex.
 
I think that in-depth exploring of “what caused him/her to cheat?” is needed. Men and women don’t go around cheating, even having one-night stad(s) if their marriages are in working order. This is not an excuse to give a green light for adultery, and then blame it on past issues.

There is always a way to save and heal a relationship, but one **must **be able and willing to receive such help, and apply it where needed.

If the other person is only thinking of how that affects him/her, that is called selfish, and it probably has something to do with the primary reason for infidelity in the other part. We choose our partner for life; we see in the news how many people make the worse possible choice.

Remember, a marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Two people become one.
 
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