Dramatic move as Synod Fathers set out new pastoral care for gays, cohabiting couples and divorcees

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The people I know that say this either don’t agree with the moral teachings of the Church or say that the “rules” of the Catholic Church are too difficult to live out.
Maybe because they haven’t been invited and welcomed into a church. I think that may well be the reason for the Synod. Just my opinion there.

Would a gay couple be invited to attend mass at church? Should one be allowed to give a reading? Is that giving the wrong message? When we say they are welcome, what does that mean?
 
The people I know that say this either don’t agree with the moral teachings of the Church or say that the “rules” of the Catholic Church are too difficult to live out.
The problem is that we present them with rules they have to live out like the flip of a switch. We’re all different in our strengths and weaknesses, and for some asking them to start living, overnight, as brother and sister after a long and successful second marriage while they drag through an annulment process, is akin to asking somebody who just got onto a bike to go out and win the Tour de France tomorrow. It takes training.

The Eucharist is either nourishment for that training towards holiness, or it’s a prize for winning the race. Which is it going to be?
 
Many gay couples I know aren’t actively promoting anything, just trying to lead a quiet life as best then can, and are perhaps searching for God. None of the few that I know personally, I would qualify as “gay activists”.

What you see on the media, aka gay pride parades, I don’t think represents a majority. I suspect that more than a few are in fact horrified by all the shenanigans.

I do know some that parishes made to feel like lepers just for being who they were, never mind what they were doing. Regardless of whether active gays are admitted to the sacraments or not, this shunning requires a major attitude shift. The message in the CCC that gays need to be treated with love and compassion does not seem to always be getting out…
There is no scandal with gay people attending a Catholic Church. There is no scandal with a gay couple attending a Catholic Church. Where scandal happens is when an active gay person/couple does one of the following:
  1. shows public displays of affection
  2. receives the Eucharist unworthily when parishioners know he/she is unworthy due to conversations, etc. outside of Church.
Lepers are not automatic grave sinners. Sexually active homosexuals are automatic grave sinners.

If I was a (Catholic) teacher in a public high school and taught that masturbation is natural, sinless and good; then I would be equally scandalous.

When you set an sinful example; kids soak that up. I wouldn’t want my kids to hang around my brother if he were an abusive drunk or a convicted convict. Wouldn’t mean I don’t love my brother; but I don’t want him to influence my kids. But I would still want my brother to attend Church, but I would expect him to (1) not be drunk at Church and (2) not try to hurt any members of the parish. NOTE: my brother is neither.

Same concepts applies to gay couples, divorce without remarriage, and trial marriage couples: I want them at mass. But I want them to avoid influences kids and do their best to not scandalize children or others. Keep your sins between you, your confessor and God. Don’t publicize them, which is the major cause of scandal.
 
Many gay couples I know aren’t actively promoting anything, just trying to lead a quiet life as best then can, and are perhaps searching for God. None of the few that I know personally, I would qualify as “gay activists”.
I used to see these protests outside of Holy Name Cathedral week after week after week. And TV reporters abounded week after week after week. Churchgoers were understandably intimidated by them. I know I was. If you’re saying these are a tiny minority, that probably wouldn’t be of too much consolation.
 
UPDATE: The relatio has already occasioned some pushback. Following its presentation in the synod hall, 41 bishops spoke about the content, and several pressed for clarifications on specific points:
– Some asked whether, in the section on homosexuality, there shouldn’t be mention of the teaching that “some unions are disordered,” a reference to the phrase the church has used to describe homosexual relations. That information came from Cardinal Peter Erdo, the primary author of the relatio, who spoke to reporters at a Vatican press conference.
– Sources said other bishops questioned the analogy the relatio drew between the principle of finding “elements of sanctification and of truth outside” outside the visible structure of the church, expressed in the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, and the broader idea that positive elements can be found not only in sacramental marriage but also in irregular unions.
– At least one bishop asked what happened to the concept of sin. The word “sin” appears only rarely in the 5,000-word relatio.
At the press conference, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of the Philippines emphasized that this text was not the final version and said with a smile, “So the drama continues.”
A TRANSLATION ISSUE: Some people are taking issue with the English version of the relatio (a translation of the original Italian text that was put out by the Vatican press office but which is not “official”) and its treatment of the homosexuality issue. Specifically, this line: “Are our communities capable of providing that (a welcoming home for homosexuals), accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?”
The Italian text uses the verb valutare, which can mean a lot of things – to value, appreciate, consider, evaluate or judge. The English translators decided on “valuing.” I think “appreciating” would also fit. Given the context of the sentence (“welcoming” and “accepting”), I don’t think translating the word as “evaluating” or “judging” would make much sense. In any case, the sentence has apparently already caused some fireworks in the synod hall, so it will be interesting to see if it survives the revision process.
johnthavis.com/a-pastoral-earthquake-at-the-synod#.VDwF2GRdX77
 
The Eucharist is either nourishment for that training towards holiness, or it’s a prize for winning the race. Which is it going to be?
CCC 1395 The Eucharist is not ordered to the forgiveness of mortal sins—that is proper to the sacrament of Reconciliation. The Eucharist is properly the sacrament of those who are in full communion with the Church.
 
Anyone care to take a shot at explaining exactly what is meant by " gay Catholics’ orientation should be valued " ?
 
The Tablet is an extremely liberal publication and I expect nothing but agenda reporting from them. In addition, the following claim is disingenuous at best.
A major shift in the Church’s pastoral care for gay Catholics was put forward today at the Vatican’s Synod on the Family on Monday.
A document released at the halfway point of the gathering said that gay Catholics’ orientation should be valued and that they have “gifts and qualities” to offer parishes.
Hardly a major shift since it was already said in 1986 “On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons.” :rolleyes:
  1. The human being, made God’s image and likeness, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Everyone living on Earth has personal problems,** but challenges to growth and gifts as well.** Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of humans when they refuse to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insist that every person has a unique Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.
 
I have read the relevant section of Relatio post disceptationem and yes, it is nuclear. I had suspected that the synod might provoke some heated controversy between cardinals and bishops, leading to a bland non-committal statement at the end, essentially passing the buck on to next year. But not this. And we are only halfway through.

The most simplistic sophisms, the most obvious red herrings and the bluntest refusal to distinguish between what adds up to the promotion of sin and what does not. I really and truly can’t believe it. Obviously some posters will wonder what my problem is, but right now I’m just not in the mood for long explanations (for which there’s no need anyway). Just one point:

One individual, whom the parish knows to be homosexual, walks into a church alone and kneels at a pew, praying. Do we condemn him? Of course not. He is probably struggling with his conscience and trying to find his way to God.

Two homosexuals walk into church and sit, side by side, in the same pew. Do we welcome them and make them feel at home? No we do not. They are trying to impose acceptance of their lifestyle on Catholics. In an earlier and more Catholic era, the church bouncers - the Porters - would have shown them the door.

Does the document show recognition of this distinction? Not a word, anywhere.

The synodal declaration is not ex Cathedra, so I am entitled to toss it into the bin whilst remaining a Catholic. If anyone finds that disrespectful of the hierarchy, bonne chance!
 
The Tablet is an extremely liberal publication and I expect nothing but agenda reporting from them. In addition, the following claim is disingenuous at best.

Hardly a major shift since it was already said in 1986 “On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons.” :rolleyes:
👍
 
I used to see these protests outside of Holy Name Cathedral week after week after week. And TV reporters abounded week after week after week. Churchgoers were understandably intimidated by them. I know I was. If you’re saying these are a tiny minority, that probably wouldn’t be of too much consolation.
The situations being addressed by the synod are not related to this type of behaviour though. It addresses those people that are afflicted by homosexuality but are genuinely conflicted with regards their desires and Catholic teaching. These people come in many states of sinfulness and inner turmoil. It’s about forming the best possible relationship with them as a Church that allows for them to grow familiar with their best self… their soul.
 
Fr Dwight Longnecker:
Here is another paragraph from the Relatio that has got people hot and bothered and buzzing with fury.
Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?
What I don’t understand here is the focus on homosexuals as such. Why pick them out as deserving of some special mention?

Surely we believe that all persons have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community. Are we saying that homosexuals have some sort of special, unique gifts to offer simply because they are persons with same sex attraction? Where does that come from? What exactly are those unique gifts they have because they are homosexuals? This is sentimentalist, wishy washy, secularist nonsense.

This does not mean I am some sort of homophobe. I am not taking an anti-gay stance, I simply don’t understand what they’re talking about. What particular gifts to homosexuals offer the church that are different than the range of gifts that all people might bring to the church? Can anyone specify that? What are the “gifts and qualities” that homosexuals have that heterosexuals do not?

People with same sex attraction are already welcomed into the church equally with whatever gifts and qualities they have as individuals. Why does their sexuality have anything to do with it? Are we suggesting that homosexual people are more sensitive, caring, artistic or spiritual? If so, isn’t that patronizing–almost like saying, “Gerald is such a witty person! He’d make such a good interior designer…” If that is what we are saying are we suggesting that all homosexual people have these gifts and qualities simply because they have same sex attraction? Does that mean we think there cannot be homosexuals who are dull, selfish, stupid, brutish, violent, vulgar and boorish? Are we putting one group of people in some kind of special category because of their sexual orientation? If so how crazy is that?

Furthermore, in what way does the Catholic Church exclude people with same sex attraction? I have been a Catholic for nearly twenty years and I have never met a Catholic who excludes a person simply because they have same sex attraction. Sure, there is plenty of animosity towards gay activists and those who wish to destroy the Catholic Church and impose their life style on Catholics, but rejection of people simply because they experience same sex attraction? I’ve never seen it. I’ve seen exactly the opposite–kindness, toleration and mostly indifference.

This can only refer, therefore, to Catholic exclusion of men and women who are living an active homosexual lifestyle. Are these individuals to be granted “a fraternal space in our communities”? How so? How can we reject their lifestyle while accepting them? In what way exactly are we to grant them “fraternal space in our community”?

Again, my grumble here is not so much with what has been said, but the totally wishy washy, sentimental, ignorant and vague way in which they are being stated. The manner and style is far closer to the Anglican Church than the Catholic Church.

Let’s have more specifics. In what way do homosexual persons “wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home”? They, like everyone else, is already offered a “welcoming home”. The Catholic Church welcomes everyone equally–homosexual and heterosexual. All are welcomed. All are invited to repent of their sins and turn from their sinful lifestyles to follow the Lord in the path of chastity, sacrifice and obedience. This is how we welcome people into the Catholic Church–by welcoming all to take up their cross and follow Christ. For all people who are engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage we welcome them with the warmth of the Father welcoming home the prodigal. We welcome them with open arms and with loving pastoral concern as they seek to give up their sinful lifestyle and follow Christ. That is the welcome we offer all, and I fail to see why homosexuals are presently unwelcome.

Finally we are to “value their sexual orientation”? Again, what exactly does that mean? Am I to value what my own catechism calls an intrinsic disorder? How do I do that? Do I value their orientation by saying, “I think it’s wonderful that you desire to have anal intercourse with another man?” Just how do I do this without “compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony”?

Excuse me for using blunt language, but this IS what we’re talking about, and if it is not what we’re talking about, and we’re talking about simple human friendship and love between two men as between brothers, then what is all the fuss about? If we’re talking about ordinary same sex friendship or persons with same sex attraction living holy and celibate lives, then there’s no problem.

We’ve accepted this kind solution and this kind of fraternal love since the beginning.
Let’s be clear. This is an attempt by progressives to push a secular agenda on to the church under the guise of “pastoral concern.”

Where is the spirit of the martyrs and missionaries in all this?

How do we welcome people? What do we offer?

I’m reminded of the great missionary to the Mid West, Rose Phillipine Duchesne who, after arriving in the remote Missouri territory met with the bishop.

He asked her, “What do you desire?”

The little Frenchwoman said, “A cross”

The bishop replied, “Good, because that is all I have to offer you.”

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/10/homosexuals-have-gifts-to-offer.html

In the article excerpt I posted above, John Tavis writes about the translation of
‘valuing’
 
I have read the relevant section of Relatio post disceptationem and yes, it is nuclear. I had suspected that the synod might provoke some heated controversy between cardinals and bishops, leading to a bland non-committal statement at the end, essentially passing the buck on to next year. But not this. And we are only halfway through.

The most simplistic sophisms, the most obvious red herrings and the bluntest refusal to distinguish between what adds up to the promotion of sin and what does not. I really and truly can’t believe it. Obviously some posters will wonder what my problem is, but right now I’m just not in the mood for long explanations (for which there’s no need anyway). Just one point:

One individual, whom the parish knows to be homosexual, walks into a church alone and kneels at a pew, praying. Do we condemn him? Of course not. He is probably struggling with his conscience and trying to find his way to God.

Two homosexuals walk into church and sit, side by side, in the same pew. Do we welcome them and make them feel at home? No we do not. They are trying to impose acceptance of their lifestyle on Catholics. In an earlier and more Catholic era, the church bouncers - the Porters - would have shown them the door.

Does the document show recognition of this distinction? Not a word, anywhere.

The synodal declaration is not ex Cathedra, so I am entitled to toss it into the bin whilst remaining a Catholic. If anyone finds that disrespectful of the hierarchy, bonne chance!
Justin, thanks for your post. I will read it later on, I am a bit upset, sad by all of the news.
I will comment later on. God bless. Pax.
 
They probably said the same thing when they were automatically excommunicated before 1970. Did the lifting of the excommunications, a very pastoral move at the time, prevent divorces or just encourage more?
I see no one has answered your very good question.
If you’re actively promoting your scandalous position among the churchgoers, you will be actively shunned by them. What else do you expect?
I am stunned at the level of some of the duplicitous comments and articles posted by Catholics on these synod threads who are so eager to throw out the Deposit of Faith, and be taken in by the printed lies of the media. This kind of propaganda will only increase confusion and cause ire.
 
Maybe because they haven’t been invited and welcomed into a church. I think that may well be the reason for the Synod. Just my opinion there.

Would a gay couple be invited to attend mass at church? Should one be allowed to give a reading? Is that giving the wrong message? When we say they are welcome, what does that mean?
Invited and welcomed are really becoming treacherous words if they imply we must deny our faith and affirm sin.
related: If laws don’t lead people to Jesus, they are obsolete, pope says
This is going beyond the pale. Notice the fine choice of words. Does anyone at all believe the pope is implying the commandments are obsolete?
 
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