Dress and evangelization

[Monica4316]

There’s a topic I’m thinking about but I really wouldn’t want this thread to turn into a debate about modesty standards. It’s just not the purpose of this thread, there are other threads for that.

I am a convert. At some point I have chosen to dress more modestly which for me is skirts. All the skirts I wear are way past the knee, mid calf/ankle length or long skirts. I also cover up much more in the summer than the fashions I see on the streets.

I believe this has helped my spiritual life and I’m happy with how I dress.

At some time, I began discerning my vocation and have decided to seek some sort of consecrated life. I thought it would make sense to dress more simply, to help me concentrate on that. So I wear darker or more simpler colours.

I guess when you put that together with the modesty standards I follow (which are based on St Padre Pio’s guidelines) I do look different than people around me. But I don’t wear anything costumey. I shop in ordinary stores. In the fall it doesn’t stand out with boots, a jacket, etc. In the summer more so.

I do this because I have a past with vanity and it helps me to concentrate on my discernment to seek more simplicity. I think at the same time my clothing is not sloppy, and I have a few nicer things for occasions that are still not over the top.

Another issue is that I’ve had some guys approach me and I just want to send the message that “I’m not seeking marriage”. Its funny they still approached me I guess. But like I said it just helps me to remember who I am and not be caught up in my natural feelings or desire to be admired as all women have.

The issue is that a couple people told me that by doing all this I’m not relateable and am pushing people away from the Church. I had trouble with that because I think vices and lack of charity or humility probably push people away much more (and I have those too), and most people don’t care how i dress anyway. I have friends who are not Catholic. I have a job. I guess people assume its my style.

I dont want to be prideful and stand out. I also don’t want to push anyone away. But what do I do with the reasons I’ve outlined above. I had a lot of peace when I gave up certain pretty things (though i was very attached) and I even read in St Thomas Aquinas that women who don’t intend to marry shouldn’t seek adornments. I’ve been wondering what qualifies as that. (I don’t wear jewellery except Catholic blessed objects, I don’t wear makeup). At the same time I was told I’d push people away.

It’s hard to figure out. Its just a personal journey I’ve been on and what I felt lead to do. I could be wrong on many points. But does anyone have any thoughts on simplicity of dress and evangelism? Are people really less likely to like the Catholic Church when they meet me? But what aboit people in the history of the church who lived a consecrated life in the world and tried to dress more according to their vocation? I love St Gemma Galgani and she always wore a long black dress. She didn’t do that with pride. She endured some difficulties with people due to this and didn’t change. She didn’t push anyone away from the Church. Of course I’m not holy like St Gemma.

Sorry for such a long post… Thank you

 

[Bonnie]

I’ve dressed that way for years just because I want to - I’m more comfortable in long skirts & I’m way too old for sleeveless blouses.

Modesty can be very attractive. I remember a prostitution sting years ago: a police woman stood near a street corner wearing a long coat that covered her from neck to ankles. Men still stopped to ask her price. If they persisted, she said she’d meet them around the corner - which is where the other police were waiting. Since she wasn’t wearing revealing clothing it wasn’t considered entrapment.

 

[jcrichton]

There’s a topic I’m thinking about but I really wouldn’t want this thread to turn into a debate about modesty standards. It’s just not the purpose of this thread, there are other threads for that.

I am a convert. At some point I have chosen to dress more modestly which for me is skirts. All the skirts I wear are way past the knee, mid calf/ankle length or long skirts. I also cover up much more in the summer than the fashions I see on the streets.

I believe this has helped my spiritual life and I’m happy with how I dress.

At some time, I began discerning my vocation and have decided to seek some sort of consecrated life. I thought it would make sense to dress more simply, to help me concentrate on that. So I wear darker or more simpler colours.

I guess when you put that together with the modesty standards I follow (which are based on St Padre Pio’s guidelines) I do look different than people around me. But I don’t wear anything costumey. I shop in ordinary stores. In the fall it doesn’t stand out with boots, a jacket, etc. In the summer more so.

I do this because I have a past with vanity and it helps me to concentrate on my discernment to seek more simplicity. I think at the same time my clothing is not sloppy, and I have a few nicer things for occasions that are still not over the top.

Another issue is that I’ve had some guys approach me and I just want to send the message that “I’m not seeking marriage”. Its funny they still approached me I guess. But like I said it just helps me to remember who I am and not be caught up in my natural feelings or desire to be admired as all women have.

The issue is that a couple people told me that by doing all this I’m not relateable and am pushing people away from the Church. I had trouble with that because I think vices and lack of charity or humility probably push people away much more (and I have those too), and most people don’t care how i dress anyway. I have friends who are not Catholic. I have a job. I guess people assume its my style.

I dont want to be prideful and stand out. I also don’t want to push anyone away. But what do I do with the reasons I’ve outlined above. I had a lot of peace when I gave up certain pretty things (though i was very attached) and I even read in St Thomas Aquinas that women who don’t intend to marry shouldn’t seek adornments. I’ve been wondering what qualifies as that. (I don’t wear jewellery except Catholic blessed objects, I don’t wear makeup). At the same time I was told I’d push people away.

It’s hard to figure out. Its just a personal journey I’ve been on and what I felt lead to do. I could be wrong on many points. But does anyone have any thoughts on simplicity of dress and evangelism? Are people really less likely to like the Catholic Church when they meet me? But what aboit people in the history of the church who lived a consecrated life in the world and tried to dress more according to their vocation? I love St Gemma Galgani and she always wore a long black dress. She didn’t do that with pride. She endured some difficulties with people due to this and didn’t change. She didn’t push anyone away from the Church. Of course I’m not holy like St Gemma.

Sorry for such a long post… Thank you

Hi, Monica!

I must confess that when women dress modestly (not imitating street walkers) it is quite appealing… there are several reasons for this… the distinctiveness of the code; the personal strength that is displayed by not following the crowd; the fluidity of the long skirt or dress; the spiritual significance of the dress code; the reserved intimacy (not everyone has to partake of the intimacy of the husband’s and wife’s sensual experience)…

Have you noticed that “sex” is used to sell everything? The world has become sexualized–since when did Jesus Preach ‘dress provocatively so you can bring millions to the Faith?’

Those who are objecting to your personal dress code have bought into that hollowood’s “sex sells” mentality–it is not enough to be simple, respectful, naturally attractive… you must be sexual (check out their events… even the fossils must be talking up a storm and dressing up (or should I say down to the mere…) in order to “express” the sexual image (which is the new “strength”)–have you seen the “back to school” commercials? …even kids are trained to “be sexy” instead of in the three R’s.

From what I’ve gathered from your description of who and where you’re heading, I doubt that you are forcing your views on anyone. Yet, don’t forget that you will not be able to please all of the people… consider too that you might be scaring people who want to enjoy the liberties they keep taking (sensual dress codes; minimalist worship; rejection of Church Doctrine…) You are not a stumbling block to anyone’s search for the Truth: Jesus.

May the Holy Spirit continue to Bless you and Empower you to Follow Christ and be a model for both those who are in the Church and those who are outside of her.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Just wear what you want. If someone asks if they need to dress like you do in order to be Catholic, tell them truthfully that while they need to be modest, you’re taking it a step farther because this is what you feel comfortable wearing, and they are not required to dress like you do in order to join the Church.

 

[MSSheBear]

Some guys are attracted to women who dress modestly. Some are not. Perhaps you could check out some women’s modesty blogs from other religions? Also unless you are dressed very strangely your dress won’t have an effect on people and a lot of immigrants are offended by the standard dress around here. By the time you get to be my age people are hoping you dress modestly.

 

[DarkLight]

I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Although, if you get a lot of comments, and it is something that bothers you, might I ask what kind of outfits you’re wearing? I’ve noticed a lot of proponents of modesty stand out not because of their modesty per se, but because they tend to look more dated.

Broomstick and cotton or jersey maxi skirts are quite fashionable nowadays for women who want to blend in while being more modest. A woman wearing the sort of khaki skirt I grew up with would stand out pretty heavily, but a woman in one of those skirts would not.

Not that there’s anything wrong with dressing either way!

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you for the replies!

To clarify, I get most of my clothes from mainstream stores… Some of my skirts my mom made for me or I found in thrift stores and they are mid calf and flared (A-line). I live in a climate that gets really cold in the winter so several are wool. A very typical outfit for me is a skirt, a cardigan and a light scarf. For the summer sometimes I wear a tiered skirt, white or blue.

I guess I’ve been uncertain if I look “strange” or not because on one hand it seems like just ordinary clothes, on the other hand when everyone around you is dressed differently it can still stand out. It’s not only the modesty aspect but that I try to avoid bright colours, this is more because of the discernment reasons I described. I do wear white especially during the summer.

I’ve noticed its almost a matter of opinion so its hard to figure out. I don’t usually get comments on it, except funny enough from children who see me regularly and wonder perhaps why I’m always in a skirt but they don’t mean it in a critical way like adults would.

I guess what I’m saying is that I feel like it stands out because people around me are wearing jeans/leggings/short skirts/bright colours or patterns, so there’s a visual difference, and the fact that I’m always like that. But my clothes themselves are fairly ordinary especially shirts or sweaters.

My outfits are sort of similar to this picture except I usually wear cardigans instead of a jacket. thecatholicladyblog.blogspot.ca/2016/03/a-weekend-in-feminine-dress.html?m=1

 

[abinjoy]

The short answer to your question is, simple dress helps in evangelization -go for it.

That’s my perspective.

 

[macstar]

You may ask your friends if you’re too dressed up for an occasion. Ask them the next few times you hang out outside of Mass or other church activities. That may be what they mean.

I don’t know what age you are, but they may also think you are dressing older or more mom-ish. Not mature, per se, but where the style of clothes ages you, making you look older than what you really are.

Your friends are your friends. It does take some courage on their behalf to be honest with you. It sounds like your current choices don’t flatter you. They don’t want you to be off-putting to others if you want to pursue evangelization. They are trying to help you be successful in that mission. It’s one thing to be up on every trend-which does not sound like the aim for you or them. It’s another to want people to be receptive to you in your evangelical mission, which first impressions are given via attire. It’s a way to get your foot in the door, so to speak.

You can be simple and modest while being stylish. Ask sales clerks for their advice- it’s their job and what most like to do!

If you want to go into religious life, if you are stylishly modest you would still be appropriately dressed in a convent. If you’re spending money on clothes, why not make them flatter you?

 

[Monica4316]

Well the thing is, I’ve noticed that when I have been trying to make myself look more “fashionable”, that really didn’t have a good effect on my spiritual life in terms of my vocation. It was a temptation to think about how people perceive me, wanting to be liked, and ultimately if I’m attractive to guys. I’m young so this can be a temptation. This ultimately lead me further from my discernment and was a distraction…

I didn’t really mean my friends in my original post, because my friends at church dress basically in a similar way. Some are more ‘fashionable’, but it’s very normal in my parish to wear longer skirts. I attend a Latin Mass parish. I’m more wondering what people out in the world would think I guess, and if that would push them away from the Church or not as someone thought… at the same time, I don’t see how I could change without sacrificing my modesty standards (which I just don’t believe in doing), or creating a distraction for my vocation… it’s kind of confusing

Another issue is that I can’t seem to figure out what the truth is in terms of my clothing, and if it looks strange or not. To me, it doesn’t look weird, my clothing is neat and not sloppy or too casual. It seems to be a matter of opinion so how do I know what is the truth?

 

[DarkLight]

Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Even all Catholic perspectives aside, I’ve noticed us ladies simply can’t catch a break. No matter what you wear someone’s going to have a problem with it.

 

[Bonnie]

Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Even all Catholic perspectives aside, I’ve noticed us ladies simply can’t catch a break. No matter what you wear someone’s going to have a problem with it.

AMEN to that!

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you for the replies!

To clarify, I get most of my clothes from mainstream stores… Some of my skirts my mom made for me or I found in thrift stores and they are mid calf and flared (A-line). I live in a climate that gets really cold in the winter so several are wool. A very typical outfit for me is a skirt, a cardigan and a light scarf. For the summer sometimes I wear a tiered skirt, white or blue.

I guess I’ve been uncertain if I look “strange” or not because on one hand it seems like just ordinary clothes, on the other hand when everyone around you is dressed differently it can still stand out. It’s not only the modesty aspect but that I try to avoid bright colours, this is more because of the discernment reasons I described. I do wear white especially during the summer.

I’ve noticed its almost a matter of opinion so its hard to figure out. I don’t usually get comments on it, except funny enough from children who see me regularly and wonder perhaps why I’m always in a skirt but they don’t mean it in a critical way like adults would.

I guess what I’m saying is that I feel like it stands out because people around me are wearing jeans/leggings/short skirts/bright colours or patterns, so there’s a visual difference, and the fact that I’m always like that. But my clothes themselves are fairly ordinary especially shirts or sweaters.

My outfits are sort of similar to this picture except I usually wear cardigans instead of a jacket. thecatholicladyblog.blogspot.ca/2016/03/a-weekend-in-feminine-dress.html?m=1

Hi, Monica!

…when I was in hs there was a guy in gym who made it his business to get into mine… one day he asked why I wore a particular pair of pants; I told him because I did–he attempted to ridicule me… I wore the same pair of pants for the whole week!

…also while in hs, one of my “best” friends drank generously… when we traveled together he wanted me to drink with him… he even tried the “embarrassment” card… whenever we went to a home where they offered us a beer, he quickly offered ‘bring him some milk, he’s just a baby!’ I did not allow him to control me, I gladly drank milk, juice or water–never the beer!

There are two reasons why you wear the styles you do; both of them are honorable and venerable; if at the end you determine that a religious Vocation was not your Call, there’s no serious Catholic or other Christian who would not cherish your modesty. So, once you get past the worrying about what “they think/opinion,” its a win-win!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You may ask your friends if you’re too dressed up for an occasion. Ask them the next few times you hang out outside of Mass or other church activities. That may be what they mean.

I don’t know what age you are, but they may also think you are dressing older or more mom-ish. Not mature, per se, but where the style of clothes ages you, making you look older than what you really are.

Your friends are your friends. It does take some courage on their behalf to be honest with you. It sounds like your current choices don’t flatter you. They don’t want you to be off-putting to others if you want to pursue evangelization. They are trying to help you be successful in that mission. It’s one thing to be up on every trend-which does not sound like the aim for you or them. It’s another to want people to be receptive to you in your evangelical mission, which first impressions are given via attire. It’s a way to get your foot in the door, so to speak.

You can be simple and modest while being stylish. Ask sales clerks for their advice- it’s their job and what most like to do!

If you want to go into religious life, if you are stylishly modest you would still be appropriately dressed in a convent. If you’re spending money on clothes, why not make them flatter you?

Hi, Mac!

…did you check the link that Monica offered? …the only thing wrong with the attire is that it’s not showing off “skin;” when you check the styles in NYC you find that business women dress just as conservative… and from what I noted, that multi layer thing is still “hot.”

…still, we must consider what it is that the OP is attempting to achieve… she’s not into fashion for fashion’s sake.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Well the thing is, I’ve noticed that when I have been trying to make myself look more “fashionable”, that really didn’t have a good effect on my spiritual life in terms of my vocation. It was a temptation to think about how people perceive me, wanting to be liked, and ultimately if I’m attractive to guys. I’m young so this can be a temptation. This ultimately lead me further from my discernment and was a distraction…

I didn’t really mean my friends in my original post, because my friends at church dress basically in a similar way. Some are more ‘fashionable’, but it’s very normal in my parish to wear longer skirts. I attend a Latin Mass parish. I’m more wondering what people out in the world would think I guess, and if that would push them away from the Church or not as someone thought… at the same time, I don’t see how I could change without sacrificing my modesty standards (which I just don’t believe in doing), or creating a distraction for my vocation… it’s kind of confusing

Another issue is that I can’t seem to figure out what the truth is in terms of my clothing, and if it looks strange or not. To me, it doesn’t look weird, my clothing is neat and not sloppy or too casual. It seems to be a matter of opinion so how do I know what is the truth?

Hi, Monica!

…I fully understand what you mean… I’ve caught some of the ladies from various parishes stealing a glance to see if I’m paying attention (you know the hair thing); I wonder if they realize that they should be more concerned with what we are doing in the House of God than how we may be seen/perceived… so yes, we can suffer from style-distraction, if we are not careful enough.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[DarkLight]

Hi, Mac!

…did you check the link that Monica offered? …the only thing wrong with the attire is that it’s not showing off “skin;” when you check the styles in NYC you find that business women dress just as conservative… and from what I noted, that multi layer thing is still “hot.”

…still, we must consider what it is that the OP is attempting to achieve… she’s not into fashion for fashion’s sake.

Maran atha!

Angel

At least where I am that outfit would probably be referred to as “dowdy”, although it probably depends on the age of the woman. Business women tend to wear clothing that’s a little more tailored.

 

[Monica4316]

Maybe it could help to clarify that I’m in my early 30s and I work in a professional but casual environment. If I worked in a downtown bank, how I dress would probably be seen as way too casual. Usually I’m at the same (or more) level of “being dressed up” because people around me might be wearing a casual sweater, leggings, etc, and a skirt tends to look dressier. But at the same time, it’s simple. I might potentially look ‘dowdy’. Not sure what I could do about that because I don’t feel comfortable changing the skirt length, and making it more tailored or dressy might be a distraction, so it might just be something to offer up… I don’t know! I’m still trying to figure it all out, but I might have to come to terms that my dress is just a little different.

I agree with St Francis de Sales to not dress too fancy or too simple, according to one’s state in life, and so that both the “wise” and the “young” (I think these are his words) would understand it. But in his time, it was much much easier to be modest. Today, if someone is modest I feel like they’d already stand out on a hot summer day.

St Francis de Sales does say… “St.Louis says in one word: ³We must dress according to our state in such a way that the wise and good may not say: you do too much, nor the young may say: you do too little.” But in case the young are not satisfied with propriety, they ought to abide by the advice of the wise.

Maybe the last part is an example for us in our day as we try to just be basically modest?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Nothing wrong with that outfit Monica linked. It looks very retro/vintage/70s. I wear similar stuff, not because I am trying to be modest, but because I like the look and it’s comfortable. It’s probably not in fashion now but who cares, I’ve never been a big follower of current fashions and my jobs don’t require me to be. Also, for every reasonably recent era of clothing, there are women still following it because they like it. I’ve seen many young women who dress like it’s still the 20s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, or 80s.

 

[DarkLight]

Maybe it could help to clarify that I’m in my early 30s and I work in a professional but casual environment. If I worked in a downtown bank, how I dress would probably be seen as way too casual. Usually I’m at the same (or more) level of “being dressed up” because people around me might be wearing a casual sweater, leggings, etc, and a skirt tends to look dressier. But at the same time, it’s simple. I might potentially look ‘dowdy’. Not sure what I could do about that because I don’t feel comfortable changing the skirt length, and making it more tailored or dressy might be a distraction, so it might just be something to offer up… I don’t know! I’m still trying to figure it all out, but I might have to come to terms that my dress is just a little different.

I agree with St Francis de Sales to not dress too fancy or too simple, according to one’s state in life, and so that both the “wise” and the “young” (I think these are his words) would understand it. But in his time, it was much much easier to be modest. Today, if someone is modest I feel like they’d already stand out on a hot summer day.

St Francis de Sales does say… “St.Louis says in one word: ³We must dress according to our state in such a way that the wise and good may not say: you do too much, nor the young may say: you do too little.” But in case the young are not satisfied with propriety, they ought to abide by the advice of the wise.

Maybe the last part is an example for us in our day as we try to just be basically modest?

Yeah I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

It’s not “fashionable.” But it doesn’t sound like you’re in an industry where you need to be particularly fashionable, and really, who cares?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

At least where I am that outfit would probably be referred to as “dowdy”, although it probably depends on the age of the woman. Business women tend to wear clothing that’s a little more tailored.

Many workplaces nowadays are “business casual”, and the only women who wear tailored clothes are those whose job requires them to be meeting customers or board members, etc. Even those women will dress down when they have a day without outside contacts planned. That outfit is actually about average dressy for my workplace. Many women just wear some casual pants and a tunic or casual blouse.