Dress and evangelization

[Bonnie]

But at the same time, it’s simple. I might potentially look ‘dowdy’.

If you dress like the picture you linked to, I wouldn’t call it dowdy. I think that’s a very “put together” look. But then, I’m not exactly up on what’s fashionable, tho there are some things I would never, ever wear because they would make me think of my grandmother.

I suppose if your clothes don’t remind you of an elderly relative, you’re probably doing just fine.

 

[macstar]

Hi, Mac!

…did you check the link that Monica offered? …the only thing wrong with the attire is that it’s not showing off “skin;” when you check the styles in NYC you find that business women dress just as conservative… and from what I noted, that multi layer thing is still “hot.”

…still, we must consider what it is that the OP is attempting to achieve… she’s not into fashion for fashion’s sake.

Maran atha!

Angel

I agree with the previous poster that the attire on the link- particularly for the summer- looks dowdy. Conservative peers who have seen the OP in person have commented her attire isn’t flattering. She can be covered from head to toe and still be modest and tasteful. Tailoring has a nice effect; even religious habits are tailored.

The more confusing/troublesome part of this thread is that the OP asks for opinions yet tries to justify her attire to people who suggest or explain a different angle. In light of her discernment of the religious life and the effect the stylish modest clothes have on her spiritual life, she continues to seek approval for her behavior and attire. Maybe it’s a bit of immaturity and an opportunity for growth. Why is she seeking approval if it’s not important to her? Or maybe it is more important to her than she realizes- and that’s ok.

In the meantime, until her discernment is decided, maybe she doesn’t need to bother purchasing new clothes. Take away the struggle altogether. If she decides not to enter religious life, then she can go shopping.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I thought the reason she was asking was that she was concerned her attire would have a negative effect on her evangelization efforts. I could be wrong of course.

I’ve seen some debate on other forums as to whether women involved in evangelization, including church staff and Protestants as well as Catholics, should try to dress more attractively or fashionably as some have complained they look dowdy or that there is a “churchy” look that turns off others from wanting to get involved, so I thought this was more of the same.

 

[Bonnie]

I thought the reason she was asking was that she was concerned her attire would have a negative effect on her evangelization efforts. I could be wrong of course.

I’ve seen some debate on other forums as to whether women involved in evangelization, including church staff and Protestants as well as Catholics, should try to dress more attractively or fashionably as some have complained they look dowdy or that there is a “churchy” look that turns off others from wanting to get involved, so I thought this was more of the same.

That’s what I thought, too. I’m acquainted (barely) with a youngish Catholic man. For a time he wore a huge cross - so big it was probably meant as a wall cross - around his neck. It was off-putting even to Catholics - I can imagine the effect on non-Catholics. It made me rethink something I was doing, wondering what effect it had on non-Catholics. So - as the man eventually did, I made a change.

It isn’t vanity to think about the impact we are having on others.

 

[DarkLight]

It’s silly, but clothes tend to be associated with age as well. It sounds like I’m around OP’s age, and I’d generally associate an outfit like that more with women of the previous generation. Things are more likely to look “off” to people if it’s a much older style on a younger person, or vice versa.

Of course, fashion is all kind of arbitrary, so you do what you find best for your life, so long as morality itself is satisfied. If you feel that being more fashionable improves your ability to evangelize and your spiritual life, go for it. If not, don’t.

 

[AdamP88]

It might be that you seem aloof or something and that’s why people think you might put people off.

In terms of guys…some guys will be attracted to you more because you dress conservatively and are serious about the faith…I wouldn’t worry about it. Really there’s no non-verbal way of saying to guys “I’m not seeking marriage.” You could always wear a ring on your ring finger but when I was a single guy I don’t remember ever looking at the ring finger of any of the girls I was interested in. If a guy is going to ask you out…he will.

 

[jcrichton]

At least where I am that outfit would probably be referred to as “dowdy”, although it probably depends on the age of the woman. Business women tend to wear clothing that’s a little more tailored.

Hi!

I concur with you that “fashion” has to do with perspective; however, it goes to what is being sought; a tailored/sharp look commands attention–Monica is seeking to go under the radar; her doubts sprang from the weight placed on her that by not being showy enough she will put off people from joining the Faith.

…and while she offered the depiction of one particular ensemble, Monica did not state that that’s the only thing she wears. I think it goes to the image she wants to project and the values she wants to maintain… some confuse “well-dressed” with a few pieces of cloth/material costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars… others reject the simplest of attires because they do not live up to the norm that the fashion industry (which is out to convert, conquer, and sell) continues to propose as the “it.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Maybe it could help to clarify that I’m in my early 30s and I work in a professional but casual environment. If I worked in a downtown bank, how I dress would probably be seen as way too casual. Usually I’m at the same (or more) level of “being dressed up” because people around me might be wearing a casual sweater, leggings, etc, and a skirt tends to look dressier. But at the same time, it’s simple. I might potentially look ‘dowdy’. Not sure what I could do about that because I don’t feel comfortable changing the skirt length, and making it more tailored or dressy might be a distraction, so it might just be something to offer up… I don’t know! I’m still trying to figure it all out, but I might have to come to terms that my dress is just a little different.

I agree with St Francis de Sales to not dress too fancy or too simple, according to one’s state in life, and so that both the “wise” and the “young” (I think these are his words) would understand it. But in his time, it was much much easier to be modest. Today, if someone is modest I feel like they’d already stand out on a hot summer day.

St Francis de Sales does say… “St.Louis says in one word: ³We must dress according to our state in such a way that the wise and good may not say: you do too much, nor the young may say: you do too little.” But in case the young are not satisfied with propriety, they ought to abide by the advice of the wise.

Maybe the last part is an example for us in our day as we try to just be basically modest?

Hi, Monica!

…perhaps the translation of these Sts. is that we should not live for fashion–remember in those days the poor lived vicariously through their patrons as they could ill afford food, let alone the “fashions.”

While some of this may have changed; the root promise remains: dress within your mean and do not try to set boundaries beyond modesty; clearly, for the Christian, modesty must mean something way different than from the secular who are on the path to a one string bikini as the full measure of the “hot” wardrobe.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[DarkLight]

Hi!

I concur with you that “fashion” has to do with perspective; however, it goes to what is being sought; a tailored/sharp look commands attention–Monica is seeking to go under the radar; her doubts sprang from the weight placed on her that by not being showy enough she will put off people from joining the Faith.

I wouldn’t call it “showy” exactly. A lot of it’s more in cuts or styling. It’s basically just about wearing what’s commonly worn for your age and location.

Compare:
i.pinimg.com/736x/95/52/0b/95520b551b6da4b0b1a2e97fb3024fda–broomstick-skirt-casual-skirts.jpg

polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=10881074

I wouldn’t say one of those is significantly more showy than the other, but the first one’s going to stand out less than the second, simply because it’s a more common style for causal wear.

 

[jcrichton]

I agree with the previous poster that the attire on the link- particularly for the summer- looks dowdy. Conservative peers who have seen the OP in person have commented her attire isn’t flattering. She can be covered from head to toe and still be modest and tasteful. Tailoring has a nice effect; even religious habits are tailored.

The more confusing/troublesome part of this thread is that the OP asks for opinions yet tries to justify her attire to people who suggest or explain a different angle. In light of her discernment of the religious life and the effect the stylish modest clothes have on her spiritual life, she continues to seek approval for her behavior and attire. Maybe it’s a bit of immaturity and an opportunity for growth. Why is she seeking approval if it’s not important to her? Or maybe it is more important to her than she realizes- and that’s ok.

In the meantime, until her discernment is decided, maybe she doesn’t need to bother purchasing new clothes. Take away the struggle altogether. If she decides not to enter religious life, then she can go shopping.

Hi, Mac!

…I think it’s that “put off” others from the Faith… someone/s are arm twisting–could be that she was sure of what she wanted to wear until the arm twisting ensued… putting the weight of the Church’s future on her choice of style.

I suffered some arm twisting myself… when mom died I decided to mourn her for three years (code: black dress only); some people had a problem with this; they attempted several ruses–to the point of stating that I would be scaring people (not happy and joyful because I wore black); one even attempted to school me on the “correct” length of time for mourning… ‘cause that’s what the Bible says.’ I reminded them that people could dress up to hide their insecurities, failures, sadness… that projecting happy thoughts did not make a person happy… then I asked something to the effect, ‘when has anyone complained about my sadness or intense mourning… I dress in black as respect to my mom who mourn for her loved ones for years… not because she was sad or mad at God but because she wanted to offer that as a sign of respect and sacrifice for her loved ones… when you hear that Angel is always sad or there’s no joy in him, then be worried for me.’

…style does count; but what counts more is how we live up to our own spirituality.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Bonnie]

i.pinimg.com/736x/95/52/0b/95520b551b6da4b0b1a2e97fb3024fda–broomstick-skirt-casual-skirts.jpg

I have one like that! I like that style - wish I could find another.

 

[jcrichton]

It’s silly, but clothes tend to be associated with age as well. It sounds like I’m around OP’s age, and I’d generally associate an outfit like that more with women of the previous generation. Things are more likely to look “off” to people if it’s a much older style on a younger person, or vice versa.

Of course, fashion is all kind of arbitrary, so you do what you find best for your life, so long as morality itself is satisfied. If you feel that being more fashionable improves your ability to evangelize and your spiritual life, go for it. If not, don’t.

Hi!

…it’s funny you mentioned the term arbitrary… it is quite so… there are things that bring out the best in people… yet, not everyone is meant to wear it… there are shades/pastels/colors that bring out the beauty/manliness in some… while the wrong ones would totally sink the boat.

…then there’s that *je ne sais quoi *that we can project… it’s like a special glue that binds everything together… you can see this happening as a person enters into a room and gets the attention of people or when involved in a group thing and that one person or two just take charge (no I’m not talking about the overbearing governors)–on this hollowood is right… we have a natural ability to bring others to bear (lead them) just by being secure in who we are… I think that this rather, than the “perfect” fashion, will command more attention. We must be secure in who we are (as Children of God), the rest comes easy.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I wouldn’t call it “showy” exactly. A lot of it’s more in cuts or styling. It’s basically just about wearing what’s commonly worn for your age and location.

Compare:
i.pinimg.com/736x/95/52/0b/95520b551b6da4b0b1a2e97fb3024fda–broomstick-skirt-casual-skirts.jpg

polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=10881074

I wouldn’t say one of those is significantly more showy than the other, but the first one’s going to stand out less than the second, simply because it’s a more common style for causal wear.

Hi!

I concur; both of these skirts should offer Monica the choice she is making… I’m a guy, so I do not know the mind of women… yet, I’ve seen the brown skirt style being used (I would say well worn) by some of the most beautiful girls (in their 20s thru 40s) in more general venues, while the tan skirt in a more reserved environment (office/school); I find that both could be worn… yet, the individual lady could or could not be complemented by either–also, it depends on the rest of her attire–mix-matching does not always work!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I have one like that! I like that style - wish I could find another.

Hi, Bonnie!

…have you checked out boutiques when you go around town or out of town if your neck of the woods don’t have them?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Bonnie]

Hi, Bonnie!

…have you checked out boutiques when you go around town or out of town if your neck of the woods don’t have them?

Maran atha!

Angel

Oh yes! I’m in the middle of nowhere & shop only sporadically, so haven’t found it yet. But the last time I shopped I found a lovely gored skirt - haven’t seen that style in just about forever!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wouldn’t call it “showy” exactly. A lot of it’s more in cuts or styling. It’s basically just about wearing what’s commonly worn for your age and location.

Compare:
i.pinimg.com/736x/95/52/0b/95520b551b6da4b0b1a2e97fb3024fda–broomstick-skirt-casual-skirts.jpg

polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=10881074

I wouldn’t say one of those is significantly more showy than the other, but the first one’s going to stand out less than the second, simply because it’s a more common style for causal wear.

I honestly don’t see any difference in those. The broomstick is lighter and more romantic looking is all. You must have a great interest in fashion to be looking so closely. I also think many of us don’t look as hard at the clothes as we get older. It becomes more about being comfortable in your clothes and comfortable with yourself and no longer caring so much what the outside world thinks, as long as you’re decently covered.

 

[DarkLight]

I honestly don’t see any difference in those. The broomstick is lighter and more romantic looking is all. You must have a great interest in fashion to be looking so closely. I also think many of us don’t look as hard at the clothes as we get older. It becomes more about being comfortable in your clothes and comfortable with yourself and no longer caring so much what the outside world thinks, as long as you’re decently covered.

I think fashion is one of those things that people tend to notice without everyone necessarily being able to articulate what they notice. People could tell even as kids that we didn’t quite fit in the church I grew up in, but I doubt any of them could have articulated why.

As far as caring, that’s up to the individual person. If OP doesn’t want to worry about it, I’d say she is under no obligation to. If she’s concerned that the way she dresses puts people off, she can make some changes that would be more stylistically common.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m sorry if I wasn’t very clear!

Maybe the following would be a better explanation

I made this thread because I’m wondering if it’s true that the way I dress could push people away from the Church and if I should be concerned

The reason I seemed to excuse myself after, is because if I do push people away, I don’t know what a possible solution could be. For example, a lot of the styles marketed for my generation tend to not match what I believe about modesty. That might leave me with more retro style clothes… i guess if I really try i could still make it look more ‘my age’ but I don’t know what this would mean. If I actually wouldn’t push anyone away from the Church, I’d rather not bother but if it does, then I guess i should? But I wouldn’t want to compromise the decisions I’ve made at the same time or think too much about clothes to the point of distraction… I have a tendency to over think and if I start really thinking about clothes it might make me think about them wayy too much…

Regarding the two skirts, I actually have skirts more in the style of the first skirt… I don’t think I have any skirts resembling the second one. They’re all flared in some way because I just like those more

To clarify another point, the comments I was thinking of in my first post were not about clothes being unflattering, but that if we dress differently from our culture we would alienate people from the faith. I disagreed but because I could always be wrong i thought I’d ask what other Catholics think. I had two comments like that one not directly targeted to me, and one about me.

Regarding whether my clothes are flattering, someone thought they are and someone thought they aren’t. So I don’t know. I’m more asking if I’d alienate people

Thanks!

 

[DarkLight]

Fair enough!

I think there’s a risk sometimes because of the perception that “church ladies” aren’t allowed to look nice. It can feed into false negative perceptions of how the Church regards women.

That said…we’re in a society that loves to judge people. Maybe all societies are like that. I think there’s a tendency when someone’s saying something we don’t particularly like, to pick at what they do and find reasons not to like them. Some people are going to be turned off by something you do no matter what.

 

[Monica4316]

I feel like as women there are just so many expectations for how we are supposed to be… it’s like we try to go through life being constantly evaluated by everyone. Sometimes I feel that way and it’s kind of draining. For example I might like my outfit and think it’s nice… But what I consider nice might look dated or not nice to someone else who has a different taste… and because taste in styles tends to be influenced by what’s in style and what’s the norm, many people might not like it. I’m obviously affected by fashions too but also my church community where a bit of a different style predominates. It’s like we always have to figure out how people perceive us! It can be a burden.

It’s the evangelization part of it that I began thinking about, but I’m still trying to figure that out. I believe in looking neat and presentable… But beyond that… i was thinking maybe we should just seek sanctity and virtue? I understand making a good impression, and looking strange can maybe turn people away, at the same time I can think of various saints who dressed very poorly but drew so many to Christ - because others saw God in them… that makes me wonder if I’m too concerned about this topic, maybe I should just keep trying to grow closer to God and then the rest would come?

I’m asking because I’m not sure which way is right what I just wrote seems logical to me but I don’t know if I’m not understanding something