Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?

[pig]

Many states approve of medical marijuana. I’ve yet to hear of tobacco or alcohol described as medical usage… well maybe the Apostle Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine for his heath.

The question is do you need it, non-medicinal stuff?

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Does the Catholic Church prohibit the usage of legalized pot such as medical marijuana usage? I don’t think Catholics are against other pharmaceutical drugs when subscribed by doctors, correct?

“The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct cooperation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law” (CCC 2291)

Also:

The CCC reflects the teaching of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry. Its 2001 pastoral handbook “Church, Drugs, and Drug Addiction” affirms that the use of cannabis is “incompatible with Christian morality” because it is an intoxicant that dims reason and is potentially damaging to the integrity of one’s body and soul.

 

[Christian_Unity]

I live in the Netherlands where smoking marijuana is tolerated, even in public in most cities, and I know many people who smoke it while driving. But I also know that some people react very badly to it. Coldness, heart tremors, dizziness. Also, marijuana is a mood enhancer, if you are feeling low you will feel even worse. It really depends on the person and the marijuana strain (THC content).

I don’t personally smoke pot because I never enjoyed the feeling when I was a teenager. I’m just interested in how Catholics and Christians react to cultural norms and changes in regards to legalism. How do we discern controversy issues as Christians?

 

[Christian_Unity]

The question is do you need it, non-medicinal stuff?

It depends of the Christian. Don’t you think Paul’s argument for allowing drinking is the same for legalized pot?

 

[Richard320]

I don’t do either, any more. I’ve probably drank a lifetime supply worth of alcohol already, even though I quit in 1989. I never was into pot, because hippies smoke pot.

Alcohol can be destructive, yet for the overwhelming majority of people it has real use as a social lubricant.Which is probably why it gets served at “mixers” instead of cocoa. People loosen up and get sociable after a drink or two. It also helps white people dance. I’ve never seen that with pot smokers. They get stupid, lethargic, and giggly and would most likely clear out the appetizers like a plague of locusts if it was served at a social gathering.

As a tobacco smoker, I routinely get lectured about the evils of smoke and secondhand smoke. Smokers are the target of the last acceptable prejudice. So why is it that tobacco smoke is evil, yet marijuana smoke is suddenly harmless? You can’t smoke in bars or restaurants in California. Heck, in some places you can’t smoke on the sidewalk or in a park, or on the beach! Plenty of other states are following suit. Where would these people smoke their weed?

 

[pig]

It depends of the Christian. Don’t you think Paul’s argument for allowing drinking is the same for legalized pot?

Paul suggested wine for somebodies stomach problem; doctors give painkillers now based on opiates etc. What is wrong with medicine? I don’t know if pot cures or helps with pain relief. But the question still is if you are not using it for medicinal reasons, do you need it?

 

[Christian_Unity]

Also:

The CCC reflects the teaching of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry. Its 2001 pastoral handbook “Church, Drugs, and Drug Addiction” affirms that the use of cannabis is “incompatible with Christian morality” because it is an intoxicant that dims reason and is potentially damaging to the integrity of one’s body and soul.

The year 2001 is a long time ago, and the laws of the land have changed, and medical views have changed too. Will Rome change again to conform to new cultural norms and medical findings on the issue of pot? Should Catholics obey the ruling above, or should they obey the general teaching of legalism of the Apostle Paul found in Scripture? This issue is very similar to artificial birth control which is prohibted for Catholics, yet 98% of American Catholics have used artificial birth control. The Catholic Church once considered that the world was flat and called those who said the world was round a heretic. So, there may be a pattern here but I’m not Catholic, required to adhere to official Catholic teaching on such issues. I would make a bibilcal case that legalized pot usage done in good conscience before God is an acceptable Christian practice for those who can smoke in faith.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Paul suggested wine for somebodies stomach problem; doctors give painkillers now based on opiates etc. What is wrong with medicine? I don’t know if pot cures or helps with pain relief. But the question still is if you are not using it for medicinal reasons, do you need it?

The same question can be said for drinking, yet Catholics drink all the time. So, what’s the beef with pot and not drinking? Why do people drink?

 

[pig]

The same question can be said for drinking, yet Catholics drink all the time. So, what’s the beef with pot and not drinking? Why do people drink?

My point was that we already have drink, do we need pot too? Do you need pot? Isn’t one decent intoxicant enough?

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I did a lot of both in my youth and have to affirm what Nan said. After a while, it was no longer possible to tell if I were high on marijuana, but only that I was not high. It took a long time to get it out of my system. One of the problems of alcohol usage my most American Indian tribes was that they had no cultural norms to place limits on the behavior, hence a high incidence of alcoholism among them. On the other hand, Judaism has many norms about the use of alcohol that limit its use as an intoxicant. Jews have a low incidence of alcoholism. Certainly the America I grew up in was much closer to the American Indians when it came to using marijuana. I see fewer restraints on the use of alcohol. I think of a beer commercial in which drinkers were in a hospital giving beer to everyone there, including surgeons in an operating theater. I am not aware of any development of norms that limit the intoxication with marijuana.

The issue of medical usage is a separate matter. We routinely allow the use of intoxicants to bring about some desired effect. Think of all the medicines that warn against driving until you know how they affect you. I recently was put on diltiazem for an irregular heart beat. It works quite well, but left me in a zombie-like state. The dosage was changed, so that I can now function again. If I were to drive in that zombie-like state and be involved in an accident, I would have been charged with driving while impaired, just as if I were drinking, or for that matter, using marijuana.

In sum, if we take up Jesus’ cross, then everything we do is judged as either glorifying or tearing down His name. Thus the question then becomes, can you build up the body of Christ while stoned? For myself, the answer was no. I do not see anything in American culture that would make me think it would be otherwise, either.

 

[Dolezal]

I don’t personally smoke pot because I never enjoyed the feeling when I was a teenager. I’m just interested in how Catholics and Christians react to cultural norms and changes in regards to legalism. How do we discern controversy issues as Christians?

CCC 2291 addresses hard drugs. The Church has no position on smoking marijuana, it depends on the effects. But why risk sin? It is better in my opinion to avoid marijuana and enjoy a beer.

 

[jeannetherese]

It might be helpful to recall that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit as we think of these concerns. How might the way that we treat our bodies best reflect this reality?

 

[Christian_Unity]

CCC 2291 addresses hard drugs. The Church has no position on smoking marijuana, it depends on the effects. But why risk sin? It is better in my opinion to avoid marijuana and enjoy a beer.

Sure, we all have opinions on Christian liberties and conscience. Again, I do enjoy beer and wine, but don’t care much for pot. In Romans 13, we are called to obey the laws of the land… so when pot was illegal, this issue cannot really be discussed and debated… because Christians cannot break the law (few exceptions). Now that pot is legal in many states in various ways, it makes a great Forum discussion. Again, the bigger picture is the practice of legalism and Christian conscience. I do believe the argument that Paul makes for alcohol and eating meat is the same argument that can be made for legal pot smoking. Hey, if a brother or sister can smoke legalized pot with a clear conscience before God and does not stumble another, then may that person smoke pot to the glory of God. It is the biblical position. If you think otherwise, I would like to debate this within the Scriptures.

 

[Christian_Unity]

It might be helpful to recall that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit as we think of these concerns. How might the way that we treat our bodies best reflect this reality?

There are lots of things that are not good for the body such as alcohol, French fries, processed foods, too much red meat, etc which Scripture allows. So, do you believe Catholics should abstain from drinking alcohol or eating fast food too? Who determies what is good for the body and what would be allowable to eat or drink according to the Apostle Paul?

 

[Swiss_Guy]

The year 2001 is a long time ago, and the laws of the land have changed, and medical views have changed too. Will Rome change again to conform to new cultural norms and medical findings on the issue of pot? Should Catholics obey the ruling above, or should they obey the general teaching of legalism of the Apostle Paul found in Scripture? This issue is very similar to artificial birth control which is prohibted for Catholics, yet 98% of American Catholics have used artificial birth control. The Catholic Church once considered that the world was flat and called those who said the world was round a heretic. So, there may be a pattern here but I’m not Catholic, required to adhere to official Catholic teaching on such issues. I would make a bibilcal case that legalized pot usage done in good conscience before God is an acceptable Christian practice for those who can smoke in faith.

Pitting the Church against St. Paul? False dichotomy there. As far as I know St. Paul never addressed cannabis.

The Church is not a democracy, so just because a majority of Catholics use ABC doesn’t mean it’s right, and the Church will never say it is. BTW I think the actual figure is more around 80%, since the 98% was overblown.

The Church never had a position on whether the world was flat. It was the overwhelming opinion that the world was flat in the Church, but never did the Church authoritatively say that the world is flat. So naturally no, the Church never considered anyone who thought the world was round a heretic. Going a step further, the Church never actually condemned the ideas of Galileo; the reason a papal bull was issued against him was because he was trying to mix his thoughts into the realm of theology. Notice how the Church never made a big deal over Copernicus’ findings which were similar to Galileo’s.

I was just giving my thoughts.

 

[Dolezal]

I do believe the argument that Paul makes for alcohol and eating meat is the same argument that can be made for legal pot smoking. Hey, if a brother or sister can smoke legalized pot with a clear conscience before God and does not stumble another, then may that person smoke pot to the glory of God. It is the biblical position. If you think otherwise, I would like to debate this within the Scriptures.

I agree in part, but the use of marijuana can be more problematic than alcohol consumption. You do not get drunk taking a few sips of wine, but a few puffs of marijuana may already be excessive depending on the person and the THC content. So marijuana use is not as clear-cut morally as alcohol consumption.

As for the Scriptures, I do not think they are sufficient to address this issue.

 

[JustaServant]

Years ago (when I was young and stupid) I convinced a co-worker (an avid pot smoker) to smoke a crayon (actually a paper wrapped pencil) on a dare (you could smoke in the office in those days).
When the smell reached the other side of the office, a fellow worker casually walked over and asked what he was smoking (thinking it was pot). My co-worker replied “no, its a crayon”.
“Oh…ok…” the guy said, and walked away shaking his head.

I almost laughed myself into changing my pants.
I can still see the look on that guys face to this day.

 

[Bezant]

I’ve been to various Protestant churches…some discourage drinking, others prohibit it, and still others have no problem with it. I believe Catholics drink just like me. Since marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado, and medical marijuana is legal in many states, what do you believe about drinking and smoking pot?

When you consider the alcohol-related accidents and the rates of underage drinking, it makes you reconsider the casual attitude we have towards overindulgence in drinking. As it’s been mentioned before, however, there really is no scriptural or traditional basis to justify a prohibition on alcohol. As a matter of fact, wine is an almost necessary element for certain occasions and rites.

I’m sceptical of justifications for recreational use of marijuana. There’s quite few unknowns as to its long-term effects, and I am not at all convinced that its regulation will bring down illegal trafficking and drug-related crime – which has severely impaired civil freedom in a number of countries, including my family’s. So frankly, I don’t waste time with anyone who tells me a spliff is just a spliff.

 

[Polycarp1]

That something is legal has never been a good gauge in determining whether it is moral or good. Abortion is legal, and at different times slavery and murder were legal. The question is is it the will of God?

 

[Dolezal]

The Catholic Church once considered that the world was flat and called those who said the world was round a heretic.

While there were differing opinions in Antiquity, at no point since the early Middle Ages did the view prevail that the earth was flat. This is a 19th century myth. Your claims have no historical foundation.