Drinking Alcohol, Ok. Legalized Marijuana?

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Adamski said:
The above is false, I know a large number of people who smoke pot and use it in very small amounts never getting stoned and use it in moderation for ADHD. They live very successful lives and in small amouts it isn’t dangerous but anything can become addictive. Saying this I do not smoke. The main problem is because it is illegal dealers treat it as a drug and not as medicine with thier breeding. It is very difficult if you don’t know the right people to obtain a mild form.
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I too smoke with small amounts of medical marijuana. I use it for sleep, instead of taking truly addictive sleeping pills.
 
I do not know whether or not the act of smoking weed is sinful in and of itself. However, I do know that intoxication is sinful, and one must ask themselves, if they are smoking marijuana in a recreational manner, what, exactly, the intended result is.
 
PeaceInChrist said:
I do not know whether or not the act of smoking weed is sinful in and of itself. However, I do know that intoxication is sinful, and one must ask themselves, if they are smoking marijuana in a recreational manner, what, exactly, the intended result is.
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Believe it or not, but I feel a lot more spiritual when smoking marijuana. I often cannot remember my experience due to a disruption of memory, but the increase in spirituality is very noticeable.
 
Around where I live, when legalizing marijuana was on the ballot, the police were against it because they said that a high percentage of crime is linked to marijuana use. I don’t know the exact stats or anything like that, but I remember a case being made that a high percentage of those who committed crimes also smoked pot. And that a lot, if not most, people who do other illegal drugs also smoke pot.

My neighbor smokes pot (for recreational use) and one summer my pregnant SIL had to stay in my house with the windows shut for a while because she would have inhaled the fumes coming over the fence.
 
jcandles said:
LongingSoul;10784142:
Yes. I speak from experience. My 20 year old son who has thankfully now overcome his addiction, had spent the last 2 years on a rapid slide into deep depression, pre psychosis and committed to hospital for suicide risk after trying to buy a highly lethal chemical from a jewellry shop… all as a result of marijuana addiction.

I don’t intend to sound callous. I am sorry for your son’s difficulties. I have spent years in institutions, primarily and directly due to my alcohol addiction. What was your son’s addiction? You don’t clarify that above. Was it marijuana? You mention something about depression, pre-psychosis, committed to hospital; I have been there, done that. And you mention a “highly lethal chemical from a jewelry shop . . …” This chemical, was it related to marijuana, or was there some other chemical involved as a factor that explains your son’s mental health difficulties?

You say, “. . . all as a result of marijuana addiction.” Really? You think so? I don’t think so. There are too many possible other important variables – and interactions between these variables – in your son’s life that may help explain what’s going on with him. You are blaming all this on marijuana. There is more to your son’s struggles than marijuana. Brother, be honest with yourself: this isn’t all about marijuana.

You are demonizing marijuana. Good luck with that. Your views on marijuana are not going to help your son. You want to help your son? Understand him. You concerned about your son smoking marijuana? Smoke some with him, get to understand it. (You clearly do not understand marijuana.) You don’t have to condone marijuana, but for your son’s sake, smoking out with him will help him to know: Dad understands, at least a little, about where I’m at. You are so very violently opposed to marijuana that you are just alienating your son. Smoke out with your son, then go for a walk out in the woods, talk.

Look, brother: marijuana, be it good or be it evil, is just another thing. The damage that it may do in reality – the reality of about 50 million Americans who smoke it every day – is comparable to the damage done by American fast food. If there is potential for great evil in marijuana, it doesn’t compare to the evil in alcohol and all other street and pharmaceutical drugs.
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My son was addicted to marijuana for 2 years. Marijuana caused pre-psychosis and depression and the link between that substance and those conditions, is a no-brainer. He tried to buy a chemical that caused instant death in a person because he told the counsellor over the phone, he wanted to die but was afraid of a painful slow death. The counsellor instantly rang me and advised having him committed to hospital.

Secondly, I’m his mother. I’m a female. But I will pass your information onto his father and we’ll have a laugh about the most ridiculously toxic advice a drug addicts parents could ever have the misfortune to hear.

Make marijuana a Class A drug and save the mental health system a trillion dollars.
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bsroufek said:
There’s no such thing as getting a little high, as though you weren’t actually high.
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I don’t understand this argument. What’s the point? Listen, please: most folks use *both * alcohol and marijuana for effect. So marijuana’s effect is pretty much guaranteed, so what? Reality is that folks who drink drink for effect. We like the effect; when addicted, we chase the effect. Why even bother to say, “Yes, well, I can have a beer or two and it’s all good, I’m not intoxicated”? You may be in the minority of drinkers. I mean, hundreds of millions of people on earth, every day, are drinking alcohol for effect. They are drinking with the intention to become intoxicated to some extent or other. So people smoke weed for effect; most drinkers drink for effect, too. I’m glad that you can have one or two beers over the course of an evening. I can’t or won’t do that; most drinkers can’t or won’t do that. We want effect (why even bother having “a” beer).

So what if one enjoys an effect every time they smoke marijuana? Most people who use drugs – and alcohol is the single most popular drug of abuse – use to get an effect. That’s what we are after.
 
LongingSoul said:
jcandles;10793942:
My son was addicted to marijuana for 2 years. Marijuana caused pre-psychosis and depression and the link between that substance and those conditions, is a no-brainer
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Okay, the negative outcome here is pre-psychosis and depression, right? Okay, something caused that, right? You claim that marijuana caused that. All by itself. You are saying this: Marijuana is a factor directly and strongly associated with pre-psychosis and depression, and it is the only factor significantly associated with this negative outcome." You are saying that there are no possible other potential “causes”, no other variables to include in this simple model.

Really? Marijuana was the *only * cause? I disagree with you when you say: the “link between that substance and those conditions is a no-brainer.” Usually, with an outcome as complex as your son’s mental health condition, multiple factors act, both alone and in interaction with related others, to explain an outcome. Your model is too restricted. It is simply too simple: “Marijuana caused pre-psychosis and depression.” Really?? No. Marijuana may have been one factor contributing to this terrible outcome, but it was not the only factor. In fact, marijuana may indeed have *moderated * rather than exacerbated the effects of other factors.

You’re not doing your son any favors staying stuck in your attitude about marijuana. That’s why I say: please, park your attitude, and go smoke with your son if he’s still smoking. It’s not a huge deal. You’ll enjoy it! Just *listen * to him. **Listening ** is a big deal. It is something you can do to be helpful to your son. Find those other factors! What was it, besides the marijuana, that explains this pre-psychosis and depression? Really, what was really, truly going on with your son? You’ll be amazed at the things you will learn about him if you were to just sit or go for a walk with him, smoke, and talk.
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polki said:
Around where I live, when legalizing marijuana was on the ballot, the police were against it because they said that a high percentage of crime is linked to marijuana use. I don’t know the exact stats or anything like that, but I remember a case being made that a high percentage of those who committed crimes also smoked pot. And that a lot, if not most, people who do other illegal drugs also smoke pot.
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Yes, the police reported an association between marijuana use and crime. But what is the nature of that association? And what about the millions and millions of cases where marijuana use is not anywhere near being associated with crime? Marijuana is illegal; perhaps – just perhaps – that is why it is associated with crime. Were marijuana legal, people who choose to smoke would not be engaged in crime. We become criminals to acquire a valuable substance – a substance that often is medicinal for us.

The real problem here is marijuana’s status as an illegal substance. Don’t you think, really, that were marijuana legal, the whole crime thing would become moot? Yes, criminals will smoke marijuana. And so will powerful business people, civic leaders, academics and intellectuals. Farmers, factory workers, WalMart customer service folks . . . . The list is immense! So what if “criminals” smoke marijuana? So do a lot of otherwise law-abiding people.
 
jcandles said:
LongingSoul;10800716:
Okay, the negative outcome here is pre-psychosis and depression, right? Okay, something caused that, right? You claim that marijuana caused that. All by itself. You are saying this: Marijuana is a factor directly and strongly associated with pre-psychosis and depression, and it is the only factor significantly associated with this negative outcome." You are saying that there are no possible other potential “causes”, no other variables to include in this simple model.

Really? Marijuana was the *only *
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cause? I disagree with you when you say: the “link between that substance and those conditions is a no-brainer.” Usually, with an outcome as complex as your son’s mental health condition, multiple factors act, both alone and in interaction with related others, to explain an outcome. Your model is too restricted. It is simply too simple: “Marijuana caused pre-psychosis and depression.” Really?? No. Marijuana may have been one factor contributing to this terrible outcome, but it was not the only factor. **In fact, marijuana may indeed have *moderated *** rather than exacerbated the effects of other factors.

This is the standard addicts defense of drugs. “It helps me cope. My life would be worse without it”. That’s part of the seduction of drugs. My son resisted getting off it even after we started him with the counsellor and psychiatrist because he said it helped him to sleep. He didn’t think that he could achieve good sleep without it even though prior to starting on marijuana (sadly in his Gr 11 year at high school and a reputable Catholic one at that)… he was highly sporty and active and had no problems sleeping.

Thank goodness the professionals somehow managed to convince him to get off it and thanks be to God, he fell out with the lads who were supplying it to him. Now he goes to gym everyday and I make sure he has 3 healthy meals everyday and fight him away from the coffee machine after about 4pm. He was prescribed sleeping tabs and one repeat on it and was told by the psych to make sure these tabs were just a stop gap measure. He is now rediscovering his natural body clock and inner calm and sleeps all night without anything.

As a result of my experience with my son, I’m motivated to volunteer with a wonderful Catholic psychiatric care ministry run by our city. People who’ve seen what marijuana does to a loved one, need to stand up and yell and scream above the lie that it is a sweet, helpful ‘friend’. It is not.
You’re not doing your son any favors staying stuck in your attitude about marijuana. That’s why I say: please, park your attitude, and go smoke with your son if he’s still smoking. It’s not a huge deal. You’ll enjoy it! Just *listen *
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to him. **Listening ** is a big deal. It is something you can do to be helpful to your son. Find those other factors! What was it, besides the marijuana, that explains this pre-psychosis and depression? Really, what was really, truly going on with your son? You’ll be amazed at the things you will learn about him if you were to just sit or go for a walk with him, smoke, and talk.

We read the report that the psychiatrist who’d been treating him through the worst wrote for the case worker at the mental health unit, which stated that my son had had an unremarkable history and normal childhood. We knew that already. He was a tennis prodigy and his coach had been killed in a car accident but without access to marijuana, people are able to go through a normal healthy grieving process and come out the other side.

I’m afraid I’ll never give marijuana any credit for any good purpose whatsoever. Even small amounts of the stuff, turn a person inward and self absorbed, isolating their spirit from those around them. Alcohol at its best, with meals and celebratory, does the opposite… encouraging communion and spiritual generosity within the gathering.

I hope you see the light soon.
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jcandles said:
Yes, the police reported an association between marijuana use and crime. But what is the nature of that association? And what about the millions and millions of cases where marijuana use is not anywhere near being associated with crime? Marijuana is illegal; perhaps – just perhaps – that is why it is associated with crime. Were marijuana legal, people who choose to smoke would not be engaged in crime. We become criminals to acquire a valuable substance – a substance that often is medicinal for us.

The real problem here is marijuana’s status as an illegal substance. Don’t you think, really, that were marijuana legal, the whole crime thing would become moot? Yes, criminals will smoke marijuana. And so will powerful business people, civic leaders, academics and intellectuals. Farmers, factory workers, WalMart customer service folks . . . . The list is immense! So what if “criminals” smoke marijuana? So do a lot of otherwise law-abiding people.
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The “crimes” they were referring to were things other than illegal marijuana possession. Things like narcotics possession, breaking and entering, larceny, and violence crimes. I think the police know what they are talking about, since they arrest the same people over and over for possession and selling. So no I don’t think the whole crime thing would be moot.
Don’t you think it would be easier on the police if marijuana was legal and then they could focus on preventing and solving more serious crimes than marijuana possession and dealing/selling? Yet they are against it.
 
Alcohol is indisputably far more harmful than marijuana in every conceivable way. There is no scientifically accepted argument to the contrary in existence.
 
polki said:
Around where I live, when legalizing marijuana was on the ballot, the police were against it because they said that a high percentage of crime is linked to marijuana use. I don’t know the exact stats or anything like that, but I remember a case being made that a high percentage of those who committed crimes also smoked pot. And that a lot, if not most, people who do other illegal drugs also smoke pot.
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Not all police are opposed to marijuana legalization. There’s growing support for an end to prohibition in the law enforcement community.
 
My thinking is this: yes, marijuana is harmful. No doubt.

But so are alcohol and tobacco. Yet these are explicitly not prohibited in the catechism.

Alcohol can be addictive. So can Tobacco. As can marijuana. All three can be harmful. But it is impossible to overdose on marijuana.

I would say, therefore, marijuana is actually less harmful than alcohol - which Christ Himself confects into His Blood, which means alcohol is a blessing. In point of fact, there is a blessing for BEER. So alcohol is a good thing.

If marijuana is LESS harmful than beer, or wine, or other alcohol, I do not see why toking should be considered worse than drinking.

HOWEVER, while marijuana is illegal in this country, we are called to abide by the State’s laws. But that does not mean we cannot lobby to have marijuana legalised.
 
Forkfoot said:
Alcohol is indisputably far more harmful than marijuana in every conceivable way. There is no scientifically accepted argument to the contrary in existence.
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Perhaps not in every way. Cannabinoids stay in the system considerably longer than alcohol. I have known a lot of MJ smokers in my life, and I’ll say that I would never knowingly hire a person who uses MJ. With alcohol, you can readily detect recent use. With MJ you can’t, but the person is impaired anyway. If you look at post-injury drug screens in industry, you rarely see alcohol in a person’s system. You see metabolites of cannabis a lot.
 
I really do hope that everyone on this forum understands that when it comes to what a more dangerous drug is… alcohol is in another universe compared to weed.

John Hopkins society has studied the dangers of all substances for years. Alcohol is in the same category as cocaine, meth, and heroin. Weed is a bit safer than coffee - but more dangerous than safer drugs such as lsd and mushrooms.

Instead of quoting what the media wants to hear us say… as intelligent people, we should seek truth…

So maybe you would not hire someone who smokes JM… Here is a question for you then. Who would you rather your son or daughter marry… a drinker, or a weed smoker?

But be truthful to yourself.
Ridgerunner said:
Perhaps not in every way. Cannabinoids stay in the system considerably longer than alcohol. I have known a lot of MJ smokers in my life, and I’ll say that I would never knowingly hire a person who uses MJ. With alcohol, you can readily detect recent use. With MJ you can’t, but the person is impaired anyway. If you look at post-injury drug screens in industry, you rarely see alcohol in a person’s system. You see metabolites of cannabis a lot.
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Oh, sorry - forgot to mention.

I’m not condoning one or the other… just saying drinking is very harmful.

🙂
 
Alcoholic beverages have been around since ancient times. Today they are legal in our society…with the hopes of responsible use. There have, however, been problems.

Why should we add another form of “intoxication” to the “legal” list???
 
Zoltan_Cobalt said:
Alcoholic beverages have been around since ancient times. Today they are legal in our society…with the hopes of responsible use. There have, however, been problems.

Why should we add another form of “intoxication” to the “legal” list???
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For the same reason alcohol is legal. The societal cost of enforcing such bans is approaching (in some respects faster) that of the substance.

The cost isn’t just incarceration cost but also families broken up by incarceration, loss of trust & cooperation as the police and courts are seen as tearing apart families, abuses by police in the war on drugs, and people unable to get decent jobs because they fail criminal background checks for the rest of their lives.
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
For the same reason alcohol is legal. The societal cost of enforcing such bans is approaching (in some respects faster) that of the substance.

The cost isn’t just incarceration cost but also families broken up by incarceration, loss of trust & cooperation as the police and courts are seen as tearing apart families, abuses by police in the war on drugs, and people unable to get decent jobs because they fail criminal background checks for the rest of their lives.
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I see…

So because enforcement and justice has a negative effect on the guilty we should accept dangerous behavior as a way of life???
 
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