Drinking Alcohol, Ok. Legalized Marijuana?

[HerCrazierHalf]

I see…

So because enforcement and justice has a negative effect on the guilty we should accept dangerous behavior as a way of life???

The effects of enforcement affect entire communities, not just the guilty plus it seems the enforcement is much more hazardous than the behavior itself.

And they are guilty of something that shouldn’t be a crime, harming oneself (provided it isn’t a dui or other extraordinary danger to others)

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

The effects of enforcement affect entire communities, not just the guilty plus it seems the enforcement is much more hazardous than the behavior itself.

Sorry I don’t see it that way at all. Deterring illegal behavior (enforcement), removing offenders from society and reducing recidivism, protects the law abiding and society as a whole.

And they are guilty of something that shouldn’t be a crime, harming oneself (provided it isn’t a dui or other extraordinary danger to others)

Harming oneself (drugs/alcohol abuse) is an extraordinary burden on society. It raises medical costs resulting in higher health insurance premiums and taxes required to provide care for those who THINK they are only harming themselves.

 

[christianvoice]

This all has to do with money in the end. Law enforcement gets a lot of funding for vice (i.e. drugs). As well, keeping most recreational drugs illegal, helps legal drug dealers (i.e. alcohol makers, tobacco companies, etc) keep the competition out.

Here in Canada, we are on the brink of full legalization. Guess who is now in Ottawa protesting like never before… The biker gangs.

Please remember guys, drugs being illegal is not the result of an all loving government who cares for anyone’s health. Its all about money and control. Also, lets face it , in our society, almost everyone uses some substance or another to cope with stress - many on here probably use alcohol, cafeene, and some maybe even tobacco. These substances produce differt social norms. Drugs such as weed, mushrooms, psychedelics - make people think and question what they see happening in this world. Look at what happened in the 60’s. Bunch of hippies dropped acid, and for the first time ever - stood up to the government… said no to war… said no to discrimination, racism, sexism, etc… The powers that try to keep control over things do not like this kind of society. That is why alcohol and tobacco are legal. Those substances do not make you think… they make you numb. Think about why the Europeans gave alcohol and tobacco to the aboriginals when they first came to north America. It made it easy for them to come in and take over.

Things are never quite what they seem…

Question for the forum. How many of you are ok with having “moral laws” as part of the criminal justice system? i.e. drugs, prostitution, etc… in other words, victim less crimes. When we allow a system of morality police, then we need to take a deeper look at counties such as Saudi, and the middle east. They have morality laws there too… is that were you want to see your country go? If you take off the shades - you’ll see that is where we are heading…

The effects of enforcement affect entire communities, not just the guilty plus it seems the enforcement is much more hazardous than the behavior itself.

And they are guilty of something that shouldn’t be a crime, harming oneself (provided it isn’t a dui or other extraordinary danger to others)

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Sorry I don’t see it that way at all. Deterring illegal behavior (enforcement), removing offenders from society and reducing recidivism, protects the law abiding and society as a whole.

In a perfect world with near perfect enforcement (few abuses of power, low collateral damage, highly effective) I might agree with you. But as handled over the past few decades it is simply harmful to society and drugs are somewhat easy to find.

Tobacco and alcohol are legal and are seeing decreasing rates of usage through public information campaigns. Plus when is the last time Budweiser started a gang war against Coors?

Harming oneself (drugs/alcohol abuse) is an extraordinary burden on society. It raises medical costs resulting in higher health insurance premiums and taxes required to provide care for those who THINK they are only harming themselves.

Prison is incredibly expensive too.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

In a perfect world with near perfect enforcement (few abuses of power, low collateral damage, highly effective) I might agree with you. But as handled over the past few decades it is simply harmful to society and drugs are somewhat easy to find.

I’m sorry I just can’t accept that.You will have to show me some of these “abuses of power” and maybe an example or two of the “collateral damage” that has occurred over the last few decades.

Prison is incredibly expensive too

.

But worth it

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I’m sorry I just can’t accept that.You will have to show me some of these “abuses of power” and maybe an example or two of the “collateral damage” that has occurred over the last few decades.

Sure.
Civil forfeiture was originally supposed to reclaim the fruits of the drug trade. However, there are many cases of abuse in which innocent people lose homes, cash, and other property with little recourse.
(Bad Language in video, but article is ok) mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news&id=286271031&

Excessive use of no knock raids resulting in dead innocent civilians and dead/injured cops often at the wrong house or recovering little to no drugs… If someone breaks through my door it is only natural to treat then as hostile and respond with immediate deadly force.
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4816235
fox13now.com/2012/10/05/slc-police-apologize-for-no-knock-raid-on-wrong-house/

And cavity searches followed by colonoscopy yet yielding no drugs. Officer said he twitched during pat down, obviously he surmised he was concealing.
usnews.com/news/articles/2013/11/05/man-seeks-millions-after-nm-police-force-colonoscopy-in-drug-search

These are all fairly recent.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Sure.
Civil forfeiture was originally supposed to reclaim the fruits of the drug trade. However, there are many cases of abuse in which innocent people lose homes, cash, and other property with little recourse.
(Bad Language in video, but article is ok) mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news&id=286271031&

Excessive use of no knock raids resulting in dead innocent civilians and dead/injured cops often at the wrong house or recovering little to no drugs… If someone breaks through my door it is only natural to treat then as hostile and respond with immediate deadly force.
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4816235
fox13now.com/2012/10/05/slc-police-apologize-for-no-knock-raid-on-wrong-house/

And cavity searches followed by colonoscopy yet yielding no drugs. Officer said he twitched during pat down, obviously he surmised he was concealing.
usnews.com/news/articles/2013/11/05/man-seeks-millions-after-nm-police-force-colonoscopy-in-drug-search

These are all fairly recent.

So you are of the opinion that controlled substances should be legalized and then the world would be a better place…??

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

So you are of the opinion that controlled substances should be legalized and then the world would be a better place…??

Not all substances are created equal, but yes. Some controlled substances should be legalized because then it can be better managed as a health/addiction issue instead of criminal.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Not all substances are created equal, but yes. Some controlled substances should be legalized because then it can be better managed as a health/addiction issue instead of criminal.

I see that as costing society a lot more in social health costs than enforcing laws.

Anyway, it seems as if you are promoting the idea that since people will continue to break laws…the laws should be repealed and people should do whatever they want.

 

[HelenRose]

There is some logic to that question but in my experience: Everyone I know who does “pot” also drinks alcohol and smokes tobacco. So they are getting a triple dose of trouble.

But, in order to face my grandchildren who pose that question to me, I have pretty much given up alcohol and I gave up smoking tobacco years and years ago.

It hasn’t been a dreadful transition.

 

[Sunbreak]

So legalization of marijuana is right around the corner, here in Canada.
Now to preface this, I have no issue with alcohol, but I avoid it because I just do not like the taste of it.
But when marijuana is legalized, if used in moderation, like drinking, can it be enjoyed without committing a sin?
I’ve heard from friends and people who I believe as respected Christians, that once its legal, and used correctly, then it shouldn’t be accounted as sin.

Not that long ago alcohol itself was illegal as well…

So I don’t know what to think…thoughts?

Peace,
~ PetiteFoi

Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is moral. For example, prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada. It’s still wrong.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I see that as costing society a lot more in social health costs than enforcing laws.

Anyway, it seems as if you are promoting the idea that since people will continue to break laws…the laws should be repealed and people should do whatever they want.

I guess I’ll agree to disagree. I think that the same goal (reducing drug use & reduced violence) can be achieved without making it a criminal issue.

 

[edwest2]

Marijuana has no defined “safe use” limit. It has not been approved as a medicine by the FDA, since if it were, it would be sold in drug stores, by prescription. Alcohol is not marijuana.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151021114956.htm

And then there’s the issue of legal marijuana and driving under the influence fatalities.

kgw.com/story/news/local/marijuana/2015/08/19/fatal-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-washington/32029727/

Just google marijuana rehab. Why take the risk? And what is the cost? Even if treatment is better than prison, why risk it?

Ed

 

[christianvoice]

No one talks about “safe use” for cannabis - because it is a very safe substance. You cannot OD on it like you can with other harder drugs - such as alcohol and cocaine. Furthermore, drugs such as alcholol make a large number of people violent, its the number one killer of all teens - people over dose on alcholol every day in the US. The issue with alcohol is that it makes the government a lot of money… Ever wonder why they try so hard to separate alohol from drugs… its all the same:

Drug overdose / Alcohol possessing: its the same thing.
Drug Addict / Alcoholic: same thing.

As a matter of fact… there is a very large list of drugs that are way safer than alcohol…Weed is sooo much safter than booze… (you cannot die from it if anything). LSD, Exctacy, Mushrooms - all %10000 safter than alcholol.

Really - you should do the research:

commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HarmCausedByDrugsTable.svg

And everyone who dies on the road does so while drunk… not usually high. that is such a rare thing. Stoned people do not make the same stupid mistakes drunks make.

As a parent, and a christian, I would much rather have my kids grow up in a world where people smoke weed - vs drink. How about you? Would you really rather you kids marry someone who drinks vs someone who puffs

Marijuana has no defined “safe use” limit. It has not been approved as a medicine by the FDA, since if it were, it would be sold in drug stores, by prescription. Alcohol is not marijuana.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151021114956.htm

And then there’s the issue of legal marijuana and driving under the influence fatalities.

kgw.com/story/news/local/marijuana/2015/08/19/fatal-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-washington/32029727/

Just google marijuana rehab. Why take the risk? And what is the cost? Even if treatment is better than prison, why risk it?

Ed

 

[Polluted]

The catechism is the only thing that needs to answers this thread. That being ALL drugs outside tobacco or alcphol (except on therapeutic grounds) is forbidden. If that changes great, if not…it’s still great news

In other words, if you are dying of cancer or actually have a legit medical condition. Grab your bong, but be aware it does come with a price. I lived in Humboldt county for 6 years. Its true the vast bulk of people don’t end up seriously hurt by marijuana…it just kills their motivation and some of them just become drop outs of sorts.

I for one however will most DEFINITELY smoke marijuana like a vacuum once I find myself getting ready to check out and it’s needed medicinally. I couldn’t care less what any nay sayers are preaching. The chetechism is enough for me.

By the way did you guys know heroin is legal in some countries as a painkiller for the dying.

 

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