Duggar Interview

[Convert_in_99]

And what he had “access” to were his siblings and another young girl .

I really hope you’re not suggesting that if Josh could look at pornography or have sex, he would have not have molested.

As Mary Gail has said, plenty of boys who are the same age as Josh do not have access to pornography or sex, but would never molest anyone. What Josh did was not because he had nothing else to turn to.

Lou

I address you and Mary Gail (whose post disappeared )

Not every boy sins sexually. Thanks be to God! But sexual (especially exploratory on self and others) sins are very common with boys. Josh couldnt go to the store and check out a lightly clad magazine, he was never alone with a girl that wasn’t related to him. This is how he sinned sexually. I choose to believe that his intentions were curiosity and not malice. We will never know for sure, but that’s my choice.

 

[Lou2U]

I address you and Mary Gail (whose post disappeared )

Not every boy sins sexually. Thanks be to God! But sexual (especially exploratory on self and others) sins are very common with boys. Josh couldnt go to the store and check out a lightly clad magazine, he was never alone with a girl that wasn’t related to him. This is how he sinned sexually. I choose to believe that his intentions were curiosity and not malice. We will never know for sure, but that’s my choice.

I hope that his intentions were not malice, but it does not change the fact that there are five victims suffering from his actions.

I do agree with you that the restrictions placed on Josh (and all of the other Duggar children) probably did more harm than good, but I can’t see Jim Bob and Michelle changing now. They will probably pull away even more tightly to try and prevent something like this happening again, with even more restrictions.

Lou

 

[Convert_in_99]

I’ve seen John Corapi speak.He claimed this quote as something he said at a prison when he visited.

Please provide the source please, of Fulton Sheen saying that quote. I cannot find it.

catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/archbishop-fulton-j-sheen-master-preacher-master-of-the-air-waves.html

Warning its long. Way down towards the bottom. I’ll see if I can find shorter

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t think he’d mind because I know what he meant. Basically there are few alive who have not comitted a mortal sin. All mortal sin merits hell without Jesus forgiveness. So in reality all who comit mortal sin merit “jail” (worse actually.) More crimes used to merit jail or a death sentence. If adultery were still a punishable crime half our nation would be in jail.

“there are few alive who have not committed mortal sin?” Now who is judging? I find it odd that one of the defenses of Josh could be to condemn and judge all others!?

So lets look at the millions or billions who may be being condemned here. 1) Babies. 2) The mentally ill 3) The Ignorant and 4 the innocent. Now if your position is true, if almost everyone is in mortal sin and the only way to get out of jail is through the forgiveness of the sacrament, and less than the majority have access to that sacrament… well you are sure condemning a lot of people by lumping them in with a 14 year old who succumbed not only to the evil of sexualizing a child but also had it be one of his own family. People he was supposed to watch and protect.

The sheer blindness of people on here about sexual abuse of kids shocks me. And the alarm is made worse by the fact that as Catholics we should be more educated about these things. Not to mention being educated about sin, and forgiveness. None of which we know that Josh has. None of us know that. He had no recourse to the only known way for a sin to be forgiven. And we have know way of knowing of his contrition. What we do know is that it happened and it was hidden.

Would you support josh opening a daycare. He legally could…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I address you and Mary Gail (whose post disappeared )

Not every boy sins sexually. Thanks be to God! But sexual (especially exploratory on self and others) sins are very common with boys. Josh couldnt go to the store and check out a lightly clad magazine, he was never alone with a girl that wasn’t related to him. This is how he sinned sexually. I choose to believe that his intentions were curiosity and not malice. We will never know for sure, but that’s my choice.

I had deleted my post.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/archbishop-fulton-j-sheen-master-preacher-master-of-the-air-waves.html

Warning its long. Way down towards the bottom. I’ll see if I can find shorter

I believe he said it. I also believe you are using it incorrectly.

For the record I also believe he said what people say he said about public vs Catholic schools.

It is odd that for a man who was one of the first Catholics in the record-able media that we have so little proof of many of hi s comments.

 

[ucfengr]

Please start your own thread about this topic you keep bringing up. This thread is about the Duggar interview and derailing it is against forum etiquette.

He didn’t “cop a feel”, he repeatedly touched the breasts and public region of his 5 year-old sister, several other sisters that weren’t even teenagers yet, and another young girl. Quit minimizing this in an effort to promote your own post. Simply go start a new thread!!!

I think that’s the definition of “copping a feel”. Yeah, it’s kind of weird, but really not that far out of normal for teenage boys. The parents dealt with it internally and the boy and his sisters seems to have turned out okay. The family weren’t public figures at the time of the incident. It was just another family. It’s kind of surprising to me that a lot of people act as if the parent’s first action should have been to get the legal system involved rather than the last. Do you really think it appropriate to send a teenage boy to jail as the first response? Would you do that to your own kid?

 

[Convert_in_99]

“there are few alive who have not committed mortal sin?” Now who is judging? I find it odd that one of the defenses of Josh could be to condemn and judge all others!?

So lets look at the millions or billions who may be being condemned here. 1) Babies. 2) The mentally ill 3) The Ignorant and 4 the innocent. Now if your position is true, if almost everyone is in mortal sin and the only way to get out of jail is through the forgiveness of the sacrament, and less than the majority have access to that sacrament… well you are sure condemning a lot of people by lumping them in with a 14 year old who succumbed not only to the evil of sexualizing a child but also had it be one of his own family. People he was supposed to watch and protect.

The sheer blindness of people on here about sexual abuse of kids shocks me. And the alarm is made worse by the fact that as Catholics we should be more educated about these things. Not to mention being educated about sin, and forgiveness. None of which we know that Josh has. None of us know that. He had no recourse to the only known way for a sin to be forgiven. And we have know way of knowing of his contrition. What we do know is that it happened and it was hidden.

Would you support josh opening a daycare. He legally could…

Obviously among those capable of mortal sin! rolleyes I would say that most people have comitted at least one mortal sin in their lives. It’s not hard, unfortunately.

I don’t believe we hold the only set of keys to God’s forgiving heart.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I think that’s the definition of “copping a feel”. Yeah, it’s kind of weird, but really not that far out of normal for teenage boys. The parents dealt with it internally and the boy and his sisters seems to have turned out okay. The family weren’t public figures at the time of the incident. It was just another family. It’s kind of surprising to me that a lot of people act as if the parent’s first action should have been to get the legal system involved rather than the last. Do you really think it appropriate to send a teenage boy to jail as the first response? Would you do that to your own kid?

Yeah I have a stinking suspicion that if this happened IRL to one of their own children that they’d be any better than the Duggars (save of course the stupidity of getting themselves on TV. ). Would they prefer that the cop send their kid jail for the first offense, or would they not be thankful that the system spared them and gave them their freedom.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think that’s the definition of “copping a feel”. Yeah, it’s kind of weird, but really not that far out of normal for teenage boys. The parents dealt with it internally and the boy and his sisters seems to have turned out okay. It’s kind of surprising to me that a lot of people act as if the parent’s first action should have been to get the legal system involved rather than the last. Do you really think it appropriate to send a teenage boy to jail as the first response? Would you do that to your own kid?

You are darn right I would call the cops. If a 14 year old son of mine touched my child’s vaginal area in a sexual manner I would probably need to call the cops and an ambulance… I could care less that he came in crying about it. I would take steps to protect my family from all threats inside and out. Now, if you are saying that some would not call the cops I would point out that not calling can cause you to lose your entire family. And Jim Bob continues to try to control this.

For the record I have no idea about Josh as a man or as a forgiven and repentant man. I do think he needs something other than their rinky dink therapy and “handling of the situation” I do however have a pretty good idea about Jim Bob. And as much as I have defended him and even tried to model some of his fatherhood aspects in my own life, he is looking more and more like a monster. At the very least he failed to do what he feels is the obligation of the husband and father to do and that is protect his family. And he failed so poorly after this that he exploited them for money. Knowing full well about these incidents. How dare they!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Obviously among those capable of mortal sin! rolleyes I would say that most people have comitted at least one mortal sin in their lives. It’s not hard, unfortunately.

I don’t believe we hold the only set of keys to God’s forgiving heart.

Interesting personal beliefs.

Would you leave your child with Josh as a sitter? If your Church had a VBS and Josh led it would you be comfortable with that?

 

[ucfengr]

You are darn right I would call the cops. If a 14 year old son of mine touched my child’s vaginal area in a sexual manner I would probably need to call the cops and an ambulance… I could care less that he came in crying about it. I would take steps to protect my family from all threats inside and out. Now, if you are saying that some would not call the cops I would point out that not calling can cause you to lose your entire family. And Jim Bob continues to try to control this.

For the record I have no idea about Josh as a man or as a forgiven and repentant man. I do think he needs something other than their rinky dink therapy and “handling of the situation” I do however have a pretty good idea about Jim Bob. And as much as I have defended him and even tried to model some of his fatherhood aspects in my own life, he is looking more and more like a monster. At the very least he failed to do what he feels is the obligation of the husband and father to do and that is protect his family. And he failed so poorly after this that he exploited them for money. Knowing full well about these incidents. How dare they!

Most people prefer to deal with families matters internally if possible rather than getting the legal system involved. If you think jail is an appropriate first response for dealing with internal family matters, I would disagree, but ultimately you have the right to handle your family as you choose, though I imagine if you need an ambulance for your son, you’ll probably be joining your son in prison. I’m not sure I see how that is a good outcome for your family.

 

[Lou2U]

I think that’s the definition of “copping a feel”. Yeah, it’s kind of weird, but really not that far out of normal for teenage boys.

Molesting five young girls, four of them sisters is not “not that far out of normal”, especially as they could not give consent and at least one was asleep when it happened.

The parents dealt with it internally and the boy and his sisters seems to have turned out okay.

Josh was allowed into the same home as his victims without professional counselling. That is not “dealing with it”. We don’t know what impact Josh’s actions have had on his siblings and we don’t know if Josh is at risk of re-offending.

The family weren’t public figures at the time of the incident. It was just another family. It’s kind of surprising to me that a lot of people act as if the parent’s first action should have been to get the legal system involved rather than the last. Do you really think it appropriate to send a teenage boy to jail as the first response? Would you do that to your own kid?

My first priority would have been to the victims, and if reporting my own child to the police meant the safety of others would be ensured, then so be it. I would not have appeared on national television promoting sexual chastity and using analogies such as the one Xantippe referred to (about the bicycle) when I knew of the molestation that took place in my home.

Lou

 

[LightBound]

Yeah I have a stinking suspicion that if this happened IRL to one of their own children that they’d be any better than the Duggars (save of course the stupidity of getting themselves on TV. ). Would they prefer that the cop send their kid jail for the first offense, or would they not be thankful that the system spared them and gave them their freedom.

Not only would I call the police, I would make sure that the victims and the offender received appropriate therapy for what occurred, right away for the victims and in the context of the juvenile justice system for the offender!

You are quick to make snide assumptions about us, so please share what you would do? Would you call the police or would you just decide that as long as someone is sorry and asks for forgiveness, all will be fine?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Most people prefer to deal with families matters internally if possible rather than getting the legal system involved. If you think jail is an appropriate first response for dealing with internal family matters, I would disagree, but ultimately you have the right to handle your family as you choose, though I imagine if you need an ambulance for your son, you’ll probably be joining your son in prison. I’m not sure I see how that is a good outcome for your family.

I would think failure to report sexual abuse to the authorities is a crime in itself. So there would be potential prison charges for your suggestion as well. As well as what you are suggesting being illegal and immoral.

HOW IN THE WORLD HAVE WE NOT LEARNED OUR LESSON AS CATHOLICS ON THIS!!! It should not be handled in house!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Megan Kelly said in her interview that 90% of young boys like Josh do learn from their mistakes. Who’s right, you or her??? God Bless, Memaw

Megan Kelly giving an incomplete and misleading statistic doesn’t make her right. In cases of incestuous child sex abuse, the recidivism rate among boys who are caught soon after the abuse begins and receive immediate professional counseling is 8-12%. The longer it goes on, the more victims there are, and the longer they go without valid counseling, the recidivism rate goes up to the point that there’s no difference between them and other child molesters. So what Megan Kelly said was utterly untrue about Josh’s situation.

Plus, I assure you that your argument that this wasn’t incest wouldn’t fly in a court of law.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Most people prefer to deal with families matters internally if possible rather than getting the legal system involved. If you think jail is an appropriate first response for dealing with internal family matters, I would disagree, but ultimately you have the right to handle your family as you choose, though I imagine if you need an ambulance for your son, you’ll probably be joining your son in prison. I’m not sure I see how that is a good outcome for your family.

Is there a specific number of times an innocent child has to be sexually preyed upon and abused before you think you should call the cops? What is that number?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I would think failure to report sexual abuse to the authorities is a crime in itself. So there would be potential prison charges for your suggestion as well. As well as what you are suggesting being illegal and immoral.

You’re 100% correct. If this had come to light sooner, at least around me, Jim Bob and Michelle would have been facing charges and all the kids would be in protective custody.

HOW IN THE WORLD HAVE WE NOT LEARNED OUR LESSON AS CATHOLICS ON THIS!!! It should not be handled in house!

Again, 100% correct. I don’t know how people who realize what our bishops did was wrong can be defending the Duggars for making the same mistake.

 

[LightBound]

Most people prefer to deal with families matters internally if possible rather than getting the legal system involved. If you think jail is an appropriate first response for dealing with internal family matters, I would disagree, but ultimately you have the right to handle your family as you choose, though I imagine if you need an ambulance for your son, you’ll probably be joining your son in prison. I’m not sure I see how that is a good outcome for your family.

“Family matters”? Dear Lord have mercy! This isn’t a spat over Aunt Mildred’s china or who gets the house when Uncle Al dies, or even about someone’s alcoholism. This is about repeated sexual abuse of minors!! What in the name of all that is holy is wrong with you people that keep acting like its a kid that swiped a piece of bubble gum?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Here’s a post you may find helpful. It’s about sin-leveling:

calvinistjaneway.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/john-piper-rape-seduction-and-sin-leveling/

Some quotes:

"Unfortunately, the entire SBC denomination has a history of minimizing and denying rape, including, but not limited to:

1. Victim blaming. “What were you wearing? Why were you out so late? Why did you let yourself be alone with him? Did you seduce him?”
2. Sin-Leveling: “His sin AND yours both nailed Jesus to the cross—don’t forget that! If you refuse to forgive him, your sin is just as great as his.”
3. Magical Thinking: “Yes, he raped someone in the past, but his sins were washed away by Jesus, and he’s a new person, and he won’t do that anymore.”"

“I found out over time that my mother (that evil feminist) was the only person who thought [a rape-y Protestant deacon] should be removed from church leadership. The reasoning was, “After all, everyone sins. He has been forgiven, you know.””

“Sin-leveling usually doesn’t make a sinner more aware of their own depravity and Christ’s forgiveness. Instead, it elevates minor offenses to the level of a crime, and minimizes actual crimes to the level of gossip.”

“Paul said, “Expel the immoral brother from among you,” regarding the man who “had his father’s wife.” Yet, for Euodia and Syntyche, Paul “pleaded” with them to agree. Not all sins affect the body of Christ equally, and sin-leveling is not Biblical. Sins must be dealt with differently by the church, as part of pastoral care. Crimes must be dealt with by the proper authorities.”

(I should note that the Duggars are not Southern Baptists but Independent Baptists, so it’s not the same thing, but they are theological cousins.)

Yes. Put another way:

In talking about the sexual molestation, Michelle said: “Every one of us has done wrong things. That’s why Jesus came!” Michelle doesn’t understand how this statement downplays abuse. Jim-Bob said: “This wasn’t rape or anything like that”—I mean, what kind of comfort is that to victims of sexual abuse? It’s like saying: “Hey, at least you weren’t raped.”

But those statements demonstrate the critical flaw in the Duggar fundamentalist theology; it’s why they don’t see sexual molestation as particularly worse than, say, lying about how many cookies you stole from the cookie jar. When everything is evil, NOTHING is actually evil.