Duggar Interview

[Xantippe]

You all are back to bashing Josh. I agree wholeheartedly that the parents could have handled this much better and that their putting their family on TV was a bad idea, horrible even when you consider that they knew this could come out and ruin their son’s life.

But why couldn’t Josh be a changed man? Why keep beating him down that he still has issues? Back to the “whoever among you is without sin, be the one to cast the first stone.” I know I haven’t had the best track record in my life, it ain’t going to be me!

He might be. He might not be. We do not have enough information to say one way or another.

Meanwhile 4 children are growing up in their home and they will almost certainly have more.

 

[Lou2U]

He might be. He might not be. We do not have enough information to say one way or another.

Meanwhile 4 children are growing up in their home and they will almost certainly have more.

This.

It is dangerous to assume Josh is a changed man when there is no evidence of this. His children could be in danger if Josh has not had proper counselling (it is not clear whether this counselling was professional or not) and again: forgiving does not equal forgetting.

Lou

 

[ComputerGeek25]

This.

It is dangerous to assume Josh is a changed man when there is no evidence of this. His children could be in danger if Josh has not had proper counselling (it is not clear whether this counselling was professional or not) and again: forgiving does not equal forgetting.

Lou

And even if you are forgiven, that doesn’t mean that one is absolved of all the punishment/consequences of their wrong doing. For example, I bet Josh is never able to get a job dealing with children.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I’m sorry, but having been a repentant sinner myself I know that people can and do change. I’m glad I don’t have restrictions on my life because of the sins I’ve comitted against God and others. I remember something that Bishop Fulton Sheen once said when visiting a prison. He said “the only thing different between you and me is that you got caught!” When you think about it, we really all should be behind bars.

 

[Lou2U]

I’m sorry, but having been a repentant sinner myself I know that people can and do change. I’m glad I don’t have restrictions on my life because of the sins I’ve comitted against God and others. I remember something that Bishop Fulton Sheen once said when visiting a prison. He said “the only thing different between you and me is that you got caught!” When you think about it, we really all should be behind bars.

People can change. This is not disputed.

Josh committed a crime against young children. Should he have no restrictions on working with children in the future based on the hope he has changed?

Josh should have restrictions on his life because he molested four of his sisters and one other girl. You can be glad you have no restrictions, but Josh deserves them, for the safety of others.

Like ComputerGeek25 said: “even if you are forgiven, that doesn’t mean that one is absolved of all the punishment/consequences of their wrong doing”.

Lou

 

[Convert_in_99]

People can change. This is not disputed.

Josh committed a crime against young children. Should he have no restrictions on working with children in the future based on the hope he has changed?

Josh should have restrictions on his life because he molested four of his sisters and one other girl. You can be glad you have no restrictions, but Josh deserves them, for the safety of others.

Like ComputerGeek25 said: “even if you are forgiven, that doesn’t mean that one is absolved of all the punishment/consequences of their wrong doing”.

Lou

I’m not going to debate further, it is pointless. We are at odds. I will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

People can change. This is not disputed.

Josh committed a crime against young children. Should he have no restrictions on working with children in the future based on the hope he has changed?

Josh should have restrictions on his life because he molested four of his sisters and one other girl. You can be glad you have no restrictions, but Josh deserves them, for the safety of others.

Like ComputerGeek25 said: “even if you are forgiven, that doesn’t mean that one is absolved of all the punishment/consequences of their wrong doing”.

Lou

Agreed.

Many places of employment, such as banks or military contractors will not hire people with felonies on their record. They may have even done jail time for the crimes, yet they cannot be employed by certain companies/industries because they have shown, at one time a lack of good judgement.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’m sorry, but having been a repentant sinner myself I know that people can and do change. I’m glad I don’t have restrictions on my life because of the sins I’ve comitted against God and others. I remember something that Bishop Fulton Sheen once said when visiting a prison. He said “the only thing different between you and me is that you got caught!” When you think about it, we really all should be behind bars.

I’m not concerned about his sin here, I’m concerned about his crime, one in which there is a high rate of recidivism. There are legitimate questions about the type of counseling he got and how that might affect future behavior.

When I read posts like yours, I don’t see an acknowledgement of that. It’s all forgive and move on. However, there are real concerns and not just with the Duggars but in any institution that appears to blame the victims. The belief system the Duggars follow does just that.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m sorry, but having been a repentant sinner myself I know that people can and do change. I’m glad I don’t have restrictions on my life because of the sins I’ve comitted against God and others. I remember something that Bishop Fulton Sheen once said when visiting a prison. He said “the only thing different between you and me is that you got caught!” When you think about it, we really all should be behind bars.

I have never committed the crime of molesting children. I doubt Fulton Sheen would appreciate you using that comment in that context. The only difference between Josh and Sheen is that Josh got caught? Wow! I think you are missing the whole idea of forgiveness and the Catholic view of it.

There is an old Jewish Proverb that says “forgive but tie up your camel.” That is what most people are saying here. Forgive, but tie up your camel…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m sorry, but having been a repentant sinner myself I know that people can and do change. I’m glad I don’t have restrictions on my life because of the sins I’ve comitted against God and others. I remember something that Bishop Fulton Sheen once said when visiting a prison. He said “the only thing different between you and me is that you got caught!” When you think about it, we really all should be behind bars.

That quote is not attributed to Fulton Sheen, but to John Corapi.

Fulton Sheen did not live a life of crime to my knowledge.

John Corapi, on the other hand often spoke of his past life of crime.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I have never committed the crime of molesting children. I doubt Fulton Sheen would appreciate you using that comment in that context. The only difference between Josh and Sheen is that Josh got caught? Wow! I think you are missing the whole idea of forgiveness and the Catholic view of it.

There is an old Jewish Proverb that says “forgive but tie up your camel.” That is what most people are saying here. Forgive, but tie up your camel…

I don’t think he’d mind because I know what he meant. Basically there are few alive who have not comitted a mortal sin. All mortal sin merits hell without Jesus forgiveness. So in reality all who comit mortal sin merit “jail” (worse actually.) More crimes used to merit jail or a death sentence. If adultery were still a punishable crime half our nation would be in jail.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m not concerned about his sin here, I’m concerned about his crime, one in which there is a high rate of recidivism. There are legitimate questions about the type of counseling he got and how that might affect future behavior.

When I read posts like yours, I don’t see an acknowledgement of that. It’s all forgive and move on. However, there are real concerns and not just with the Duggars but in any institution that appears to blame the victims. The belief system the Duggars follow does just that.

Yes. There’s reason to believe that if counseling was done, it might have been of a very damaging type.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I’m not concerned about his sin here, I’m concerned about his crime, one in which there is a high rate of recidivism. There are legitimate questions about the type of counseling he got and how that might affect future behavior.

When I read posts like yours, I don’t see an acknowledgement of that. It’s all forgive and move on. However, there are real concerns and not just with the Duggars but in any institution that appears to blame the victims. The belief system the Duggars follow does just that.

I have no problem with follow up. Josh’s home and children could receive inspection. But to say that he should be taken away from his children (or his children taken from him) when there is no evidence that he has hurt them is not right.

As a teenage boy this exploratory offense would normally come out as pornography or fornication. Being a duggar he had access to neither so he sinned with what he had. That’s what I see this as.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I have no problem with follow up. Josh’s home and children could receive inspection. But to say that he should be taken away from his children (or his children taken from him) when there is no evidence that he has hurt them is not right.

As a teenage boy this exploratory offense would normally come out as pornography or fornication. Being a duggar he had access to neither so he sinned with what he had. That’s what I see this as.

Oh my gosh, I don’t agree with you at all. My son is 13, he has no access to porn or fornication, he would never molest a 5 year old!!

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t think he’d mind because I know what he meant. Basically there are few alive who have not comitted a mortal sin. All mortal sin merits hell without Jesus forgiveness. So in reality all who comit mortal sin merit “jail” (worse actually.) More crimes used to merit jail or a death sentence. If adultery were still a punishable crime half our nation would be in jail.

Here’s a post you may find helpful. It’s about sin-leveling:

calvinistjaneway.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/john-piper-rape-seduction-and-sin-leveling/

Some quotes:

"Unfortunately, the entire SBC denomination has a history of minimizing and denying rape, including, but not limited to:

1. Victim blaming. “What were you wearing? Why were you out so late? Why did you let yourself be alone with him? Did you seduce him?”
2. Sin-Leveling: “His sin AND yours both nailed Jesus to the cross—don’t forget that! If you refuse to forgive him, your sin is just as great as his.”
3. Magical Thinking: “Yes, he raped someone in the past, but his sins were washed away by Jesus, and he’s a new person, and he won’t do that anymore.”"

“I found out over time that my mother (that evil feminist) was the only person who thought [a rape-y Protestant deacon] should be removed from church leadership. The reasoning was, “After all, everyone sins. He has been forgiven, you know.””

“Sin-leveling usually doesn’t make a sinner more aware of their own depravity and Christ’s forgiveness. Instead, it elevates minor offenses to the level of a crime, and minimizes actual crimes to the level of gossip.”

“Paul said, “Expel the immoral brother from among you,” regarding the man who “had his father’s wife.” Yet, for Euodia and Syntyche, Paul “pleaded” with them to agree. Not all sins affect the body of Christ equally, and sin-leveling is not Biblical. Sins must be dealt with differently by the church, as part of pastoral care. Crimes must be dealt with by the proper authorities.”

(I should note that the Duggars are not Southern Baptists but Independent Baptists, so it’s not the same thing, but they are theological cousins.)

 

[Lou2U]

I have no problem with follow up. Josh’s home and children could receive inspection. But to say that he should be taken away from his children (or his children taken from him) when there is no evidence that he has hurt them is not right.

As a teenage boy this exploratory offense would normally come out as pornography or fornication. Being a duggar he had access to neither so he sinned with what he had. That’s what I see this as.

And what he had “access” to were his siblings and another young girl .

I really hope you’re not suggesting that if Josh could look at pornography or have sex, he would have not have molested.

As Mary Gail has said, plenty of boys who are the same age as Josh do not have access to pornography or sex, but would never molest anyone. What Josh did was not because he had nothing else to turn to.

Lou

 

[Convert_in_99]

That quote is not attributed to Fulton Sheen, but to John Corapi.

Fulton Sheen did not live a life of crime to my knowledge.

John Corapi, on the other hand often spoke of his past life of crime.

No it’s Sheen. Look it up. He said what he said for a reason. We are ally incredibly guilty before God and deserve far worse than prison. He said it in humility. It’s not unheard of because Jesus himself associated himself with the sinners.

 

[ucfengr]

Could you please stop trying to distract us from the main topic, which is the Duggars? Ok, Bill Clinton is a philandering scumbag, what else is new.

If you want to discuss media bias maybe you can start your own topic. In any case, FNC had almost no coverage about the Duggars until they landed their “exclusive”, so the bias cuts both ways. (I actually watch FNC at times myself, but I certainly am not in denial about what their slant on the news is.)

I don’t think gracepoole was referring to the media, anyway, though maybe Michael Reagan was. Since most of the Duggar support has not come from the mainstream media.

I think hanging out with a pedophile and going on trips with him to his private island of underaged girls is a bit more important than some teenaged kid copping a feel a decade ago, especially when that person is the husband of a potential President of the United States.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

No it’s Sheen. Look it up. He said what he said for a reason. We are ally incredibly guilty before God and deserve far worse than prison. He said it in humility. It’s not unheard of because Jesus himself associated himself with the sinners.

I’ve seen John Corapi speak.He claimed this quote as something he said at a prison when he visited.

Please provide the source please, of Fulton Sheen saying that quote. I cannot find it.

 

[LightBound]

I think hanging out with a pedophile and going on trips with him to his private island of underaged girls is a bit more important than some teenaged kid copping a feel a decade ago, especially when that person is the husband of a potential President of the United States.

Please start your own thread about this topic you keep bringing up. This thread is about the Duggar interview and derailing it is against forum etiquette.

He didn’t “cop a feel”, he repeatedly touched the breasts and public region of his 5 year-old sister, several other sisters that weren’t even teenagers yet, and another young girl. Quit minimizing this in an effort to promote your own post. Simply go start a new thread!!!