Dumb question: where are the Catholic 'liberals' in this forum?

[stellina]

Ah, I misunderstood - my mistake. It makes a big difference coming from someone who isn’t Catholic. You see, we have been through a lot lately with all of the attention focused on our papacy and the tidal wave of misinformation from the mass media and we are perhaps a little touchy, but you should understand that the same post coming from a Catholic would be interpreted differently, i.e. that it is from a dissenter or decidely un-orthodox Catholic. It seems that every news outlet has grabbed as many of these people as they can & given them a public forum to vent their spleens and presenting them as “experts” who represent the rest of us when they clearly do not, and basically most of us are really tired of it. However, if I may make a polite suggestion, if you had originally explained yourself the way you did here, it would have been easier to understand. It is a fair question.

 

[Listener]

I guess most of the people who post on this forum are very young. They don’t know how ridiculous they sound when they say that political liberals are heretics. I can remember back when John Kennedy was running for president. Back then, believe me, if you were Catholic it was more “normal” to vote for a democrat. Catholics believed in feeding the poor and having labor unions. Of course, back then, there was no abortion issue because abortion was illegal all over the country. The birth control pill was just getting started. When Kennedy was assasinated, I remember a married woman in my office talking about how her doctor had put her on “the pill.” Since it was so new, Catholics were hoping that the Pope would see the pill as a natural form of birth control. This thing about Catholics voting for conservative Republicans is a rather recent turn of events. I think it came about because of the pro-abortion platform of the Democratic party.

By the way, the Catholic Church is not a Cafeteria. The word “Catholic” means “universal.” As we can see from the Book of Revelation, persons of every nation, race, color and creed are invited to the banquet. Christ died for liberals, too, since they are members of the human race.

 

[pnewton]

liberal friend:

Sooooo…you’re tolerant of gay sex, abortion, and welfare payments…but you don’t do it yourself???

Is that how you are conservative in religion, but liberal in life???

How convienent for you!!!

Space Ghost, how’s the fishing?

I know of several charitalble and open liberals, but maybe I get out more than others. What I find to be very bigoted is stereotyping and demonizing large groups of people for any reason. That is not very “broad-minded.”

 

[amcalabrese]

Listener:

This thing about Catholics voting for conservative Republicans is a rather recent turn of events. I think it came about because of the pro-abortion platform of the Democratic party.

Mostly, it was because issues and times change. My father was a Catholic and with the exception of JFK (which to his dying day he claimed he never voted for) and a handful of local races where the Republican was either extremely corrupt or named John Lindsey, he always voted Republican. As did his parents.

But you are right, the Catholic Church in the north East at least used to be known as “the Democratic party at prayer.” Partly is was because Catholics were a poor minority, and before the communist threat, we were seen as a threat to the American way of life. So we tended to vote Democratic.

I tend to vote Repiblican mostly because (i) my Catholicism made my family very anti-Communist (my parents used to write to theire cousins in Italy begging them not to vote Communist) and much of that rubbed off on me (and to me, the current Islamacist trheat is nothing more than the new version of facsism/bolshevism, with a religious face) and (ii) for economic reasons. I am what the Europeans might call a neo-liberal and here in the US a libertarian when it comes to economics.

 

[buffalo]

The Democratic Party (liberals) have moved to embrace the Culture of Death. This is not the party of the sixties. It still has a few of the components of the sixties that they are getting constituent mileage from (because of sympathy), but it is now the party of death.

 

[Richardols]

buffalo:

The Democratic Party (liberals) have moved to embrace the Culture of Death. This is not the party of the sixties. It still has a few of the components of the sixties that they are getting constituent mileage from (because of sympathy), but it is now the party of death.

But, not for all Democrats (or all liberals, for that matter). Similarly to some Catholic Republicans who don’t like that their party endorses the death penalty, some of us Catholic Democrats don’t buy into the pro-choice position of the current leadership of our party.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

But, not for all Democrats (or all liberals, for that matter). Similarly to some Catholic Republicans who don’t like that their party endorses the death penalty, some of us Catholic Democrats don’t buy into the pro-choice position of the current leadership of our party.

No, all of you don’t. However, I must ask how can you stay a member of a party that embraces the pro-death culture? If it is indeed a priority to you than you can choose to leave the party temporarily and make a difference. When a pro-life culture is a centerpiece of America you can always go back to the party, which will definitely have changed by then.

 

[amcalabrese]

buffalo:

No, all of you don’t. However, I must ask how can you stay a member of a party that embraces the pro-death culture? If it is indeed a priority to you than you can choose to leave the party temporarily and make a difference. When a pro-life culture is a centerpiece of America you can always go back to the party, which will definitely have changed by then.

Well, the GOP tends to support the invasion of Iraq. Pope John Paul II condemned it. The GOP tends to support the death penalty, Pope John Paul II condemned it.

Stop trying to politicize God.

(And I say this as a self-described conservative Republican)

 

[Richardols]

buffalo:

No, all of you don’t. However, I must ask how can you stay a member of a party that embraces the pro-death culture? If it is indeed a priority to you than you can choose to leave the party temporarily and make a difference. When a pro-life culture is a centerpiece of America you can always go back to the party, which will definitely have changed by then.

I see no reason to abandon the party to those who support abortion. Besides, where would I go?

 

[buffalo]

amcalabrese:

Well, the GOP tends to support the invasion of Iraq. Pope John Paul II condemned it. The GOP tends to support the death penalty, Pope John Paul II condemned it.

Stop trying to politicize God.

(And I say this as a self-described conservative Republican)

Not exactly. JPII was against it but accepted prudential judgement as consistent with Catholic teaching on just war theory. JPII did not condemn the death penalty as this too is part of Catholic teaching on self defense. What he did was to enhance the teaching to today’s ability of wealthy countries to incarcerate threats to society.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

I see no reason to abandon the party to those who support abortion. Besides, where would I go?

Temporarily leave the Democratic roles and join a Pro-life party of your choosing. You can vote anyway you wish in the voting booth. But giving implicit support to the party of death only gives them more clout.

 

[space_ghost]

Space Ghost, how’s the fishing?

can be very dangerous depending which thread your swimming in:thumbsup:
http://barn.svcb.co.uk/images/great_white_shark.jpg

 

[Richardols]

buffalo:

Not exactly. JPII was against it but accepted prudential judgement as consistent with Catholic teaching on just war theory.

But, what did Benedict XV do when he was asked to bless Italian soldiers going to war in 1914? He refused, saying, “I bless peace, not war.”

How much greater John Paul II would have been, if he told that to Bush!

 

[Richardols]

buffalo:

Temporarily leave the Democratic roles and join a Pro-life party of your choosing. You can vote anyway you wish in the voting booth. But giving implicit support to the party of death only gives them more clout.

Your opinion would be sound, but that the only totally “pro-life” party, the Constitutionalist Party, is more than a little crazy on other issues. Besides, it has no clout whatsoever.

I’ll just continue as a member of “Democrats for Life,” vote for pro-life Democrats as I can, and wait until things turn around.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

But, what did Benedict XV do when he was asked to bless Italian soldiers going to war in 1914? He refused, saying, “I bless peace, not war.”

How much greater John Paul II would have been, if he told that to Bush!

He may have - Bush didn’t look to happy at that meeting.

Now why exactly were the Italians marching off to war in 1914? Might that have something to do with it? Further, as Chief Shepherd of the Church I would not find too many Popes in favor of war. It is an excellent standard to be kept and the reason for just war theory.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

Your opinion would be sound, but that the only totally “pro-life” party, the Constitutionalist Party, is more than a little crazy on other issues. Besides, it has no clout whatsoever.

I’ll just continue as a member of “Democrats for Life,” vote for pro-life Democrats as I can, and wait until things turn around.

The Democratic Party will only turn faster if it loses its base. As long as they have you in the base they have power to advance the culture of death. Remember, if you were a member of a third party you still can cross party lines in the election. It’s fairly obvious their continued direction by supporting Kerry and Clinton.

 

[Richardols]

buffalo:

He may have - Bush didn’t look to happy at that meeting.

Sadly, Benedict’s admonition to the Allies weren’t heeded, and if JPII said the same to Bush, it wasn’t heeded either.

It is an excellent standard to be kept and the reason for just war theory.

Yes, but neither World War I nor Iraq II seemed to have turned out to be just wars, even if they may have seemed to be such to some people at the beginning.

 

[bones_IV]

AntonV:

I have seen a couple “Liberal” Catholics and one atheist. The atheist got banned because:

1.   His screen name was an Aztec god that demanded infant sacrifice (not cool and even offensive).

2.   2) He would never answer the other posts questions and kept putting out his "elitist intellectual" dribble.

The "Liberal Catholic” would never answer any questions and just spouted a secular world view with no back up in reality even after several of the “orthodox” poster had shown him that he was wrong.

You can’t have a debate/discussion if one side doesn’t respond.

My $.02 worth.

Anton

I agree, liberal catholics on here are so clueless they really need to take a hint.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

Sadly, Benedict’s admonition to the Allies weren’t heeded, and if JPII said the same to Bush, it wasn’t heeded either.

Yes, but neither World War I nor Iraq II seemed to have turned out to be just wars, even if they may have seemed to be such to some people at the beginning.

Monday morning quarterbacking is great, eh. It’s too bad we don’t have crystal balls, then we would never make mistakes only choices.

 

[Richardols]

bones_IV:

I agree, liberal catholics on here are so clueless they really need to take a hint.

We’re blessed to have such meaningful and well thought-out conservative Catholic commentary on this Forum. And cliche-free, too!