Duquesne University punishes student for online post against homosexuality

[Hildebrand]

The gay group is trying to spin homosexuals = homosexuality when they are not the same. The former are the people with the disorder and the later are the acts themselves.

The student said “homosexuality” is subhuman. It is less harsh than the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Chastity and homosexuality

[2357](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’) Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity

Homosexuality is more than just below humans (subhuman), the Church says it is grave depravity.

 

[Hildebrand]

HappyCatholic01:

The difference is, “not being charitable” is not a crime. It may not be a Catholic way to live, but it isn’t illegal.

How is it uncharitable to call homosexuality “subhuman”?

Wouldn’t we all agree that dogs sniffing other animals’ feces is subhuman? It is ok for dogs, but not for us humans. What if we saw people constantly going from animal droppings to animal droppings and put their nose in it?

There are acts humans can commit that are beneath human dignity. Is it acceptable to call some of those acts subhuman or should we throw people out of “Catholic” universities for opening their mouth?

Compare the dogs sniffing and homosexuality. The former is… well… very strange if humans do it and below us. The later is grave depravity, worse than subhuman.
definition of subhuman

adj 1: less than human or not worthy of a human being; “treated natives as subhuman”; “a subhuman spectacle”; “the subhuman primates” 2: unfit for human beings; “subhuman conditions of life”

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Digitonomy:

. . .Cite?

It is a 15 or 20 year old news story. I have no idea where to find it now.

Georgetown allowed a homosexual group to found a student club. Alumni protested - i.e. cut funding - and Georgetown reversed itself. It was then sued by the homosexual group and lost on the grounds that it could not demonstrate Catholic belief in its operation. Of course Georgetown didn’t bother appeal the ruling . They can tell their alumni that the court made them do it [brings to mind Flip Wilson’s Geraldine.]

 

[Traditional_Ang]

JOHNYJ:

If it wasn’t the schools computer .Than its a civil Rights matter and the school is violating the students rights he should complain to the state. Try to find a civil Rights lawyerthat will help him sue the school.

JOHNY:

Scripture and the Teaching of the Church are clear enough about the Homosexual Lifestyle being disordered and about how the act seperates those who do it from God and His grace and Love.

Ryan Miner could very easily have written a paper on that, citing the ECF and the Rabbinical Literature about how the Hebrew term Translated as “Abomination” in the Torah refers to acts which seperate people from by their very nature. He also could have used the present Aquinas, other Doctors of the Church and the Catechism to cemment his point and had an effective 10 page paper.

Instead he decided to post something which used the same language the Nazis used to justify the mass slaughter of Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Roma, Catholics, Freemasons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Gays and others.

It’s because of that that I suggest the following compromise deal:

Mr. Miner should be assigned to write a thorough paper on the Holocaust and the events leading up to it. He should also have to view all the films, German and Allied, taken of the atrocies commited to those the Germans labeled, “Subhuman”.

Since Duquesne University doesn’t seem to understand why any organization encouraging or defending the “Gay Lifestyle” is inappropriate for any Catholic college or university, Duquesne University should lose it’s license to teach Catholic Theology until such time as they can demonstrate a working knowledge of the social implications of Catholic moral theology.

I base this on:

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
ON CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_15081990_ex-corde-ecclesiae_en.html

Ryan Miner needs to learn that we are all SINNERS, but that NONE are “SUBHUMAN”. At the same time, Duquesne University needs to learn that the Church, and the Universities attached to it and teaching in its name, are all parts of a hospital for SINNERS, NOT places where SINNERS get to hear that what they’re doing is OK and isn’t SINFUL!

Both, therefore, have to be disciplined and shouldn’t be involved in the other’s discipline (means a third party organization - The Bishop - will have to administer the discipline for BOTH parties).

Who’s going to contact the bishop? or, Where’s his contact information? Because, if this works, this can get yanked right out of the courts next week.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Joe Kelley:

It is a 15 or 20 year old news story. I have no idea where to find it now.

Georgetown allowed a homosexual group to found a student club. Alumni protested - i.e. cut funding - and Georgetown reversed itself. It was then sued by the homosexual group and lost on the grounds that it could not demonstrate Catholic belief in its operation. Of course Georgetown didn’t bother appeal the ruling . They can tell their alumni that the court made them do it [brings to mind Flip Wilson’s Geraldine.]

Joe:

I hope the Alumni still cut the funding because Georgetown didn’t appeal the ruling. The fact is, as a private organization, Georgetown probably would have won on appeal.

I think it’s completely fair for alumni who are contributing lots of money to demand that Colleges and Universities pursue ALL legal grounds BEFORE doing anything that’s against the Law of God, and that includes promoting the “Gay Lifestyle”.

I mean, it’s one thing to do as the Court orders when you’ve exhausted the appeals, another when you’ve done nothing.

I hope their Alumni were thinking like that, too, and that Georgetown found that using the Court as cover was an expensive proposition.

In Christ, Michael

 

[CARose]

This was brought up on another thread earlier. You may want to take a look at this article to get another slant to the issue.

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05102804.html

CARose

 

[Lurch104]

CARose:

This was brought up on another thread earlier. You may want to take a look at this article to get another slant to the issue.

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05102804.html

CARose

WOW!! That is even more depressing. I think I send a letter in the morning (a bit sleepy at the moment). I guess we now know that Dusquesne is not a Catholic school. I only wish the Church could somehow censor this university. A good start would be to remove all priests and religious from the campus in protest.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

CARose:

This was brought up on another thread earlier. You may want to take a look at this article to get another slant to the issue.

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05102804.html

CARose

CARose:

Thank you - It sounds as if we need to see the orginal paper to judge for ourselves.

I think it’s lovely how the University chose to uphold it’s values by not allowing Miner to confront his accusers or to know who was judging him and on what grounds.

I think my remedy is still the best, as it would serve to remove any chance that Mr. Minor misunderstands the word, “Subhuman” can’t even enter the conversation.

At the same time, The way the University handled this, by refusing to allow Mr. Minor to confront his accusers or to know the names of those judging him, and by refusing to even consider the Catechism of the Church as possible exculpation, only confims my view that Duquesne needs to lose its license to teach Catholic Theology if it hasn’t already lost it.

Does anyone have the information on the Bishop of Pittsburgh? I think he needs to get involved since Ryan Miner is still a faithful Catholic and hasn’t been chased out of the Church yet by the likes of the bureaucrats at Duquesne.

The Catholic Church needs people like him, provided they learn from their mistakes.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Lurch104:

WOW!! That is even more depressing. I think I send a letter in the morning (a bit sleepy at the moment). I guess we now know that Dusquesne is not a Catholic school. I only wish the Church could somehow censor this university. A good start would be to remove all priests and religious from the campus in protest.

Lurch:

We need to get hold of the Bishop and get their license to teach Catholic Doctrrine pulled as per Ex Corde Ecclesiae!

So, as I said earlier, we need the contact information on Duquesne University’s Bishop and Archbishop!

I’d look it up, but I don’t know the name of the Archdiocese… So, we need some help from our fellow posters…

And, I’ve “assigned” something for Ryan Miner to do which, I believe, will keep him from using the word “Subhuman” to describe his fellow humans and their activities again.

But th more I read about the Duquesne, the more I believe i’m looking at a Catholic University that wants to be Secular.Univrsity like SUSC or UCLA.

Maybe we should let them have their wish.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

harinkj:

Wake up folks.

The university is Catholic, not public. It is their preogative to discipline as they see fit, whether the act is on campus or across the world. There are no first amendment rights at a private school.

• Kathie :bowdown:

harinkj:

If it’s a Catholic school, then it’s bound by Ex Corde Ecclesiae…

What was a group doing which promotes and defends the “Gay Lifestyle” as “being normal” doing at a CATHOLIC SCHOOL? :banghead:

Here’s the “Due Process” Afforded Ryan Miner:

Catholic University Threatening to Expel Student for Calling Homosexual Acts 'Subhuman’

*After reading the comments on the site, four students found them offensive and brought them to the attention of the university judicial affairs department.

After Miner was sent a letter notifying him of the complaints a hearing was held by three faculty members and two student representatives. Miner was refused the names of the university faculty judging him.

Miner was found guilty of offending the university’s anti-discrimination policy which prohibits discrimination based on “sexual orientation” among other things. Miner told LifeSiteNews.com that he explained at the hearing that his use of the word ‘subhuman’ was meant towards the homosexual act and not homosexual persons. Moreover, Miner read the Catholic Catechism in his defence as the Catechism refers to homosexual acts as, “acts as acts of grave depravity”, “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to the natural law.” His was nonetheless found guilty of the charges.*

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05102804.html

He was never allowed to confront his accusers or given the names of those sitting on judgment.

What values were being taught and expressed there?

NOT Catholic ones, unless you want to say the Star Chamber was a Catholic Institution!

And, what does this convey (Same Link):
LifeSiteNews.com contacted Duquesne officials seeking comment, but no calls were returned.

I thought if you do the right thing, you don’t need to hide it.

The student is guilty for using bad words in trying to keep the school from violating its mandate. Which is worse, Using bad words while trying to correct a real wrong (I hate the word “subhuman” - look at my posts on the issue)? or, A Catholic University participating in teaching the students intrusted to it that the “Gay Lifestyle” is NOT sinful and won’t seperate you from God or from HIs mercy, Grace and Love?

Which one do you think is the most dangerous to the long-term spiritual welfare of the students? and, Which one is a violation of Ex Corde Ecclesiae?

I could be wrong, but I think Duquesne University should lose its license to teach Catholic Theology.

In Christ, Michael

 

[harinkj]

Traditional Ang:

After reading the comments on the site, four students found them offensive and brought them to the attention of the university judicial affairs department.

What exactly are these comments the guy posted?

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[bones_IV]

I think I must agree with Hildebrand, in that the act of homosexuality is subhuman.

 

[harinkj]

bones_IV:

I think I must agree with Hildebrand, in that the act of homosexuality is subhuman.

And your mortal sins are somehow not subhuman? Or are you above sinning? :bigyikes:

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[bones_IV]

harinkj:

And your mortal sins are somehow not subhuman? Or are you above sinning? :bigyikes:

• Kathie :bowdown:

Huh? Didn’t say any of those things.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Traditional Ang:

Lurch:

We need to get hold of the Bishop and get their license to teach Catholic Doctrrine pulled as per Ex Corde Ecclesiae!

. . .

Do we have any reason to believe that he has given them one. The U.S. bishops have not shown much courage in applying Ex Corde Ecclesiae. Most seem to hope that if they ignore it it will go away.

 

[harinkj]

bones_IV:

Huh? Didn’t say any of those things.

I’ll connect the dots for you then. You said that you agreed with the statement that homosexuality was subhuman. Isn’t there something in the Bible about only those without sin casting the first stone. Doesn’t this mean that we really need to pay attention to our own sins rather than expending energy ciriticizing others and their sins. As I recall from the Baltimore Catechism, there were two classes of sins, venial and mortal. By classifying homosexuality as a “subhuman” sin one wonders if you consider your own mortal sins subhuman also? Or not? If not, why are you placing yourself above the homosexual sinner? :tsktsk:

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[bones_IV]

harinkj:

I’ll connect the dots for you then. You said that you agreed with the statement that homosexuality was subhuman. Isn’t there something in the Bible about only those without sin casting the first stone. Doesn’t this mean that we really need to pay attention to our own sins rather than expending energy ciriticizing others and their sins. As I recall from the Baltimore Catechism, there were two classes of sins, venial and mortal. By classifying homosexuality as a “subhuman” sin one wonders if you consider your own mortal sins subhuman also? Or not? If not, why are you placing yourself above the homosexual sinner? :tsktsk:

• Kathie :bowdown:

I didn’t.

 

[stellina]

ByzCath:

While I do not think a “Gay-Straight Alliance” group is something that should be at a Catholic University nor do I think any University has any business policing things that are out side of thier control this student, Ryan, needs to learn more about what the Catholic Church teaches as no where does the Church teach that homosexuality is “subhuman”, what ever that is.

Also this student needs to learn a bit about charitable behavior.

You make a good point. I am also in the Pittsburgh area and I have several friends who work at Duquesne, so I know a little more about the situation than most. In fact, Duquesne just posted some kind of clarification on their website, and I would recommend that to anyone who’s interested in the matter. The local paper, the Post-Gazette, had an item as well & surely that’s online too, but I will caution that they aren’t always impartial.

Apparently there is some sort of blog website out there (I’m really backward when it comes to technology) and there has been a general issue about students using it, especially from university computers. If something offensive originates from one of their computers, they are within their rights to discipline the student. My friends tell me that there is a constant problem with students accessing porn websites on campus computers, so they are always on guard. Again, I’m no computer expert, but I would think it’s fairly easy within a network to p(name removed by moderator)oint which computer was used for something.

Now, back to the issue of homosexual associations at Duquesne: this has been a touchy subject for the past several months since a gay group tried to organize on campus, i.e. as an officialy sanctioned group, and were denied. Pittsburgh is a decent-sized city & so has an increasingly vocal homosexual population, and therefore this ensued in a lot of bad press for Duquesne. It would be one thing if all they had to worry about was public opinion, but unfortunately several of the national accrediting bodies for certain schools within the university, for example the American Bar Association which accredits the law school, insist on “diversity” and pressure all colleges and universities to have such student organizations on campus. So far, there haven’t been any cases of an accrediting body withdrawing credentials from a Catholic school for refusing to establish gay student groups, but I fear this is only a matter of time. Accreditation is a very serious matter because without it, graduates are barred from certain professions and the university loses not only credibility but value, i.e. a degree from such a place is essentially worthless.

As a result of all this, one of the Holy Ghost Fathers is supposedly trying to organize some kind of gay/straight “alliance”, perhaps in an attempt to diffuse the situation. However, because Pittsburgh is pretty much a conservative diocese, rumor is that the bishop is none too happy about it. While he has no direct authority over the university, if he believes that the Spiritans are permitting or encouraging dissent from Catholic teaching within his diocese, he could have them expelled (someone told me this is provided for in the Code of Canon Law, but I don’t know). Also, the local seminary sends its students there for their theology degrees and surely he has some influence there, i.e. ensuring that his seminarians are going to an orthodox institution. On top of this, the bishop was ousted from the board of directors not too long ago, so it would be safe to assume that he isn’t the biggest fan of Duquesne.

I’m also an alumnus and I can tell you that many of the Spiritans are liberal in a lot of matters & have become much more so since I was in school. It’s kind of ironic because they’re a missionary order and many of their African priests and seminarians come to Duquesne to study, and the Africans are extremely orthodox and tradition-minded. Some of my friends work in various administrative positions and come into contact with a lot of students, and apparently there is a strong orthodox element there too, although it is countered by the baby boomer children who are pushing a lot of liberal matters. While I certainly don’t condone a lack of charity, especially when the Church teaches otherwise in this specific situation, it doesn’t surprise me that a student would express himself this way. I fear that a lot of conflict is in the works & it is heading into a bad situation.

 

[estesbob]

harinkj:

Wake up folks. :bounce:

The university is Catholic, not public. :banghead: It is their preogative to discipline as they see fit, whether the act is on campus or across the world. There are no first amendment rights at a private school.

• Kathie :bowdown:

You are missing the point-the fact the University claims to Catholic is what has so many of us upset. I am troubled by his use of the term “subhuman” but am more troubled tht a Caholic University condones homosexual behaior. This school is puting the souls of it homosexual students at risk-they are condoning grievous sin. If the homosexual student is not exposed to the TRUTH about their behavior at a Catholic University they are being encouraged to continue a behavior that alienates them from God-a far more serious problem than beng called “subhuman”

 

[Traditional_Ang]

harinkj:

What exactly are these comments the guy posted?

• Kathie :bowdown:

Kathie:

These comments from the students at Ohio State:

Anti-gay speech
University has no jurisdiction

*In effect, Duquense University is suppressing its students’ right to free speech by claiming that any inflammatory comments that a few disagree with give just cause and jurisdiction for the university to sanction ideas in the name of the community. The university has gone too far in protecting its students.

Duquense is wrong to suppress opinion in an open, off-campus forum such as facebook.com. Although some reserve the right to condone Miner’s views, the university should be protecting him from those upset with what he has to say, not silencing him.*

thelantern.com/media/paper333/news/2005/10/28/Opinion/AntiGay.Speech-1037900.shtml

He didn’t call them “Subhuman” - He called their activity “Subhuman”.

Ryan Miner Calls Homosexual Behavior ‘Subhuman’

A complaint was filed against Ryan Miner, a sophomore at Duquesne University, when he called homosexual behavior (he claims he was strictly speaking about actions and not about people) “subhuman” on his profile at Facebook.com. Duquesne University’s Judicial Affairs panel found Miner in violation of the school’s university code of conduct and ordered him to take the offensive comment off of his profile at Facebook and write a 10-page paper on homosexuality in the Catholic church. The comment has been removed from his Facebook profile, but Miner refuses to write the paper.

rsscache.com/Section/Stats/more/20011.aspx
dailydoseofqueer.com/2005/10/28/ryan-miner-calls-homosexual-behavior-subhuman/

Catholic Institutions- what’s the point?
myheartsrevolution.blogspot.com/2005/10/catholic-institutions-whats-point.html

And one from CARose:

Duquesne University Politically Correct FLAP: The Facebook Censorship

*I agree with your conclusion that Ryan should not write the paper, but I am disturbed by the fact that the schools paper has misrepresented what Ryan posted on Facebook in the first place, and this subtle yet very significant distinction seems to have been missed by many who are commenting on this situation, both here and at the school.

From what I understand, as a quote of Ryan states, his post was that the homosexual ACT is subhuman, NOT that the homosexual person is subhuman. This is consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church, of which Ryan is a member, and with which the school is supposedly associated. A depraved act does not lessen the intrinsic value of the person, but the person has reduced themselves in terms of their holiness. We each have different paths that we walk in the course of our lives, some are more difficult than others. If the homosexual orientation is in fact innate in the person, if they are truly born with a preference for the same gender, then who could deny that they have a tougher life as a result. Yet this does not change the fact that we all are required to learn self control against inappropriate impulses. And yes, I do consider homosexuality to be based on inappropriate impulses which are best not explored and reinforced.

Ryan merely affirmed what the Catholic Church teaches, even if, in his youth, he chose to use an explosive term which has resulted in much controversy and difficulties for him.

I wish him well in his endeavor, and I’m glad to see you support him and encourage him to not give in to undue pressure.

God bless,

CARose

Comment by CARose — October 29, 2005 @ 11:57 am*

I was not able to find the original post on FACEBOOK, which requires that you be a student at a supported institution to be registered, If you want to try, Here’s the Website: facebook.com/

As I said previously, I would assign Ryan Miner the paper and films previously described, because of the history of the word “Subhuman”, and I would seek to have Duguesne’s license to teach Catholic Theology revoked per De Corde Ecclesiae.

He used a word he shouldn’t have while trying to keep a Catholic University from participating in promoting the Gay Agenda. That he was trying to stop a real problem has to be addressed. That the University refuses to acknowledge that problem and seems to call expressing the Catholic teaching on any act of sex between two men or two women offensive, inflammatory and a violation of the university’s code of conduct is a far greater problem than anything Miner said.

In Christ, Michael