Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

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TonyBS said:
Muhammad appointed Imam Ali as the First Successor, thus it is Shia that is the rightful line of Succession.

If you read the Book of Revelation it was foretold that the rejection of this succession resulted in the Faith of Muhammad being one of Negation instead of Affirmation. It is foretold also by Muhammad in this passage “There is no God, but God” which is said by all Muslims. It is the Negative before the Affirmation.

Ali was very young and of course all those that had influence and thought better then Muhammad chose not to follow this appointed youth but those with pride.

Regards Tony
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Tony,The sunnis believe that muhammad had no rightful heir and that a religious leader should be elected through a vote among the islamic community’s people. They believe that muhammad’s followers chose abu bakr, muhammad’s close friend and advisor, as his successor.

So which one is right sunni or shia? Is there historical documentation stating such facts?

Which sect of islam should people follow?
 
Tony you see my point. I read your last post on the thread that was closed. This is why historians are so important. Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus. Even modern historians say Jesus was crucified. In Islam Mohammed is the greatest of all prophets yet killed a lot of people. Jesus killed no one. Jesus performed miracles. When questioned why he didn’t Mohammed said he was just a Warner. His miracle was the Koran. Impressive though it is, it’s denial of Jesus’s resurrection and several church doctrines can make it suspect. But then again it is a rival religion.
 
TonyBS said:
I will reply to that comment as it shows lack of understanding of why the law of those times would allow this to be so. I will not post as to why, as I will let fair minded people search that for themselves.

God bless all with Fair Mindness.

Regards to all Tony
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Was it God that allowed three wives? Or was it the pagan tribal custom “of those times”?

If it was God, did He rescind the “law”?
 
Servant19 said:
The earliest Shiah and Sunni source combined dear gmc is the Holy Quran.

One doesn’t need to be a Muslim and know how Muhammad grew His beard. The true Muslim only needs the Quran and the hadiths that conform 100% with it, and nothing else.

.
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Which hadiths do you mean? All of them? I understand that there are thousands of them, not counting the ones that got deleted or rejected.
 
MartinJordan said:
The God that allows 3 wives? No thanks.

MJ
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MJ. There were more than three wives, according to Bukhari. There were eleven.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:
Narrated by Qatada
Anas bin Malik said, “The Prophet used to have sexual intercourse with all his wives one after the other during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?” Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).” And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).
 
JimmyDFG said:
This does not answer my question Servant. In Islamic terms how and when did Jesus die a natural human death?

Quran 5:75
The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

Quran 19:33
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

Quran 4:157
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
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There is no specific moment where the Quran states that Jesus died His natural death.

All I know of is that He did die a natural death, according to this verse:

"O Jesus, I will cause you to die, and exalt you to My presence, and clear you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the day of Judgment." (3:54)

.
 
gmcbroom said:
Servant,
So the Koran is a historian? If memory recalls Mohammed is only mentioned 4 times in the Koran. How does anyone know what he looks like our how he acts? It sounds trivial but people have died over this. Those who chronicle his life influence those that follow and live the faith.hence my question. Was the first historian Shia or Sunni? If Sunni then we have an account of Mohammed in accord with those who first ran across Muslims both good as discussed by the poster HolyCrusader or not so good as accounted by St. John damascene.
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No, God is the historian.
The Quran is His history Book (as well as other things)

.
 
Ontheway said:
Was it God that allowed three wives? Or was it the pagan tribal custom “of those times”?

If it was God, did He rescind the “law”?
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There is no law in Islam that one should/must marry more than one wife. It’s quite the opposite in fact.

.
 
Servant19 said:
There is no specific moment where the Quran states that Jesus died His natural death.

All I know of is that He did die a natural death, according to this verse:

"O Jesus, I will cause you to die, and exalt you to My presence, and clear you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the day of Judgment." (3:54)

.
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So then muslim don’t believe the crucifixion happen to Jesus at all…and you a Baha’i as well.
“All I know of is that He did die a natural death” crucifixion is not a “natural death”
 
Servant19 said:
There is no law in Islam that one should/must marry more than one wife. It’s quite the opposite in fact.

.
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Quran 4:3 If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four.
 
Servant I understand where your coming from. However as God is perfect I don’t think he would have allowed his Koran to be corrupted by Satan. I.e. No satanic verses. So I understand your view but I don’t believe he wrote it.
 
Servant19 said:
There is no law in Islam that one should/must marry more than one wife. It’s quite the opposite in fact.

.
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So for fifteen centuries generations of Muslim men have been ignoring the Koran in this respect?
 
JimmyDFG said:
So then muslim don’t believe the crucifixion happen to Jesus at all…and you a Baha’i as well.
“All I know of is that He did die a natural death” crucifixion is not a “natural death”
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Yes, but that’s not the perspective of creation that the Quran is presenting. Why do you insist on just seeing this from your perspective only?

.
 
Ontheway said:
MJ. There were more than three wives, according to Bukhari. There were eleven.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:
Narrated by Qatada
Anas bin Malik said, “The Prophet used to have sexual intercourse with all his wives one after the other during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?” Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).” And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).
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Thanks Ontheway. I’m aware of this however my focus was on Baha’u’llah He had 3 wives. He forgot Jesus and followed customs of his own land. Odd for who is the 2nd coming of Christ! :eek:

MJ
 
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