Easter

[Church_Militant]

None of the scriptures you referenced say he rose on the first day of the week. Do they? In fact they all say he had already risen by the time they arrived.

No scriptures about Our Blessed Lord Jesus rising on Sunday? I beg to differ with you on that.

Mark 16:9
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.

Luke 24:1
And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.

John 20:1
And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

 

[adrift]

None of the scriptures you referenced say he rose on the first day of the week. Do they? In fact they all say he had already risen by the time they arrived.

You have provided nothing that would even suggest that He rose on the Sabbath.

When did He die?

Matthew

62 Now on the morrow, which is the day after the Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees were gathered together unto Pilate,Mark
42 And when even was now come, because it was the Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Luke
54 And it was the day of the Preparation, and the sabbath drew on
John
42 There then because of the Jews’ Preparation (for the tomb was nigh at hand) they laid Jesus.

All says the same thing, Jesus died the day before Preparation day which was the day before Sabbath. Sabbath began at Sundown the Day Jesus Died. I believe He died at the same time the priest were slaughtering the lambs in the temple.

 

[patrick457]

I’ll play the role of Devil’s Advocate a bit and point out how the phrase usually translated as “the first day of the week” is in Greek, mian sabbaton/mia ton sabbaton “the first of (the) sabbaths.” I’m pretty sure (or at least I hope) you guys have done your homework on this one.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

None of the scriptures you referenced say he rose on the first day of the week. Do they? In fact they all say he had already risen by the time they arrived.

Then how come in the book of Acts do His followers gather “on the first day of the week, the Lord’s Day” to “break bread”? I guess they didn’t know how to interepret the old testatment, either?, and just foolishly believed that since Sunday is the day they first saw Him after the crucifixion, that was the day He rose. But they were wrong?

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[Nita]

Following scripture:

Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (19:31)

.

The very Scripture passage from John’s gospel that you cite shows clearly that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. They asked to have His body before the Sabbath (Saturday) began.
Or do you maintain Jesus’ dead body hung on the cross for 2-3 days before it was taken down?

 

[Goya]

He rose on Saturday, three days and three nights after he was killed. You need to study all of scripture for the clear picture and to fully understand who Jesus was and what was sacrificed on Passover.

That’s your interpretation. Here is what some of the actual folks who actually followed Yeshua, past down through Tradition, to their successors/disciples/followers, that Christ died on what we know as a “Friday”–and that he rose again on what we know as a “Sunday” --(just as they past down the very scripture you are pretending to know better than they):

The Didache

“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch

“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death*” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr

“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

The Didascalia

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week * our Lord rose from the place of the dead*, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen

“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus

“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

Eusebius of Caesarea

“T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality” (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).

Athanasius

“The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation” (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).

So basically, scripture notwithstanding, the issue would be just as easily resolved as this:

Church Fathers > random protestant with a chip on his shoulders.

Happy Easter SUNDAY to you, sir!

 

[Goya]

btw:

Why would it matter if the Church observes the Resurrection on a Sunday, or Tuesday, or Thursday… whatever day the Church would chose to observe it, would be “the Lord’s Day”.

The Nativity (Christmas) is observed on an arbitrary, unbilblical date. What difference does it make?

Just a thought.

 

[EricFilmer]

Why does the Catholic Church still teach that Jesus was killed on a Friday? (Edited)

Others have already demonstrated in this thread that Scripture backs up the resurrection happening on a Sunday. As a side note, I think it would be helpful to consider all the non-Catholic Christians who also embrace the belief in the Sunday resurrection…

All the various Eastern Orthodox Churches have historically taught that Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday. For example:

The early Church rejoiced in the event of the Resurrection. The new and principal day of worship of the Christians was the first day of the Jewish week, i.e., the day in which the Lord was raised from the dead. They assembled on that day to celebrate the Eucharist, through which they proclaimed the Lord’s death and confessed his resurrection. Eventually they gave this day a Christian name, the Day of the Lord, Kiriaki Hmera (Rev 1:10).

• Rev. Alciviadis C. Calivas, Th.D (The Origins of Pascha and Great Week)

All the various Oriental Orthodox Churches have historically taught that Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday. For example:

According to Christian tradition, Jesus died at the ninth hour (that is, the canonical hour of nona—3:00 pm) of the first full day of Pesach, when that day fell on a Friday; and arose from the dead at or by the first (canonical) hour of the next Sunday.

• Coptic Calendar

All the various Protestant denominations have historically taught that Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday. For example:

The first day of the week is the Lord’s Day. It commemorates the resurrection of Christ from the dead and should be employed in exercises of worship and spiritual devotion.

• Southern Baptist Convention: Basic Beliefs

To the best of my knowledge, the only ones who reject the belief that Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday are a small number of fringe Christian groups that emerged in modern times. This demonstrates that the teaching of the Sunday resurrection is apostolic in origin.

But for the sake of argument, let us say for a moment that the teaching of the Sunday resurrection is not correct, and that it is not apostolic in origin. In this case, it would be a tradition created by man. It would have started in the ancient world by a single person who would have had to get everyone else in his church to go along with it. And then that church would have had to convince all the other ancient Christian churches spread our over three continents to go along with it as well. And all of this would have had to happen without this belief being contested even once within an ecumenical council or by one of the Early Church Fathers.

Moreover, when the Protestant Reformers (many of whom believed in Sola Scriptura) examined the various teachings of the Catholic Church with a critical eye, they would have had to decide, for some reason, to go along with this particular man-made doctrine and declare it valid.

Conclusion: The clearest and simplest explanation as to why belief in the Sunday resurrection is historical and universal is because it is apostolic and scripturally sound. Any other explanation requires a conspiracy theory that boggles the imagination.

 

[Nita]

After two days it was the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Him by trickery and put Him to death. (Mark 14:1)

The high day was the beginning of the Feast of unleavened bread so Passover was the day BEFORE the high day and a Sabbath day. Hence He died on Wednesday, the day before the high Sabbath day and not the normal weekly Sabbath day. Now count the days and nights and you get three full days and three full nights.
.

I don’t understand your reasoning.
First,** the verse from Mark’s gospel isn’t speaking of the date of crucifixion**.
Second, I’m not sure which translation you’re using, but the terminology “After two days” can be confusing. I find the RSV and NAB to be clearer:

RSV Mark 14:1 It was now two days before the Passover and the feast of UnleavenedBread. And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to arrest him by stealth, and kill him;

NAB Mark 14:1 The Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were to take place in two days’ time. So the chief priests and the scribes were seeking a way to arrest him by treachery and put him to death.

 

[Goya]

None of the scriptures you referenced say he rose on the first day of the week. Do they? In fact they all say he had already risen by the time they arrived.

So what?

Tradition preceedes scripture here. The Gospel accounts weren’t contemporaneous to the actual events; it’s not like St. John was sitting there at the foot of the Cross with a pencil and a notepad. Or that St. John stopped to let St. Peter go first, in order to pull out his little notepad so that he could document what was going on…

Even if we allow for your interpretation, it does not stand alone. IOW, just because scripture doesn’t say that he rose on the first day…doesn’t mean He didn’t. Hence you are left to look to extrinic evidence for corroberation.

ie.-Tradition.

The earliest Christians held that Chirst rose on what we call a “Sunday”. Universally.

Furhtermore, was it mere conincidence, that Chirst ascended into heaven, also on the first day (i.e.–Sunday)?

Your pesonal interpretation creates an incongruence in scripture. Gee, he rose again on what was it…a Monday…or was it the Sabbath?

…but ascended on a Sunday…

Which then, shall we observe as the Lord’s day?

 

[ALLGIRLS]

He’s already suspended! That might be a new record.

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[Nita]

I’m very sorry to see the OP has been “Suspended”. Does that mean he cannot post?
(I was unsuccesful in finding out by clicking on CAF’s Forum Rules.)

BTW, I don’t think we Catholics have been very courteous to him either. We have to be careful not to be guilty of doing the very thing we accuse him of.

 

[RocketRM]

Sorry to see him suspended. I may completely disagree with his views and his analysis leading to his conclusions but I would have liked to have seen some of his responses to the last couple of rebuttals.

BTW, I don’t think we Catholics have been very courteous to him either. We have to be careful not to be guilty of doing the very thing we accuse him of.

Nita - I do believe that it was more the style of his writing right from the start that set the tone. The fact that members continued to debate a non-issue for 3 pages is proof that we were attempting to be courteous.

God Bless and Happy upcoming Easter to everyone!

 

[Nita]

Sorry to see him suspended. I may completely disagree with his views and his analysis leading to his conclusions but I would have liked to have seen some of his responses to the last couple of rebuttals.

Does that mean then that he cannot post?

Nita - I do believe that it was more the style of his writing right from the start that set the tone. The fact that members continued to debate a non-issue for 3 pages is proof that we were attempting to be courteous.

God Bless and Happy upcoming Easter to everyone!

It may be a non-issue to us, but it obviously isn’t for him. He is as convinced of his view as we are of ours. If we are to lead him to the truth, then it needs to be done charitably - or he’ll leave the forum altogether and then the opportunity to share the truth with him will cease.

 

[RocketRM]

Does that mean then that he cannot post?

I don’t believe he will be able to post under a suspension. Although I do not believe a suspension is permanent.

It may be a non-issue to us, but it obviously isn’t for him. He is as convinced of his view as we are of ours. If we are to lead him to the truth, then it needs to be done charitably - or he’ll leave the forum altogether and then the opportunity to share the truth with him will cease.

Point well taken. As I said, I would love to hear back from him on the forum regarding his rebuttals to the previous posts.

 

[EricFilmer]

The high day was the beginning of the Feast of unleavened bread so Passover was the day BEFORE the high day and a Sabbath day. Hence He died on Wednesday, the day before the high Sabbath day and not the normal weekly Sabbath day. Now count the days and nights and you get three full days and three full nights.

This aspect of the discussion is addressed in the following linked article:
Jimmy Akin: Was Jesus Crucified on Wednesday or Friday?

 

[Nita]

This aspect of the discussion is addressed in the following linked article:
Jimmy Akin: Was Jesus Crucified on Wednesday or Friday?

Thanks Eric.

 

[R_C]

It may be a non-issue to us, but it obviously isn’t for him. He is as convinced of his view as we are of ours. If we are to lead him to the truth, then it needs to be done charitably - or he’ll leave the forum altogether and then the opportunity to share the truth with him will cease.

In fact, there is a major difference between looking for the truth and impugning the truth. He did not ask a question (as 1ke tried to point out before being attacked). What he is doing (was doing ) was to call a solid Christian tradition a lie, and accusing the Catholic Church of spreading that lie, thus calling her a liar. That is not grounds for a debate, but for a clash, and neither he nor us benefit in the least - well, we do, for such a thread is to a degree a source of mortification

With such premises, he may as well walk away The Lord was not afraid of asking the 12 if they, too, wanted to leave him. We don’t force anyone to follow us

 

[Nita]

In fact, there is a major difference between looking for the truth and impugning the truth. He did not ask a question (as 1ke tried to point out before being attacked). What he is doing (was doing ) was to call a solid Christian tradition a lie, and accusing the Catholic Church of spreading that lie, thus calling her a liar.

As I mentioned earlier, it is because he believes it is a lie. He considers his belief to be the truth and probably hopes to get us to believe that also.

That is not grounds for a debate, but for a clash,

I see it as an opportunity to share the reasons for our belief with him – and hopefully to get him to share our belief.

and neither he nor us benefit in the least - well, we do, for such a thread is to a degree a source of mortification

I’m sorry you feel that way. As I see it, apologetics is primarily sharing our beliefs with those who hold opposing beliefs. We should not be surprised when they put forth their views emphatically. I hope we’re not so thin-skinned and weak that we can’t handle a little verbal negativity without responding in kind! We are not responsible for the manner in which they speak, but we are responsible for the manner in which we speak – and it should be charitably. Our goal should not be just to score more points in a debate, but hopefully to inspire the other person to see the truth of the Catholic position and desire it for himself.

With such premises, he may as well walk away The Lord was not afraid of asking the 12 if they, too, wanted to leave him. We don’t force anyone to follow us

Jesus didn’t ask them that with a dismissive attitude – that they “may as well walk away”.

 

[Nita]

I’ll play the role of Devil’s Advocate a bit and point out how the phrase usually translated as “the first day of the week” is in Greek, mian sabbaton/mia ton sabbaton “the first of (the) sabbaths.” I’m pretty sure (or at least I hope) you guys have done your homework on this one.

Did you have to make things so difficult Patrick?!?

You made me do homework – and I do not know Greek.
(I can’t even figure out how to type Greek characters on a post. )

But I do have Greek Bible (Old and New Testaments) software with several dictionaries. The first thing I found out is that you are correct about the Greek literally being “first” and “sabbath”. Obviously, the Scripture passages in question are not refering to the literal “first Sabbath” (which would be in either Genesis or Exodus).
Thank heavens for the dictionaries. One of the definitions given for “sabbath” was that it could refer to a period of 7 days - a week. Thus the meaning that “first sabbath” refers to the “first” of the 7 days that make up a week.

Is that how you would interpret the literal Greek?