Eastern Catholicism's Relationship with Western Theology and Tradition

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Again , a blessed Feast of St.Benedict …thought it would be good to think of St.Theresa Benedicta of The Cross too , esp. in light of this article linked at the HebrewCatholic Assn .site - aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

on the finds of how the universe is both young and old …and how God uses only a small speck of matter , to make the whole universe, in His Godly loving energy !

Is not the connection to the Eucharistic truth so evident …and how it would highlight the truths of our own use of matter and our bodies , in sacredness and Godly loving order or destructive , lustful , enemy ways, that can have far reaching , even unimaginable effects …glimpses of truths that have been in the hearts of the Fathers of our faith all along …

so much to be grateful for, as well as to bring to the redeeming merciful love of The Father of us all !

Peace !
 
Feast of Bl.Kateri today - of Native American descent , a patroness of nature lovers too …had a short life of trials and persecutions …had problems with vision , suffering from small pox, said to have been brought here , by settlers .

She is also called the Lily of the Mohawks …

and her Feast falls on the 8th day of that of another little girl , 11 y.o Maria Goretti , who was attacked by the young man who had become ‘blind’ by reading immoral books ; she died forgiving him …and he himself said to have converted many years later , when she appeared to him , in a dream , while he was in prison, carrying 14 lillies - symbolic of the # of times she was stabbed …

Her tomb in Ancona , not far from the tomb of St.Thomas , in Ortona .

Episodes of trials and persecutions,along with the power of the Risen Lord , familiar to the East and the West …

Here is a good article on the persecutions The Church faced , in our neighbor Mexico , orchestrated by antiChurch agents of U.S - a significant side of history that might get left out by secular agencies but is not to be ignored -
Mexico is at times portrayed an icon of the failure of the Catholic Church .

Would it not be good to remember how much better things might have been all around - if not for incidents such as above !

May our collective pleading for mercy , on ancestors of all our lands too , be aided by the prayers of the above saints , as we too face more cultures and values that esp. threaten girls, freedom of The Church and the purity of the upbringing of the children .

.
 
Feast of Sts Ann and Joachim , 7/26 ( 13X2 ! )

Came across reference to this Canadian born priest , Rev. Fr .Clement Machado , whose bio mentions that his dad Joachim was born in India ; mom is named Ann 🙂

He mentions of his father’s devotion to St.Thomas and his own mystical experience with St.Patrick , at the time of his ordination ;
Code: 
    trained in exorcism in Rome , under the papal appointed exorcist -  Fr.Amorth , Fr.Machado has travelled  extensively, in East and West , on exorcism missions , bringing the love of Christ , to release the prisoners - held in tombs of darkness of  evil and greed , ( esp. rampant  may be in our own times possibly  from pasttimes , such as  widespread gambling  even promoted at times in churches, as bingo or lottery  ! ) , and other effects of generational strongholds of evil !
youtube.com/watch?v=FAg0yj3LdCc - has powerful exorcism prayers , that can be repeatedly listened to , by those of East and West , to deal with the many isssues that are common to us all !

His book 'Holy Hands ’ on the power of priesthood narrates incidents of exorcism which gives some glimpses of the power The Lord entrusts to His priests , as well as that of the enemy and its long lasting effects in families, at times through generations , if not driven out …

And how even one angel of God is more powerful than all demons put together and how much more powerful our God is !

May The Lord in His mercy , deliver , esp. those in places of authority over us , from the adversary , keep us in the holy , joyful company of His holy saints and angels !

Peace !
 
Hooray - the expected post about a Feast , or two .

Dear Josephene , why not let us read things for ourselves - if we so wish ?
 
The_Idiot said:
Hooray - the expected post about a Feast , or two .

Dear Josephene , why not let us read things for ourselves - if we so wish ?
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Intent was to share a good site on exorcism and seems God in His Providence , has granted a theme of continuity and connection , with the names of the parents of the priest ! 🙂

Glory be !

Feasts are a very joyful part of church life of East and West ; thought it would be good to share such , since they too give us a glimpse of heaven and the times we are in , all the more needed !

Peace !

P.S - thought the moderator would kindly inform, if the posts ar off topic ; yet , thank you for sharing the discomfort ; still unsure , as to the reason !
 
A Blessed Feast of Assumption to all !

Here is a Feast and Dogma that The East can be esp. grateful for , for the timely guidance of The Spirit , for the Universal Church and seems the need of assuarnce of faith that the of children of The Church are expected to ask for and recieve, makes it such that it also serves as an icon of unity in faith .

Interestingly , the Thomas land of India also celebrates her Independance from Britian today ( Britian , with its own history of severe and long persecution against The Church ! ) and thus , almost as a gift from the Patron Apostle and the Bl.Mother and seemingly , meant by Providence , to highlight the underlying tradition of the connection between the above two, patricularly with regard to this Dogma, since Thomas is said to have been the Apostle , who witnessed her Assumption .

Glimpses of that Dogma can be seen even in the non Christian faiths of the land, in the value given to sexual purity ,even if at the opposite spectrum, lies/ beliefs in reincarnation, even as animals also prevalent …

What is more mysterious would be , the possibilty that in certain lands , seemingly with a history of Islamic domination may be , the emphasis is more on Dormition … ( not meaning to offend anyone’s sensibilities …but thought these are pertinent matters to our faith and relationship .)

Seems there is truth in both - Bl.Emmerich mentions how the Bl.Mother, when she came to Jerusalem , for the Synod of the Apostles , that she did go through
a deep 'sleep lilke ’ / fainting episode ( would she have been shown what was happen soon to her beloved Jerusalem , that was set for destruction by the Romans ! ) and that Apostles even prepared a tomb for her - thus the Church of Dormition in Jerusalem .

She recovered and returned to Ephesus , with St.John , from where the Assumption takes place , that St.Thomas , who was at the time , in India, spreading the truth , all through that land .

Would it have been likley that the ruling , controlling powers that wanted to damage hope and faith of a people would not have wanted them to focus on the Assumption …but more on the Dormition and thus , the proclamation of the Dogma serves to joyfully reclaim what was meant to have been stolen !

and we see how God works marvelously …esp., through the coincidence of the

twin , like in Thomas ! 🙂 celebrations today , esp. in an Eastern Church too !

Glory be !
 
Josephene said:
A Blessed Feast of Assumption to all !

Here is a Feast and Dogma that The East can be esp. grateful for , for the timely guidance of The Spirit , for the Universal Church and seems the need of assuarnce of faith that the of children of The Church are expected to ask for and recieve, makes it such that it also serves as an icon of unity in faith .

Interestingly , the Thomas land of India also celebrates her Independance from Britian today ( Britian , with its own history of severe and long persecution against The Church ! ) and thus , almost as a gift from the Patron Apostle and the Bl.Mother and seemingly , meant by Providence , to highlight the underlying tradition of the connection between the above two, patricularly with regard to this Dogma, since Thomas is said to have been the Apostle , who witnessed her Assumption .

Glimpses of that Dogma can be seen even in the non Christian faiths of the land, in the value given to sexual purity ,even if at the opposite spectrum, lies/ beliefs in reincarnation, even as animals also prevalent …

What is more mysterious would be , the possibilty that in certain lands , seemingly with a history of Islamic domination may be , the emphasis is more on Dormition … ( not meaning to offend anyone’s sensibilities …but thought these are pertinent matters to our faith and relationship .)

Seems there is truth in both - Bl.Emmerich mentions how the Bl.Mother, when she came to Jerusalem , for the Synod of the Apostles , that she did go through
a deep 'sleep lilke ’ / fainting episode ( would she have been shown what was happen soon to her beloved Jerusalem , that was set for destruction by the Romans ! ) and that Apostles even prepared a tomb for her - thus the Church of Dormition in Jerusalem .

She recovered and returned to Ephesus , with St.John , from where the Assumption takes place , that St.Thomas , who was at the time , in India, spreading the truth , all through that land .

Would it have been likley that the ruling , controlling powers that wanted to damage hope and faith of a people would not have wanted them to focus on the Assumption …but more on the Dormition and thus , the proclamation of the Dogma serves to joyfully reclaim what was meant to have been stolen !

and we see how God works marvelously …esp., through the coincidence of the

twin , like in Thomas ! 🙂 celebrations today , esp. in an Eastern Church too !

Glory be !
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If “falling asleep” means fainting, then St. Stephen fainted at the end of Acts 7 after being stoned.
 
ConstantineTG said:
If “falling asleep” means fainting, then St. Stephen fainted at the end of Acts 7 after being stoned.
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Well, one of the not so distant gifts for our times has been the rediscovery of Bl.Mother’s house , in Ephesus , where she spent her last days .

It is major pilgrimage center, visited by Popes .

The finding that there are historical truths , that supprot the traditions of our faiths , without contradicting matters , is a comforting thought .

amazon.com/The-Life-Blessed-Virgin-Mary/dp/0895550482#_ - a good read for those who want to relish the matter furthur , to get help , if needed , to distinguish the ’ Dormition’ incident of Bl.Mother , while in Jerusalem from the martyrdom of St.Stephen .

Not contesting that this has to go against the belief of her ’ falling asleep ’ , at the end , while in Ephesus !

For us Catholics ,seems the invitation is to focus on how good The Lord and His Father has been , to this Mother of ours , who is joyfully called as the ‘cause of our joy .’’

So be it !

Peace !
 
Even Christ, the Logos, the Son of the Living God, died bodily. Why would His Mother not share to the extent possible in all that her Son endured? We as Eastern Christians celebrate (albeit for me not until August 28th) the bodily Dormition of the Mother of God, and even carry a burial shroud with her Dormition depicted on it.

In several places (such as our Studite Ukrainian Greek Catholic monastery in Univ dedicated to the Dormition) we even sing Lamentations or burial laments to the Mother of God on the Dormition that are similar in structure and melody as those used on Holy Saturday.

This is no “fainting episode”. This is an ancient tradition derived in Jerusalem. I’ll take the received liturgical tradition over personal revelation. And no less than the famous Ludwig Ott states in his Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma: “…the fact of her death is almost generally accepted by the Fathers and Theologians, and is expressly affirmed in the Liturgy of the Church.”

Regarding celibacy, married priests have been beatified by the Church (some of the great Fathers of the Church were married), and that is testimony enough. This thread, which seems to concentrate on Latin private revalations, Latin feast days, and personal Latin interpretations of Eastern Christian practices and discipline, doesn’t seem to properly belong in this section of the Forum.
 
There is no contesting of the belief system that Bl.Mother did die - was using the

'falling asleep ’ terminology , to correspond to the ‘Dormition’ title of the Feast , in certain parts of the East ( not all of the East either ! )

There is no questioning of the practice or possibilty of sanctity for married priesthood either .

Yet, wanted to support the tradition of emphasis on celibacy as an esteemed practice, in both the East and the West !

One reason to highlight the truth of this Dogma has been to bring comfort to those who are often faced unjustly , with questions about the need for such !

The Church proclaiming a Dogma is an important matter , for both the East and the West and we of the East need to especially recognise same for what it is ,as an important part of our real ( even if lost temporarily ) tradition !

Peace !
 
Josephene said:
Well, one of the not so distant gifts for our times has been the rediscovery of Bl.Mother’s house , in Ephesus , where she spent her last days .

It is major pilgrimage center, visited by Popes .

The finding that there are historical truths , that supprot the traditions of our faiths , without contradicting matters , is a comforting thought .

amazon.com/The-Life-Blessed-Virgin-Mary/dp/0895550482#_ - a good read for those who want to relish the matter furthur , to get help , if needed , to distinguish the ’ Dormition’ incident of Bl.Mother , while in Jerusalem from the martyrdom of St.Stephen .

Not contesting that this has to go against the belief of her ’ falling asleep ’ , at the end , while in Ephesus !

For us Catholics ,seems the invitation is to focus on how good The Lord and His Father has been , to this Mother of ours , who is joyfully called as the ‘cause of our joy .’’

So be it !

Peace !
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Mary lived in Ephesus before her dormition. The only point of contention right now is that if her tomb is in Ephesus or in Jerusalem. Here’s the Catholic Encyclopedia entry about Mary’s tomb:

newadvent.org/cathen/14774a.htm
 
ConstantineTG said:
Mary lived in Ephesus before her dormition. The only point of contention right now is that if her tomb is in Ephesus or in Jerusalem. Here’s the Catholic Encyclopedia entry about Mary’s tomb:

newadvent.org/cathen/14774a.htm
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing the above - interesting to read the mention of the tomb , since Bl.Emmerich also mentions how a tomb was made for her , in Jerusalem .

sacred-destinations.com/turkey/ephesus-house-of-the-virgin - the 'miraculous ’ nature of the finding of her house can give us pause …and may be help many , from recognising the varied nature of certain percieved truths , to be bit more easy on some of the nonessentials , that keep up the divisions …

Good to read how on this day , in Ephesus , the celebration is held by the Catholic , Orthodox and Muslims together !

Peace !
 
Thought it would be good to share these too , as reasons for more gratitude towards the Office of Papacy and esp. for Pope Pius X11 , who was instrumental, in the declaration of the Assumption Dogma and who seemed to have been esp. targetted by the enemy , with unjust accusations , with issues around WW11 .

Could see how he tactfully avoided the words of ‘death’ in relation to the earthly life of The Virgin …since that would seem to imply, ’ The Feast of Death ’ !

Again, apologies , for being rather blunt , yet, thought that these are issues that can be discussed at the small fry , laity level , so that the rough edges gets worn off … a role that Pope John Paul 11 seem to have envisioned , for the laity …

And , since we are a people of the Word , with a history of deeply caring about words and the ideas that they convey , which even has led to longstanding divisions , seems it is good to see if 'untraditional ’ ideas of seemingly making a Feast of death - and that too of our Mother , is something that had to be corrected , which is what The Dogma seems to have done - with The Lord’s promise of ’ what you bind on earth, is bound in heaven ’ so that , for those who now celebrate the occasion as Feast of Dormition , possibly are considered in same category as those who celebrate the Assumption !

The effects from such,possibly unfathomable , for our times - likely even opened paths for more graces , to bless The Church , with the whole theology of life , to counter a culture of death !

True, in the casse of most saints , it is their death anniv. that gets celebrated as the point of their entry to heaven …yet , cannot think of any , where in , the attention is specifically focused on the occasion of the 'falling asleep '/death itself - rather , it is to the whole life and of their entering heaven !

Thus , the cause for concern as to how this Feast gets called by such a name and how it has been mercifully dealt with , with enough sensitivity by The Church !

Hopefully , such a fact would shed more light , into hearts that need to see the rightness of Church teachings , with regard to the role of our beloved Savior , in the sending forth of The Spirit !

The other interesting note too , on how The Church of Dormition in Jerusalem, was forcibly taken over by the Greek Orthodox, with the approval of the Muslim rulers and how the Franciscans let it go …could it be that the forgiveness from that episode then led way, to more graces , which came out as the revelations regarding the Virgin’s House in Ephesus !

The confusion from some of the Church ( minor ) Father figures , regarding these issues might help too - to know that there is a way that The Spirit guides and moves The Church actively , into truth , through the Office of the Papacy and Magisterium …

Cause for us to rejoice !
 
Hoping that persons of East and West , who well know how much our suffeirng world is in need of healing at many levels , would be especillay grateful for the Dogmas and all the backgrounds that went into it …even the way The Spirit stirred up that thirst for truth that came out as debates ,in the preceding years , between learned and holy people ( which should help to see the openness and freedom , in The Church, to debate such, loudly , wthout fear of forced silence ! )

All such , about the nature of the effects of the fall , helped in the decisive step of the declaration of the Dogma - almost like the step when Moses raises up that staff , to tell the Israelites that it is time to put aside the fears and cross …to the promised land of trust …for all the fruits that are to come from same !

In the case of the Dogma of Immaculate Conception, we see such , almost immediatly , in the Apparition of Bl.Mother , as The Immculate Conception , at Lourdes …and the healing waters , that still flow …

Would be good to ponder too , if the amazing events regarding Louise Pastuer , a son of France , a devotee of Bl.Mother , and his discoveries that made vast diffrences , in determing cause of illnesses and prevention of same , esp. . through vacccines , also might be related …after all, the Dogma too proclaim how Bl.Mother was kept free , from the effects of the carnal, fallen nature of mankind , through her holy parents , a truth that is to give strenght and hope , for our times , to prevent much that the enemy intends for us all !

We, of East or West would not mind making use of the healing help of either of above …
and thus , the exhortation of Bl.John Paul 11 , to not be afraid , to relish the goodness of our Father , in truths and blessings such as above - may that too prevent any unnecessary fears and resultant divsions but only help ,to marvel at the goodness of the source of it all !
 
Came across this article , that talks about Family healings and the related book , by the same author - Fr.Youzef, from Uganda -

nbccongress.org/features/prayer-for-healing.asp ; brings to attention , some areas /reasons for seemingly 'unanswered ’ prayers …

The book mentions obeseravations on how involvement by parents in things such as Freemasonry, seem to mysteriously affect the grandcildren, with loss of faith !

There is also mention, as given in these excerpts , on practices, such as yoga, related to idolatry , which could also lead to loss of faith -

spiritdaily.com/Yozefu2.htm

As we prepare for the Year of Faith , might be good to see such reasons playing a part …be able to repent , on behalf of all in the family …

including the larger families that we all are part of …

doing so, on behalf of those in authority over us , who are trying to implement unjust laws - may be we can expect miracles !
 
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