Eastern Catholics Uncomfortable with De-Latinization

[Fr_Ambrose]

Lumen Gentium:

I, a Latin Catholic for one, came to this forum ignorant of everything about Eastern and Oriental Catholicism. It took me several weeks in this – of all places – non-Catholic religions part of the the forum to understand everything amidst uncharitbale posts, quarrels and accusations of being a Latin “triamphalist.”

Yes, I remember that, when you were being battered by your fellow Catholics for symptoms of “triumphalism.” But you have perserved here and now we couldn’t imagine the place without you. Even if the Mods go with your recommendation to create a separate Eastern Catholic section I hope that you won’t forget us in the Orthodox section.

 

[Lumen_Gentium]

proper place…categories…classification…purposes of clarification, education…These are what goes on in my mind, Fr. Ambrose.

As much as you try to fit your feet in the shoes of the Byzantine Catholics, you are of the Orthodox Church, and they are Catholics. There’s a line between the two.

Your point is well taken, but seems to me those points are usually not raised or applied properly nor being felt in this forum. What is being felt in this forum are cruel realities. Example, when a Latin Catholic criticizes an orthodox, the orthodox will immediately use the Byzantine Catholics as shields and accuse a Latin Catholic of triumphalism. It’s like when Peter hits James, James will not hit Peter back, but uses John to hit Peter back. It is not really fair and square.

My suggestion, then, was to avoid these kind of conflicts by proper education at the proper level and proper place in this forum.

When you keep John out of James, James will be able to “contrast and compare” fair and square with Peter.
Fr Ambrose:

Lumen, you have a point of course. But since the Eastern Catholic Churches are presented as the model by which the Orthodox Churches will eventually be integrated into the Catholic Church the Orthodox take a keen interest in what happens in the Eastern Catholic Churches. If integration ever occurs Rome will deal with us as she presently deals with the Eastern Catholics.

So you see why the Orthodox and the Eastern Catholics have something in common? Their present reality is the future which Rome has in mind for us.

So when we see things such as Patriarch Lubomir and the Synod of the Ukrainian Church being unable to ordain bishops or even to simply transfer them from one diocese to another without approval from Rome, it sets off alarm bells for the Orthodox.

I realise that you have never had any personal contact in Samoa with either Orthodox or Eastern Catholics and so you may not have quite grasped the full situation and how we interact.

 

[livingtashlikh]

ByzCath:

We are in communion with Rome with our own hierarchs. We are not under Rome no matter how many of you Orthodox make this claim.

Again, we are not under Rome.

We are Byzantine Catholics and it is because of posts like yours and your Orthodox brethren in this thread that I think we Byzantine Catholics should not be included with you in a section here.

After all, you treat us as some bastard child, even to the point of telling us we do not have a right to our ancient tradtions and that we should keep the latinizations.

The time at which I said that you have no right to your Traditions certainly escapes me. I’m perfectly fine with being in one forum, but the facts are there. Byzantine Catholics are Eastern Christians under the authority of the Roman Pope. It seems to me that you want me to call you Orthodox and Catholic. The fact of the matter is that you’re not Orthodox. I don’t mean to be uncharitable, but that’s just the truth. To say that the Eastern Catholic Churches are not under the authority of Rome has no basis at all. Many Byzantine Catholics such as yourself will say you have a right to your own Traditions in the Roman Church such as: no dogma of purgatory, different belief on original sin, different Creed, yet many Roman Catholics say otherwise. If you are allowed to keep the Eastern Traditions it is solely at the discretion of the Pope of Rome. Can you deny this?
In my eyes, that says you’re under his authority. In many cases pastoral matters in the Eastern Church such as ordination, clergy transfers etc are under direct control of either the Roman Pope or the Roman Episcopate in general. Is this something you are going to tell me isn’t true? There is this picture painted that pastorally, the Eastern Catholic Church operates in almost the same way as the Orthodox Church. That is hardly the case.
I’m not treating you as any sort of bastard child. I’m simply stating what is. You are under the Pope of Rome, despite this, many Eastern Catholics want to be called Orthodox and Catholic without calling us Catholic. I don’t wish to be accusatory, but your separatist attitude tells me you look down on us, not the other way around.

 

[Lalia_Mackay]

This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.