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PickyPicky
Guest
And to think, I haven’t been a coreligionist for 60 years!
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Vonsalza
Guest
We’re children of the west. As such, there’s a categorizing term for everything - including all the different types of "non"s that are still defined by the affirmative term inherently referenced like “religion”.Vonsalza:
And to think, I haven’t been a coreligionist for 60 years!
Three cheers for western academia.
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Vonsalza
Guest
They certainly produce fewer “When I did ‘X’, was it a sin?” posts. So there’s some time saved.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
LOLOLOL into a complete sentence.
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Calliope
Guest
This issue of atheists having more time/space/fill in the blank because they don’t believe in god, came up on another forum this morning (an atheist forum!). As if there is some vacuum there where god would otherwise be.They certainly produce fewer “When I did ‘X’, was it a sin?” posts. So there’s some time saved.
I do know that some faiths teach that humans have a god shaped hole in their souls and are always seeking to fill it. And some teach that nature abhors a vacuum…
At any rate, my life is as full as anyone’s I know. I don’t have some odd uncomfortable space there causing me to say “hmm…I wonder what others do to fill their time?” Lack of belief in god doesn’t leave a gaping hole.
I have beliefs, responsibilities, ideas, feelings, commitments, interests same as anyone. The idea that since I don’t attend church somehow my Sunday morning parts like the Red Sea with 90 minutes of time to loaf around is kind of humorous.
This assumes a point of reference being “belief in God” and an equation of how much time and energy that belief requires, and everything being compared to that, as if that is the default human condition. To a believer from birth, that may be the assumed default. To everyone else it’s not.
Not having expectation of a deity or faith community to live up to, does not mean we don’t have expectations or a community that we are invested in.
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steve-b
Guest
When you said
"Rising from the dead is the criteria for what exactly"?
To use St Paul’s words
Re: the importance of rising from the dead 1 Corinthians 15:13-19 RSVCE - But if there is no resurrection of the - Bible Gateway
It was a TIC comment, whose author I’m not sure, although it gets a lot of action by a lot of people…
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Bradskii
Guest
Well the chat is mostly about sport, especially footy at this time of year (rugby league to you). Then beer, then politics, then property prices. It would be a long session if it got around to religion - which would be part of the ‘life, universe and everything’ type of discussion thatvtends to arise in the wee hours.Bradskii:
I do my best not to adopt British snotty ignorance about Australian culture (except where it overflows onto the cricket field) but do Aussies really chat about theology at the barbie?
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Vonsalza
Guest
Thanks for the thoughts. One point;
The blessing of our intelligence is also cursed with the crisis of meaning - the other edge of the sword of self-awareness. I think religion is the evolved mechanism by which very smart species like ours address this.
On an evolutionary basis I think belief is the default position. When we were intelligent enough to create/observe/whatever religion, it fulfilled an evolutionary need or else every single culture on the pre-modern planet probably wouldn’t have done it.
The blessing of our intelligence is also cursed with the crisis of meaning - the other edge of the sword of self-awareness. I think religion is the evolved mechanism by which very smart species like ours address this.
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laylow
Guest
Well, I think we would all agree that rising from the dead alone doesn’t make one God. If it were, Lazarus and many Zombies from the Old Testament would form a number much larger than the Trinity.
However, if I were an eye witness to someone rising from the dead, I would certainly be impressed. I would first question my own sanity, but if others confirmed what I was seeing was legit, I would probably believe something crazy special must be going on here.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead from other eye witnesses during the time of the event, I would be impressed, but have many questions. I would wonder if these people had mental issues. I would wonder if they had an agenda. Ultimately, if it was widely attested and they held to their believe strongly and I actually witnessed people die for their belief, I would have a strong sense that they believed what they saw.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead from a written source 40 years after the events happened, my level of impression would be lessened. I would question the validity of the claims. I would be looking for sources of evidence and comparing stories. I may be inclined to believe parts of it due to the influence of people makes the claims.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead 2000 years after the event, from ancient written sources in which are thought to have been originally written at least 40 years after the event happened, except the source I am hearing it from is produced from copies of copies of copies of copies…etc of the original, I would be extremely skeptical of the claims. I would therefore begin to study the history of the events. A historical study would include critical analysis of the writings, claims, culture of the time,etc. If the analysis uncovered inconsistencies, bias, and forgeries in the writings, red flags would begin to rise. If I began to learn that the culture of the era already comprised of virgin births and dead ones rising, etc. my conclusion would be this just happens to be one of the myths that became popularized and “stuck” for a few thousand years. That’s what seems reasonable to me.
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laylow
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This is an interesting point that I believe has a decent amount of merit. I think it is also interesting to suppose that humans could evolve away from religion if it seems to no longer be needed. Some may argue it is already happening in areas of the world that have a higher standard of living. The US is obviously a huge exception to that theory. I think many religious or “higher power” ideas were/are rooted on things that cannot be explained or are not known. Although I believe that these likely will always exist in the human experience, the need for humans to turn to a higher power for comfort or understanding may not be always needed.
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Sleepy2
Guest
You can use a time accounting app on your phone and check your time invested in religious activities, don’t forget the driving. If you are posting here I bet you will rack up considerable time.
Its up to you how you spend you time and if religion makes you happy then great. I think time for sleeping in and other activities make me more happy.
Its up to you how you spend you time and if religion makes you happy then great. I think time for sleeping in and other activities make me more happy.
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Elf01
Guest
Yet you’re posting here too. Why? For me at leastI can learn about my faith.
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Vonsalza
Guest
I don’t think we’ll ever get past the crisis of meaning and still preserve the intelligence that drives it.
As long as we look outward and ask “why?”, we’ll also look at ourselves and ask “why?”
The crisis of meaning is the flip-side of intelligence. It’s why religion accompanied the evolution of humans. It’s an answer.
As long as we look outward and ask “why?”, we’ll also look at ourselves and ask “why?”
The crisis of meaning is the flip-side of intelligence. It’s why religion accompanied the evolution of humans. It’s an answer.
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laylow
Guest
I can think of a few wild scenarios. But they would be considered firmly Sci-Fi.
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steve-b
Guest
steve-b:
Well, I think we would all agree that rising from the dead alone doesn’t make one God. If it were, Lazarus and many Zombies from the Old Testament would form a number much larger than the Trinity.
However, if I were an eye witness to someone rising from the dead, I would certainly be impressed. I would first question my own sanity, but if others confirmed what I was seeing was legit, I would probably believe something crazy special must be going on here.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead from other eye witnesses during the time of the event, I would be impressed, but have many questions. I would wonder if these people had mental issues. I would wonder if they had an agenda. Ultimately, if it was widely attested and they held to their believe strongly and I actually witnessed people die for their belief, I would have a strong sense that they believed what they saw.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead from a written source 40 years after the events happened, my level of impression would be lessened. I would question the validity of the claims. I would be looking for sources of evidence and comparing stories. I may be inclined to believe parts of it due to the influence of people makes the claims.
If I heard someone was raised from the dead 2000 years after the event, from ancient written sources in which are thought to have been originally written at least 40 years after the event happened, except the source I am hearing it from is produced from copies of copies of copies of copies…etc of the original, I would be extremely skeptical of the claims. I would therefore begin to study the history of the events. A historical study would include critical analysis of the writings, claims, culture of the time,etc. If the analysis uncovered inconsistencies, bias, and forgeries in the writings, red flags would begin to rise. If I began to learn that the culture of the era already comprised of virgin births and dead ones rising, etc. my conclusion would be this just happens to be one of the myths that became popularized and “stuck” for a few thousand years. That’s what seems reasonable to me.
- All I’m required to do is give you the information properly referenced. What you do with it is up to you.
- NO BODY is a better teacher than Jesus. His own disciples left Him over His teaching in spite of seeing Him raise Lazarus from the dead, cure lepers, give sight to the blind, etc etc. And what did Jesus do as a result of them leaving Him? Nothing. He let them go. No fuss no muss. He let them go . Free will can be a real bugger. Because there was an ultimatum in that response He gave them. A conditional statement. And THEY chose NOT to agree.
- Free will
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FormerXCatholic
Guest
Hi there, consider this off topic, but I am in a similar situation with my girlfriend. We are having second thoughts about marriage because we don’t agree on how to raise our potential kids. She is basically atheist/agnostic and me Catholic. My views on homosexuality are aligned with church teaching. She believes homosexual (sex?) isnt a sin at all… Some insight into your marriage would help me, if you have time to share.
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LateCatholic
Guest
The SS was 99.8% Christian. Christian priests led the concentration camps in Slovakia.
The two highest givers to charity of all-time are Atheists.
Saying atheists de-value life is not only unfair it is wrong. Atheist moral frameworks are far superior to Christian because the are based on logic and reason, not out-dated books written thousands of years ago. I’m not saying I am an atheist, but Id o believe their moral frameworks are superior.
Who are they?
What makes them qualified?
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LateCatholic
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