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po18guy
Well-known member
As with so many of the apologetics threads, this goes back to the error of the private interpretation of scripture. To think that we are prohibited from drinking Christ’s blood is to go against His explicit -]advice/-] command from that very same scripture. It also risks the assumption (not to say in this case) that each and every one of the twelve Apostles, Saint Paul, Apollos, Timothy, Titus, the Early Chirch Fathers, all of the Doctors of the Church, each Pope, Patriarch, Bishop, Metropolitan, Priest, Deacon, religious Brother and Sister, their Superiors, as well as the billions of lay practitioners of the faith over the past two thousand years have all been wrong - and that one’s own understanding of a few passages from scrioture is right.
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panevino
Guest
Lev17: 11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood…14 **For [it is] the life of all flesh; **the blood of it [is] for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: **for the life of all flesh [is] the blood **thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
Deu 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood [is] the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
The life/blood found in the flesh in the OT passover lamb is a little different to that of the NT lamb of God
John 6:… 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,** and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.**54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last…
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snarflemike
Guest
It’s also interesting how some Protestants become OT Jews when it suits them in objecting to Catholic teaching, but under no other circumstances. They become Cafeteria OT Jews.
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TimothyH
Guest
God reserved the consumption of blood only to Christ’s blood, because Christ was God.
If the life is in the blood, then we don’t want to drink the blood of animals and life the life of animals. Instead we drink the blood of Christ and life the life of Christ.
The life is in the Blood He who drinks the blood of Christ will live forever. He who drinks the blood of animals will die because “The life is in the blood”.
-Tim-
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Abbigaelann
Guest
I take it literally but not the way some of you do…I see it as a product of human hands, thus shared because we are human…it is the request for forgiveness, and blessing, that sanctifies to make it holy and the actual transforming process…i.e. God’s blessing and our ability to participate in it as we have done as we are commanded to do so, as a viable part of the Church proper. Just as Christ was human and divine…through this following we too shall share more fully now and later through grace in the communion that is God. The way some are making it sound gets downright gross here…
But as far as some neat stuff to read, poor judge Pliny finally got it worked out they weren’t cannibals, it was just folks overhearing and misunderstanding the Eucharist. Yet, he still didn’t know what to do with them…nice folks, good workers, helpful…just wouldn’t bow down to Roman gods…what can he do? what should he do? Pliny was born in 62 A.D. One excerpt that references these ‘newfangled’ Christians are X 96 and X 97. Hopefully you can find some good commentaries of his work with cross references. This was just from my h.s. 3rd year Latin book… (As an aside, comparisons and contrasts with mythologies, and writings such as these helped cement rather than turn me away from Christianity. We also read Ovid’s Metamorphosis. But Pliny, Cicero, Catiline…complaints of their day…not unlike those today…It makes you realize we aren’t as smart as we’d like to think compared to past generations, and like Isaiah, the world history is repeat, repeat, repeat…we’re just trying to do damage control LOL)
po18guy
Well-known member
Just wondering how you came to this conclusion about the Eucharist.
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PetrusRomanus
Guest
It is literally spiritually the flesh and blood of Christ.
At least thats how I understand it. Someone correct me if Im wrong.
At least thats how I understand it. Someone correct me if Im wrong.
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snarflemike
Guest
I would say this is incorrect. Jesus is more than spirit since the incarnation. He is body and blood and soul too. All those aspects of Jesus are present in the Eucharist. I believe the language used is that Jesus is substantially present in the Eucharist; that is, his entire substance (body, blood, soul and divinity) IS the substance of the “bread” and of the “wine”.
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onthisrock
Guest
Not microbiologically, but in Jesus’ words six times in John:6,“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any one eats of this bread he will live forever, and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh” Of course he goes on to say the same of his blood and the wine, but you can’t have flesh without blood, Jesus was just trying to explain over and over untill the people who said"This is a hard saying, who can listen to this?" Jesus knew these people where murmering at him, so he says “Do you take offense at this?” He goes on to ask “What if you saw the son of man ascending where he was before?” FINALLY Jesus says “I have spoken to you and you are spirit and life.” “But there are some of you that do not believe” He knew who would betray him. He didn’t say…"wait, This is a parable…he said this 6 times in one chapter. It was too much, so they left his side and betrayed him. We of course have this now with protestants. I grew up Lutheran and the junk we were told was a fairy tale. I read the Bible over a year, went to Mass everyday for a year, and made the plundge. I love the Sacrament of the Eucharist. It is the closest to being with Christ.
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onthisrock
Guest
I just know no one who can seperate parts of their body. God did this by design. If you believe in the Trinity which it seems you do, then the Father Son and Holy Spirit are all in one. …even daily thoughts are are all connected. When I go to confession, I confess everything I have done and what I have thought that may have lead to a wrong action. Maybe look at the entire book of John as there are no parables, only Jesus talking straight to people, especially His Apostles who went around the world which is why we have so many Rites of the Catholic Church, and those Apostles ordained future priests and so on…
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ServiteJack
Guest
Code:
Yet As Catholics we know Jesus to be Both God AND Man.- Truly Divine and Truly Man.
So it would be incorrect (would it not?), to state or imply the Divine status of His particular blood is what makes this Rule not applicable.
Being both God and Man means His humanity, His human blood was spilled out as well.
Not that of a Deceased Body; but of One in which Still Lives.
VERY Different thing from even those who had died but were risen from the grave, as is written in both The Old and New Testaments. For although they too had arose from death when as the breath of life was returned to them… none had entered into the new-form of The Glorified Body.
For there is Nothing That can be likened to that of The Eucharistic Body and Blood.
Unlike any and all beasts or men.
For It is The Glorified Body and Blood which is given unto us.
The Glorified Blood of Jesus Christ, True God and True Man.
Mercy is highly (and sadly) under-rated
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ServiteJack
Guest
The Eucharist is Truly, Verily The Body and Blood of Christ.
It is Not symbolic - it is Christ - The Lamb of God - The Blood and Body of Jesus - This IS my Body - This IS my Blood… not think of it like … or it’s sorta kinda the same as.
this is - And Microbiology speaking as well.
Search up Eucharistic Miracles - My favorite is from the catholic Priest who’d say:
(and I’m para-phrasing here)
"The Church would be better off without this hocus-pocus stuff of The Eucharist… then at One Mass The ‘bread’ became visibly to the eye (to this day) flesh.
There are these Miracles that scientists have studied and they are flesh of man with certain characteristics, Blood Type etc.
But if I may, during as pilgrimage to Yugoslavia (when there still was a Yugoslavia!) I ran into a fellow American (a mentor-ee of The holy Priest, Father Peter Mary Rookey, who is still alive last I heard at 96 yrs old) - She was speaking of The True Essence of The Eucharist - I replied she was mistaken it was simply symbolic in meaning - I went to Catholic School all my life! (<says a lot there of today’s schooling - or maybe just a lot about me - or perhaps about my attention span!)
- anyways she repeated her claim that it truly becomes His Body and Blood - truly.
- IT came from The Host he held up… This power… It was The Power…
The Kingship of God that came from It towards in, around me, within me. The King of Kings. It was Truly HIM! The Ultimate Complete Power… The Kingship of God is the best way I can describe It. It was Truly God Himself Present and it emulated from The Eucharist.
After The Mass I RAN down the choir loft steps to find this American woman who’d told me this was the case earlier in the day!
She was the only person still inside the Curch and was knelling in Prayer. I came up almost like a lunatic! I said: “Catherine! Listen! Listen! The Eucharist It’s-” She smiled so serenely and said “I know, isn’t it Beautiful”. But I hadn’t gotten the words out yet! I said:“No wait listen, The Eucharist-” again she says “Yes I know isn’t it wonderful”.
I finally raised my voice and said “NO really, listen!” So she quietly nodded for me to continue. I did. I said She was right, and that God let me know It was/is indeed HIM…"
She responded with: “Yes. I know. I prayed that you would see - isn’t it beautiful!”.
It is creation… becoming Creator.
It is Jesus’ words being absolutely true
- not a question of translations - even way back then shortly after His death and resurrection blasphemy and incorrect beliefs were floating around immediately. Human thoughts and ideas pertaining To and ABOUT God will surely be flawed. For as ‘we’ try to put it together in a way that makes sense to US, to You, to her, hyim, whomever, they may or may not be Truth.
But when The Holy Spirit shows us, en-lightens us, Teaches us (as Paul spoke of 2 or 3 Sunday readings ago) How Saint Paul learned from Jesus Himselfm, not by going and speaking with the Disciples even! He taught first by trhe knowledge given to him straight from God Himself - Later on meeting with a couple of thyem - Peter I think was one.
I am grateful that Catherine, one if not THEE most holy woman I have ever met in my life, a mentor-ee of THEE most holy Priest of God I have ever met, a Servant of Mary, prayed that I would see - and with a Pure Love for Mary, I was shown her Son in The Eucharist. For ME, Faith is remembering That Moment and a few others akin to this one where The Truth was absolutely known - and not allowing for my human mind to go “Nah that never happened, must have been tired, sleepy, imagined it or something!”
But no. It DID happen. Even Catherine who I saw later on often back home in America spoke of it with me and taught me many things about God and myself and sin and Life.
And The Eucharist is what makes Our Church The Church - I view Protestant Services the same as Prayer Meetings with Scripture.
But they are missing The Most Important Thing of ALL! Jesus Himself… and those that do have a monthly Communal Service place bread and juices in cups and such - if they happened to believe otherwise… they wouldn’t throw the crumbs, plates and cups which held it, in the trash - and without His Presence in a Tabernacle inside The Churches, then they are just buildings where prayers are said in, and prayers can and should be said everywhere and as often as possible!
But when He IS Present in Spirit AND Physically as well! Then WOW!
As He is in Every Catholic Church in the World!
it is just amazing how Great God Is!
Peace be with us all!
Mercy is highly (and sadly) under-rated
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Michael57
Guest
Great analogy.
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muffindell
Guest
How can Jesus be God? Jesus is the son of God.
Bread & wine are purely symbols of life. Jesus is saying eat and drink these, ‘Remember me’ when you eat and drink them and you will be nourished in what I have taught you. It’s all open to interpretation of the words, I actually think that the RC church has got it wrong.
I am banned from the table of god by mere mortals who decide that if you have remarried you are not welcome - forgiveness is truly present in the Catholic church. Perhaps they should practice what Jesus taught us and why he died on the cross, mainly to forgive all sins.
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JerryZ
Guest
Forgive all sins indeed! Does that mean that I can be forgiven and then go on my merry way committting the same sin?
To be forgiven I need to be repentant (SORRY) of having commited the sin.
If I divorce my wife or by my actions force her to divorce me and then I just flippantly go and commit adultery by “remarrying” someone else, how can I be sorry if after I confess my sin I go back home and continue in my behaviour?
NO you are not barred from the table by mere mortals but by GOD Himself.
Be truly sorry and MEND your actions to fulfill what Jesus commanded.
“Your sins are forgiven now, Go in peace and sin no more!”
Peace
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Tony_Lamonte
Guest
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Tony_Lamonte
Guest
Yes we do drink or eat the blood of Christ. The proscription in the old testament and even by the Apostles did not apply to the blood of Christ. The OT proscription had to do with the fact that eating the blood of animals would mean that one was imbibing the spirit of the animal and it is specifically set forth like that in the OT. The proscription by the Apostles had to do with participating in pagan sacrifices which violated the first commandment. The drinking of the blood of Christ does indeed have the effect of imbibing the Spirit of Christ who is none other than the Holy Spirit and makes us more like Christ himself.
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muffindell
Guest
Alas a typical answer of blind belief. My priest told me that I had no option but to divorce my wife after seeing what I had become from her being a serial adultress and carrying someone else’s child. I have not done anything wrong to repent with regards to this. My two children from our marriage live with me. I have moved on and married again after many years of soul searching and sadness. My wife and I also have a little girl who is baptised RC, but as it stands she will be brought up as a Christian but nothing more. My ex-wife re-married a few months after our divorce and divorced again a couple of years later. She has has been in and out of relationships ever since, some things don’t change.Forgive all sins indeed! Does that mean that I can be forgiven and then go on my merry way committting the same sin?
To be forgiven I need to be repentant (SORRY) of having commited the sin.
If I divorce my wife or by my actions force her to divorce me and then I just flippantly go and commit adultery by “remarrying” someone else, how can I be sorry if after I confess my sin I go back home and continue in my behaviour?
NO you are not barred from the table by mere mortals but by GOD Himself.
Be truly sorry and MEND your actions to fulfill what Jesus commanded.
“Your sins are forgiven now, Go in peace and sin no more!”
Peace
Where did God say that I was barred, it’s the RC church that have decided that. The words of Jesus “Your sins are forgiven now, Go in peace and sin no more!” do not apply in this particular case. I can find no resolve to the fact that I cannot join my church at it’s table. Cannon tribunal find no case to be heard, so that is a dead end. I look to see if our new pope has a new vision with regards to this problem in the RC church; until then I am an outcast of the RC church but not Christianity.
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Peebo
Guest
Unfortunately you fall into the same trap that all Protestants do…picking part of a verse to fit your interpretation…so what did Jesus say…THIS is my body…eat it…THIS is my blood…drink it…do THIS …in memory of me…you see …that is where I had my epiphany as a former Protestant many years ago…Jesus said DO THIS in memory of me…not do this IN MEMORY of me…I pray you may understand the truth in what he said…also if you read John 6: 52-71 you will read that even some of his disciples left him because they couldn’t accept what he was saying…he didn’t tell them he only meant it to be symbolic…and they had no doubt that he meant it in the literal sense…the church for 1500 years had no doubts neither…protestants have to deny the truth of the Eucharist…just as they have to deny the truth that Jesus called Peter ‘the rock’.upon who he would build his church…to admit either would mean admitting that the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Catholic Church like Jesus promised that he would…they would rather deny the truth of the Holy Spirit than admit they are wrong.
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