Ecclesia Dei Commission to meet tomorrow to discuss liberalization of the Latin Mass

[Unfinished]

Pax tecum!

Now just think…what if the pope said a Tridentine Rite High Mass on the High Altar at St. Peter’s Basilica for Midnight Mass this Christmas as the way to introduce the motu proprio!
Wishful thinking, I know.

In Christ,
Rand

I would cry.
.
.
.
.
.
Tears of joy.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

I would cry.
.
.
.
.
.
Tears of joy.

My Good God…A papal Tridentine Mass would be beyond perfect.

I would join you in those happy tears.

 

[mcliffor]

My Good God…A papal Tridentine Mass would be beyond perfect.

I would join you in those happy tears.

I don’t think that’s even possible. The old Papal Masses were filled with so much ceremony related to the Popes temporal power, (the sedia gestatoria, trumpet fanfares, tiaras, flabella) that the Pope could just ressurect the 1962 version of the papal Mass. He’s have to purge it of all the royal ceremony first.

I’m sure the Pope could whip something up if he wanted to, though I doubt he does. I would be an awesome gesture though, and would

 

[demerzel85]

I don’t think that’s even possible. The old Papal Masses were filled with so much ceremony related to the Popes temporal power, (the sedia gestatoria, trumpet fanfares, tiaras, flabella) that the Pope could just ressurect the 1962 version of the papal Mass. He’s have to purge it of all the royal ceremony first.

I’m sure the Pope could whip something up if he wanted to, though I doubt he does. I would be an awesome gesture though, and would

Well it can start with the Pontifical Low Mass first Piero would need time to go through the papal stores to find the sedia gestatoria

 

[Marilena]

so what was the decision?

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

I don’t think that’s even possible. The old Papal Masses were filled with so much ceremony related to the Popes temporal power, (the sedia gestatoria, trumpet fanfares, tiaras, flabella) that the Pope could just ressurect the 1962 version of the papal Mass. He’s have to purge it of all the royal ceremony first.

I’m sure the Pope could whip something up if he wanted to, though I doubt he does. I would be an awesome gesture though, and would

Why?

All of the ceremony you mentioned doesnt need to be filtered out. It is appropriate to treat our Pope in such a way.

I was hoping against hope that Benedict would don the Papal Tiara at his inaguration…oh well.

The Papal Solemn Mass should come back in full swing…if only once a year (on the feast of Peter and Paul for example)
Id still be happy with that.

But altering tradition to restore tradition sounds fishy to me.

Either way, like somone said, even a Papal Low Mass would satisfy me for now

 

[mcliffor]

Why?

All of the ceremony you mentioned doesnt need to be filtered out. It is appropriate to treat our Pope in such a way.

I was hoping against hope that Benedict would don the Papal Tiara at his inaguration…oh well.

The Papal Solemn Mass should come back in full swing…if only once a year (on the feast of Peter and Paul for example)
Id still be happy with that.

But altering tradition to restore tradition sounds fishy to me.

Either way, like somone said, even a Papal Low Mass would satisfy me for now

I don’t necessarily disagree with it, but the Pope seems to have made the pretty concrete decision to drop even the symbolism of the Papal Tiara (he removed it from his coat of arms and discontinued the tradition of crowning the statue of St. Peter in the basilica) and told his pole bearers that their duties would never again include carrying the sedia gestatoria, only the papal coffin.

 

[AJV]

Why?

All of the ceremony you mentioned doesnt need to be filtered out. It is appropriate to treat our Pope in such a way.

Because now it will be counter-productive. While those symbols evoked awe and respect in another time, nowadays they are looked on very differently. It may warm your’s and my heart to see Pope Benedict carried in with trumpets and tiara, but it would not be interpreted correctly by many.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Because now it will be counter-productive. While those symbols evoked awe and respect in another time, nowadays they are looked on very differently. It may warm your’s and my heart to see Pope Benedict carried in with trumpets and tiara, but it would not be interpreted correctly by many.

Isnt that why we loss the Latin mass in the first place? To please the world…

oh well…this isnt a VII thread anyway.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Isnt that why we loss the Latin mass in the first place? To please the world…

No. The Church has never been interested in pleasing the world. She’s interested in casting her net into the deep waters and doing what the Savior commanded her to do: fish for souls.
She doesn’t exist for herself.

 

[mcliffor]

From the Rorate Coeli blog:
"
On this Wednesday’s edition of Il Giornale, Andrea Tornielli confirms the words provided by Cardinal Medina on the content of the plenary meeting of the Ecclesia Dei commission, reported **here **yesterday, and adds some new information:

…

In the order of the day for the meeting was also a discussion on the juridical framework in which to place the Lefebvrists after their readmission into full communion with the Holy See.

The debated questions were, thus, two. …

Benedict XVI intends to extend the indult of his predecessor, in fact withdrawing from the bishops discretionary power on the matter: the Missal of Saint Pius V is no longer abolished, and even if the ordinary Roman Rite is that originated from the post-conciliar liturgical reform, the old one – used by centuries in the Church – can subsist as an “extraordinary rite”.

The bishops, therefore, will not be able to deny the ancient mass anymore, but only regulate its eventual celebration, together with the parish priests, harmonising it with the need of the community. The corrections included would have reduced from 50 to 30 the minimal number of faithful who ask for the celebration according to the old rite. As for the readmission of the Lefebvrists, once the rite of Saint Pius V is liberalized, the deal should be easier."

 

[mcliffor]

Now doesn’t this mean that if 30 people ask for the TLM, the bishop can still put them in a mausoleum, out of the way, and give it to them one a month? As long as the bishops have the power to control its celebration, they can keep it from flourishing. In my diocese, we have an fssp chapel that’s out of the way. Even with this indult, we wouldn’t see anymore public celebrations of the Latin mass. He couls tell us we already have it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Benedict XVI intends to extend the indult of his predecessor, in fact withdrawing from the bishops discretionary power on the matter: the Missal of Saint Pius V is no longer abolished, and even if the ordinary Roman Rite is that originated from the post-conciliar liturgical reform, the old one – used by centuries in the Church – can subsist as an “extraordinary rite”.

Congratulations to those who desire the Missal of St. Pius V. You will shortly have your hearts’ greatest desire. Let us pray that this will put some of the discordance in the Church to rest.

 

[Unfinished]

Now doesn’t this mean that if 30 people ask for the TLM, the bishop can still put them in a mausoleum, out of the way, and give it to them one a month? As long as the bishops have the power to control its celebration, they can keep it from flourishing. In my diocese, we have an fssp chapel that’s out of the way. Even with this indult, we wouldn’t see anymore public celebrations of the Latin mass. He couls tell us we already have it.

Perhaps. But they can’t say “no.”

We will have to wait until more information comes out. Every time a rumor pops up it shows me how in control Pope Benedit is. I think he knows what he is doing. He is putting all his ducks in a row.

Edit: Maybe it is 30 people PER PARISH? Then if possible they must celebrate it there? That is probably getting my hopes up.

 

[AJV]

Isnt that why we loss the Latin mass in the first place? To please the world…

oh well…this isnt a VII thread anyway.

I would opinion that the Mass and the temporal trappings of the Papacy are 2 entirely different things.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Now doesn’t this mean that if 30 people ask for the TLM, the bishop can still put them in a mausoleum, out of the way, and give it to them one a month? As long as the bishops have the power to control its celebration, they can keep it from flourishing. In my diocese, we have an fssp chapel that’s out of the way. Even with this indult, we wouldn’t see anymore public celebrations of the Latin mass. He couls tell us we already have it.

I rather think that what the pope is hoping for (mind you, he hasn’t phoned lately) is that this will happen in the context of regular parishes (ie, the 8:00 Mass or the 12:00 Sunday mass will be the old Missal).

I hope my bishop will do this. There are less than 100 people who attend the SSPX chapel here, but that’s 100 souls the bishop should be seeking.

 

[Unfinished]

I hope my bishop will do this. There are less than 100 people who attend the SSPX chapel here, but that’s 100 souls the bishop should be seeking.

Amen. I completely agree.

A lot of people around here, even priests, have a strong HATE of the Traditional Latin Mass. (I don’t understand it. If you don’t like it, don’t celebrate it?)

But in the grander scheme of things, freeing the Latin Mass and uniting the SSPX could save tens of thousands of souls.

 

[mcliffor]

I rather think that what the pope is hoping for (mind you, he hasn’t phoned lately) is that this will happen in the context of regular parishes (ie, the 8:00 Mass or the 12:00 Sunday mass will be the old Missal).

I hope my bishop will do this. There are less than 100 people who attend the SSPX chapel here, but that’s 100 souls the bishop should be seeking.

So theoretically speaking, I could find thirty people in my 800 family parish who want the Latin Mass there and then the Bishop and Pastor would have to provide it?

As nice as that is, I think our more liberal bishops might find a way of getting around that (ie. you get one Mass a week, on Saturdays at 3 pm.) Of course, it’s nice to see that the laity are being taken into consideration. If the MP simply “liberalized” the Mass, we’d still have to convince our parish priests to say it for us, which they wouldn’t unless they had to.

 

[mcliffor]

I heard a priest in a sermon mention once how there are many bishops who will bend over backwards to make sure the hindus in their diocese are happy and the traditionalists are miserable.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

So theoretically speaking, I could find thirty people in my 800 family parish who want the Latin Mass there and then the Bishop and Pastor would have to provide it?

As nice as that is, I think our more liberal bishops might find a way of getting around that (ie. you get one Mass a week, on Saturdays at 3 pm.) Of course, it’s nice to see that the laity are being taken into consideration. If the MP simply “liberalized” the Mass, we’d still have to convince our parish priests to say it for us, which they wouldn’t unless they had to.

Actually, I’m not sure how it would work. Would your priest KNOW how to offer it? Maybe seperate parishes would be best, along the lines of ethnic parishes or parishes of different rites along side the Latin rite Pauline parishes.