Ecumenical Dialogue

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Michael16:
  • What we can agree on.
  • How can we support each other in an increasingly paganized world that’s hostile to Christianity?
The danger is not just that the pagans will overcome us, but that we might gradually become pagans, without realizing it. That’s what happened with the majority of Protestantism. That’s what they want to share with us.
I read this to say the majority of Protestants have become pagans. Somehow I am misinterpreting it.
 
Okay. So we approach conservative Protestant groups then as the most effective means?
 
I don’t have stats and I’m too lazy to go looking, but nearly every non-Catholic congregation in my area has a rainbow flag attached to it’s edifice except non-denominational Christians with congregations in shopping malls. I actually make it a point to look when I go by one and I invariably find it. Many mainline protestant congregations have female priests and ministers, often homosexual, often “married”.
 
And they are sometimes much more formed than Catholics are because even if they don’t contain the whole deposit of faith, they do well with what they do have by studying the written Word.
This is a very good point, and something to appreciate and build on.

The overwhelming majority of persons joining the Church through RCIA are not pagans or disbelievers. They are joining the Church from Protestant denominations. They typically bring excellent habits of studying the Word of God, and well-developed tithing practices with them. They often bring great habits of sharing their love of Christ with this around them, as well.

As such, there are MANY more similarities than differences, and candidates can be made to feel more welcome and accepted by highlighting these similarities.

Whenever beginning a new class of RCIA - I start with a diagram of the continuum of Christianity, and plot on the line where each denomination falls, and show how close they are to the fullness of faith, the Catholic Church.

After demonstrating how close the candidates are, I tackle the most common misconceptions that Protestants have in the next two sessions: Worshipping Mary, praying to saints instead of Jesus, and the confusion many have around the Real Presence.

By showing how close we are at the start of their journey, coupled with correcting their burning misconceptions right away; I find candidates more at ease, more receptive to being formed, and generally more positive about their experience going forward.

By the way, the continued splintering of Protestant denominations over gay weddings, gay ministers, and the like is driving them to the Church with greater speed and in larger numbers.

Let us pray that all might be One,
Deacon Christopher
 
Holy Mother pray for us!

I thought it was just the liberal wings of mainline Protestantism.
 
I don’t want to dialogue with heretics and infidels. Is that why we are here?
 
Diaconia, I didn’t know. Thank you for your post and I feel encouraged with what you shared. I withdraw my interest in ecumenical dialogue.
 
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It may well be, like I said I don’t have stats, and I live in a particularly “prideful” area, but it’s clear the majority are headed there. And there is a bright side, as Deacon Christopher noted, it’s driving those who want orthodoxy into the Church. It’s also driving them to Eastern Orthodoxy, though that’s probably more to do with the crisis the Church is having. The sooner we get another St. Peter Damian the better.
 
My post was admittedly unclear. We can’t judge individuals, many of whom anyway disagree with denomination headquarters.
 
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I don’t want to dialogue with heretics and infidels. Is that why we are here?
If this is the way most Catholics feel it may be worthwhile to lobby CAF to cancel the Non-Catholic forum.

Certainly the fact that Jesus dialogued with heretics and infidels helped get him killed.
 
Probably should.
I was on a Muslim forum and got banned just for questioning the prophet.
 
Pope Benedict XVI gave us a warning about this…

“The risen Lord instructed his apostles, and through them his disciples in all ages, to take his word to the ends of the earth and to make disciples of all people,” retired Pope Benedict wrote. “‘But does that still apply?’ many inside and outside the church ask themselves today. ‘Is mission still something for today? Would it not be more appropriate to meet in dialogue among religions and serve together the cause of world peace?’ The counter-question is: ‘Can dialogue substitute for mission?’

“In fact, many today think religions should respect each other and, in their dialogue, become a common force for peace. According to this way of thinking, it is usually taken for granted that different religions are variants of one and the same reality,” the retired pope wrote. “The question of truth, that which originally motivated Christians more than any other, is here put inside parentheses. It is assumed that the authentic truth about God is in the last analysis unreachable and that at best one can represent the ineffable with a variety of symbols. This renunciation of truth seems realistic and useful for peace among religions in the world.

“It is nevertheless lethal to faith. In fact, faith loses its binding character and its seriousness, everything is reduced to interchangeable symbols, capable of referring only distantly to the inaccessible mystery of the divine,” he wrote.
 
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What we can agree on.
Thanks for this thread @Michael16. As a Reformed Protestant, I am thankful for your kindness and charity. I’ll start with a couple of simple - and very important - things we agree with you upon: the Nicene and Apostles creeds.
 
I may borrow this for another thread. 😃

Somehow, bibles in dentists offices has moved on to evangelizing Jews or just dialoguing with them.
 
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No need to withdraw your interest in ecumenism, it is something important for the Church to be involved in.

There is a great variety in meaning of the word “ecumenism” among different Catholics.

Jesus absolutely wants all people to join the Church He started. Evangelizing Protestants is typically easier than non-believers or those who belong to other world religions (Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.).

But Protestants respond to different approaches, depending upon not only their own denomination, but also upon how closely and individual Protestant adheres to said teachings.

For example, there are many Episcopalians who believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Lutherans believe in the sacraments of Baptism and Eucharist (albeit in a lesser way). Baptists don’t believe in any sacraments at all. And so on.

So, our ecumenical engagement of different denominations is best tailored to those needs.

The Gospel is to be proclaimed (and taught, explained) to all people, heretics and infidels included. They are less likely to be receptive than our brothers and sisters in Christ who belong to Protestant denominations.

Jesus said, “I have come to call sinners, not the self-righteous.”
Deacon Christopher
 
Pope Benedict XVI gave us a warning about this…

https://www.catholicworldreport.com...t-xvi-dialogue-cannot-substitute-for-mission/
“The risen Lord instructed his apostles, and through them his disciples in all ages, to take his word to the ends of the earth and to make disciples of all people,” retired Pope Benedict wrote. “‘But does that still apply?’ many inside and outside the church ask themselves today. ‘Is mission still something for today? Would it not be more appropriate to meet in dialogue among religions and serve together the cause of world peace?’ The counter-question is: ‘Can dialogue substitute for mission?’

“In fact, many today think religions should respect each other and, in their dialogue, become a common force for peace. According to this way of thinking, it is usually taken for granted that different religions are variants of one and the same reality,” the retired pope wrote. “The question of truth, that which originally motivated Christians more than any other, is here put inside parentheses. It is assumed that the authentic truth about God is in the last analysis unreachable and that at best one can represent the ineffable with a variety of symbols. This renunciation of truth seems realistic and useful for peace among religions in the world.

“It is nevertheless lethal to faith. In fact, faith loses its binding character and its seriousness, everything is reduced to interchangeable symbols, capable of referring only distantly to the inaccessible mystery of the divine,” he wrote.
Obviously Pope Francis does not agree with him. Two Vicars of Christ with differing ideas of what Christ taught?
 
Thank you for posting this, yankeesouth. I was driving in my car this morning listening to Metallica’s “ … And Justice For All “ album and something struck me as I heard the line: “ … fighting so grim, so true, so real… “ That we’re in a fight to the death with the devil. That our society, supposedly a Christian society; advocates many things contrary to the Gospel.

Gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion and the destruction of the family and traditional gender roles. Even the pagan Romans and Greeks didn’t have gay marriage and yet a supposedly Christian society does?

That the devil and his fellow travelers are leading our society to perdition.

So, with what the Holy Father Emeritus and Diaconia said; I’m refreshed and renewed for combat.

We must engage in mission and not back down, for the sake of a well intended but false ecumenism; from the fact that we as a Church possess the full and unadulterated truth and preach it to the nations in word and deed.
 
Thank you, Diaconia. I’d like to hear your suggestions; here and in PM. If you have the time.
 
Our society has made a religion out of “getting along” in order to protect the god of the ego. It’s safer for our inner pride to speak agreeably and not be confrontational to people who disagree with us than it is to speak the truth in love, and be prepared to turn the other cheek if they insult us. That doesn’t mean we have to be insulting to others, of course.

Our narcissistic culture wants us think life is meant to be a joyride, but it’s really a battle. We’re here to do our part in the role God created us to fulfill to bring all creation back to Him. Now, that may involve ecumenical activities, but the primary purpose is to bring all people back to God.

Most of us have been wrongly taught that fighting is bad; that it is an evil in and of itself. When combined with the modernist idea that there is no absolute central truth, and everyone’s opinion is as valid as another, we come to see the recipe Satan has concocted to get us to “play nice”, which is really rolling over and playing dead.

I try to remember, in any interaction, to ask myself if I’m trying to bring the other person closer to God, or am I trying to entertain myself with my own talking and puff up my ego. The honest answer to that questions helps me see if I’m behaving rightly or not.
 
You do realize the majority of Protestantism is still pro-life right?
 
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