Ecumenical Dialogue

[Eric_Hyom]

Obviously, they aren’t Christians as they aren’t baptized. I wonder how these people are to be addressed in ecumania ecuminism.

Muslims and Hindus are not Christian, but the same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. We now have an interfaith group in our town; that strives to work together for the common good.

 

[Gab123]

I also remember hearing a priest say that you guys are experiencing a loss rate similar to that we are. That’s sad.

In Latin America there is a huge push to proselytize Catholics out of the Catholic Church by a plethora of Protestant evangelical sects. This in turn has given rise to a movement within the Catholic Church in Latin Smerica in apologetics to defend Catholic teaching. Interestingly the late Fr. Flaviano Amatulli, an Italian priest whose life work was to catechize and teach apologetics to Mexican Catholics, has had a huge impact on all of the Spanish speaking Catholics, America; today one of his protégés Fr. Luis Toro has taken Latin America by storm through his travels and YouTube videos bringing back hundreds of thousands of fallen away Catholics back to the fold via direct and impressive debates with Protestant pastors who cannot refute him, using the Bible alone as proof for the Catholic faith.

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

Interestingly, I just happened to watch him a few days ago.

 

[ATraveller]

From an LCMS pastor:

Look at the way certain politicians go after judicial nominees who are devout Catholics. When Judge Amy Coney Barrett came up for Senate confirmation to a federal appeals court, she was grilled on her religious views. Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) seemed worried that she might be an orthodox Catholic, and Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) cast about for eloquence with a now-famously weird comment, to wit: “The dogma lives loudly within you, and that’s a concern.”

In Eureka, California, a Catholic hospital is being sued by the ACLU for refusing to allow a surgeon to perform a transgender operation there. And there always seems to be new news about Catholic adoption agencies forced out of business because they won’t violate their conscience by assigning kids to same-sex couples. These events don’t seem to be slowing down in frequency, and the degree of animosity directed at Catholics these days is (rightly, I think) forcing us to reconsider some of our old prejudices.

Conservative Lutherans will still have occasion to recall our significant theological differences with Catholicism. Compromise on theological issues is not an option, no matter the consequences. But as our common enemies grow in strength and hostility, we must also stand firm with Catholics on the ground that we share. As allies in the culture wars, we can and ought to stand, where we can, with our Catholic brothers and sisters. They are integral to the fight for public morality in America. In fact, if the Church of Rome ever caves on abortion or same-sex marriage, or if it is ever silenced on issues that are important to us and with which we agree, it will get a lot lonelier — and quieter — at the pro-life marches and pro-family rallies.

https://blogs.lcms.org/2019/from-throwing-rocks-to-linking-arms/

On an unrelated note, regarding the first two paragraphs, someone kept interrogating me for pointing that out on a different part of CAF. Odd how we non-Catholics who aren’t affected like many Catholics are can see the obvious hostilities aimed at Catholics.

 

[Peeps]

What you said about the majority of Protestantism becoming pagan I think is a very good one. I find it sad that they went the way they did. How can a community call itself Christian when they officiate gay “ marriages. “

Many Protestants do not condone gay “marriage.” Most of the Evangelical Protestant denominations do not condone this. Even a few of the Mainlines have resisted performing gay “weddings” and have remained faithful to their Statements of Faith that call homosexual sex “sin.”

 

[commenter]

Michael16:

What you said about the majority of Protestantism becoming pagan I think is a very good one. I find it sad that they went the way they did. How can a community call itself Christian when they officiate gay “ marriages. “

Many Protestants do not condone gay “marriage.” Most of the Evangelical Protestant denominations do not condone this. Even a few of the Mainlines have resisted performing gay “weddings” and have remained faithful to their Statements of Faith that call homosexual sex “sin.”

Chesterton wrote that people now don’t disagree so much about what they call sin, but about which sins they call excusable.

 

[GKMotley]

Chesterton wrote that people now don’t disagree so much about what they call sin, but about which sins they call excusable.

• Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable.
  • Illustrated London News (23 October 1909). Collected in G.K. CHESTERTON, COLLECTED WORKS, , vol. XXVIII, p. 413.

 

[lanman87]

I don’t have stats and I’m too lazy to go looking, but nearly every non-Catholic congregation in my area has a rainbow flag attached to it’s edifice except non-denominational Christians with congregations in shopping malls. I actually make it a point to look when I go by one and I invariably find it. Many mainline protestant congregations have female priests and ministers, often homosexual, often “married”.

I think this depends on where you are located. Here in the American South, Evangelical Christianity is decidedly pro-Traditional marriage and pro-life. There may be a church here or there as you describe but for every one “rainbow” church there are dozens of pro-traditional marriage churches and pro-life churches.

We have a local pro-life women’s resource center that helps pregnant women who are in a crisis situation when they keep their child. This ministry is funded and ran by Evangelical churches in the area. Usually, around the anniversary of Roe v Wade one of our local churches puts up hundreds of small white crosses in a field next to the church to represent all the children who were aborted in our State the previous year.

I know churches in the area have also re-worded the church bi-laws to protect the church against a lawsuit if someone ask for a same sex wedding.

Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Presbyterian Churches of America, Church of Christ, most Non-Denom Pentecostal churches, most Non-Denom Reformed churches, and even many United Methodist churches (they will probably split over the issues in the coming years) are still holding the pro-life, pro-traditional marriage banner.

In my area those different groups make up at least 80% of the church going population.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Many Protestants do not condone gay “marriage.”

Muslim don’t condone gay marriage either.

If we are truthfully looking for ecumenical dialogue, we should search for a greatest meaning of “One God”. The same God hears all our prayers despite our differences, and you will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

 

[commenter]

Peeps:

Many Protestants do not condone gay “marriage.”

Muslim don’t condone gay marriage either.

If we are truthfully looking for ecumenical dialogue, we should search for a greatest meaning of “One God”. The same God hears all our prayers despite our differences, and you will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

What you are describing is inter religious dialogue. This is important, but different from Ecumenism.

 

[steve-b]

I had an interesting thought and I’m starting a thread on that.

The thought being: Are we actually being ecumenical in arguing over our differences and disputing, at times meanly; the various positions? I feel like we’re just going round and round and going nowhere.

So: Let’s lift our heads out of the theological trenches and take a frank look at two things:

1. What we can agree on.
2. How can we support each other in an increasingly paganized world that’s hostile to Christianity?

Something I remembered: The Holy Father Pope Francis went to his old bishopric Buenos Aires on an ecumenical visit to a Protestant church. During the visit, the Holy Father asked the pastor to pray for him. Which blew my mind in a good way and led me to a greater respect for the man.

I also remember hearing a priest say that you guys are experiencing a loss rate similar to that we are. That’s sad.

All we can do in dialogue, is give information, and leave the door open or just ajar, for possible converts / reverts. The results / successes, of this, only God knows

 

[catholic03]

I hope this is a joke. If you look at the other pages, you would find it hard to believe that any pagan would worship so ridiculously.

Is this really ELCA.

 

[ReaderT]

I hope this is a joke. If you look at the other pages, you would find it hard to believe that any pagan would worship so ridiculously.

Is this really ELCA.

I wish it was a joke, but it’s real. They also have a “goddess rosary” (replacing the Crucifix with a stone age goddess idol). Here are the goddesses they painted in 2018:

“2018 Goddesses:
January: Cerridwen, Celtic goddess of the cauldron of transformation
February: Wakahiru-Me, Japanese goddess of the morning sun
March: Butterfly Maiden, Native American Spring goddess
April: Hina, Hawaiian Moon goddess
May: Hathor, Ancient Egyptian goddess of childbirth and beauty
June: Tree Goddess
July: Minoan Snake Goddess
August: Mami Wata, African ocean goddess
September: Arianrhod, Welsh/Celtic goddess of weaving cosmic time
October: Hecate, Greek goddess of the crossroads of life and death
November: second Sunday of the month Willendorf, Neolithic Mother goddess
December: Guadalupe, Patroness of the Americas”

 

[catholic03]

I spent about 30 minutes looking at their page. I find this unbelievable. Not even the Unitarian Universalists would do this surely? I had some respect for the liturgy of mainline Protestants but if this Church is allowed to do this by the ELCA then I don’t know what to say.

A concerned ELCA Lutheran wrote a page of this Church and said when they visited that they used their own bible that was translated to call God a ‘divine feminine’. This is worrying. Here in New Zealand, mainline Protestants are liberal but not that liberal. I wonder what Luther would think of his Church allowing this worship…he had very major faults but I feel he would agree with Catholics on this!

 

[ReaderT]

I spent about 30 minutes looking at their page. I find this unbelievable. Not even the Unitarian Universalists would do this surely? I had some respect for the liturgy of mainline Protestants but if this Church is allowed to do this by the ELCA then I don’t know what to say.

I went to a Unitarian Universalist church (for about 10 minutes) - I left when I saw the banners with Buddha and the (Taoist) Ying-Yang symbols…

Here in New Zealand, mainline Protestants are liberal but not that liberal. I wonder what Luther would think of his Church allowing this worship…he had very major faults but I feel he would agree with Catholics on this!

You’re right, Luther definitely didn’t go “that far” - at the same time, he used his own judgement to pick which books went in the German Bible translation. When you have that mindset ("My opinion weighs more than 1,500 years of Christianity), the eventual logical outcome is that “herchurch” group.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

The op topic involves an Ecumenical Dialogue. The social issues you addressed by various community members of diverse faith’s is to be commended. These actions do not address an ecumenical dialogue that can address each participant’s diverse faith, but displays a conviction that all self proclaimed Christians are to follow. Thus it is by the universal golden rule by Christian teachings of loving thy neighbor which calls all peoples of faith to practice. Those participants in such community pro- active social issues can lead to discussions of reconciliation.

The true ecumenical dialogue cannot begin between Catholics and Protestants and or non-catholic Christians. The discussion between the latter mentioned above, must involve reconciliation. The street ministries and social issues being addressed in community appears to never reach any ecumenical dialogue.

There is hope for discussions of reconciliation between the aforementioned groups, when the efforts they work to accomplish becomes threatened by outside political and present day culture attacks against their common faith practices.

 

[De_Maria]

I think this depends on where you are located. Here in the American South, Evangelical Christianity is decidedly pro-Traditional marriage and pro-life. …

Why should it matter where you are located? Does the Bible say something different in the North than in the South?

The problem here is not the location of the Bible. The problem comes from two ideas that stem from the Protestant Revolution.

1. Private interpretation of Scripture.
2. Scripture as the sole rule of faith.

Both ideas erode and in some cases annihilate the authority of the Church and the authority of the Traditions of Jesus Christ.

 

[lanman87]

Why should it matter where you are located? Does the Bible say something different in the North than in the South?

All I’m doing is pointing out that the demographics in the Southern United States are different from the rest of the country. Especially the north east and the north west. The southern states are predominately American Evangelical and therefore predominately pro-life and pro-traditional marriage. There aren’t as many “rainbow” churches and the few that exist a very small portion of the “religious” in the South.

That is not to say that there aren’t pro-life and pro-marriage Evangelicals in other parts of the country. There certainly are evangelicals in those areas. However, they tend to be the minority and don’t have as much influence on the culture as a whole.

I would think that a Catholic would be glad to have allies in the pro-life and pro-traditional marriage movements.

 

[De_Maria]

I would think that a Catholic would be glad to have allies in the pro-life and pro-traditional marriage movements.

I am. I am just highlighting this as proof that sola scriptura and right to private interpretation of Scripture, are false doctrines.

Thanks for replying.

 

[TULIPed]

So: Let’s lift our heads out of the theological trenches and take a frank look at two things:

1. What we can agree on.
2. How can we support each other in an increasingly paganized world that’s hostile to Christianity?

Thanks for the proof. But what do you think about what the OP suggested we focus on in this thread?