Ecumenism with Lutherans

[on_the_hill]

Or maybe we can burn them at the stake. Hey, it worked before, right? Right?

 

[AlNg]

I have seen EO say Catholics are without grace, heretics, and hellbound. I have seen them say the papacy is antichrist and the pope is satanic. I have heard them say the RCC is the whore of Babylon. I have seen EO be every bit as anti-catholic as the KKK or fundamentalist Protestant.

I wasn’t lying when I said I’ve seen vicious, fanatical, rabid anti-Catholicism among some EO.

Why do you think that some EO are anti-Catholic? Have you read about the concentration camp of Jasenovac and the Ustase in Croatia?

 

[Wannano]

Or maybe we can burn them at the stake. Hey, it worked before, right? Right?

Who is “we”?

Abcdefgh

 

[AlNg]

Or maybe we can burn them at the stake.

I personally would oppose burning someone at the stake. I don’t see it as very charitable to torture someone by burning him or her alive. I don’t know how Christians ever supported this incredibly cruel policy of burning people at the stake.

 

[josh987654321]

Unification may not happen in my lifetime but it would be nice if our denominations could move closer together.

I agree, but it can’t be at the expense of truth.

Reunification would be helped if a number of Protestant denominations are united.

For example, the Real Presence. Many don’t believe in it at all.

Exactly.

Though Calvinism and Lutheranism do differ from Catholicism on that, those two could be described as variations instead of an outright rejection of the Real Presence.

But then they have other major flaws too, and if they are really so close, then why don’t they convert to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?

What I think most posters fear, especially in regards to this 500th anniversary fiasco, is the jettisoning of the truth of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in different ways in order to make some kind of crap heretical compromise.

Or maybe I’m too optimistic.

I believe there is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and any other is a split from the one true Church, so I’ll always want to bring our Protestant brothers and sisters (like yourself) closer together with us, but it’s with the ultimate goal in mind of ‘conversion’ back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, with real unity, rather than a fake unity which robs people of the truth.

And any kind of fake unity, is robbing us of the true unity Christ intends for His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

God Bless You ATraveller

Thank you for reading

 

[josh987654321]

Trolls like kinghenry17 aren’t hiding under rocks anymore. They’re attacking people in broad daylight without any consequence.

I don’t believe kinghenry17 is a troll, I think they are riled up over what’s happening with things like the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther fiasco, and I think in opposing it he goes a bit too far when he paints Protestants with a single brush.

Since there are many Protestants who are doing excellent work (better than Catholics in some regards) but the main point is that they are schismed from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, so we should pray and work for their further conversion. Not commemorate a schismatic like Martin Luther which creates Scandal and a false unity and a false peace.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[ATraveller]

fake unity

I definitely don’t want that.
I also want more than a coalition of convenience in face of a hostile secular militant force.
At the very least, I want the petty name calling on both sides to stop.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Book? Obviously then you don’t even know what From Conflict to Communion is.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Fiasco? Very from far that indeed.

It has been a tremendous and historic occasion for Catholics, Lutherans, and beyond. A great triumph and the fruit of many years of effort.

 

[josh987654321]

I definitely don’t want that.

Me neither, it’s not right on either of us.

I also want more than a coalition of convenience in face of a hostile secular militant force.

Me too, and I’m definitely with you and I respect you very much from many of the posts I have read from you. But I’ll also pray and hope that one day you may find your way into full communion with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I hate what’s happened with this 500th anniversary of Martin Luther, because I feel it robs us. It’s like cheating and then saying one got an A+, in the same way, it’s a false sense of unity in regards to what I consider to be a schismatic and a heretic Martin Luther and then proclaiming unity.

When I learned about Martin Luther, he trashed transubstantiation in his 95 theses among a whole range of other things we hold today with no apologies, and just because the Church was corrupt at the time in regards to indulgences, doesn’t mean he could create his own Church just like my disagreement with the corruption in the Church in certain regards today doesn’t mean I can create my own Church.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[JamalChristophr]

I wonder if we should not start with what we have in common with Lutherans and work from there.

 

[josh987654321]

I wonder if we should not start with what we have in common with Lutherans and work from there.

When teaching mathematics or anything else, do we say “Lets start with what we both know and agree on and work from there?” how can you work on what you both know and are in agreement on? instead you start with what they are struggling with and try to tackle that.

A race driver does not practice over and over the corners he can do and not the rest, otherwise he is sure to lose the race, because sooner or later he is going to have to take the corner he is struggling with and it does him no favors to focus on the corners he is already good at.

You can’t work with someone or make progress with someone by focusing on things you both agree on and ignoring that which you don’t.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[josh987654321]

It has been a tremendous and historic occasion for Catholics, Lutherans, and beyond. A great triumph and the fruit of many years of effort.

Simply proclaiming ‘triumph’ does not make it so. What are your thoughts on Martin Luther? Is he a saint? because the ones you commemorated it with think he is a saint. Do you think it was wrong for Martin Luther to break away from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and create his own? because the ones you commemorated it with think he did the right thing.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading.

 

[JamalChristophr]

I think firstly a relationship has to be fostered that is charitable, otherwise dialogue tends to be fruitless. Starting from shared beliefs and working outward from there is the best path in my opinion. It’s a given that differences cannot be simply ignored but there is a timeliness in dialogue that cannot be ignored either.

We need to examine how charitable we are in practice to our separated brethren, seems to me.

I don’t know many Lutherans, but I venture that many do not have an anti-catholic prejudice. For many, it is simply the faith they were raised in.

 

[josh987654321]

I think firstly a relationship has to be fostered that is charitable, otherwise dialogue tends to be fruitless.

I agree.

Starting from shared beliefs and working outward from there is the best path in my opinion.

This 500th anniversary commemoration does not do that, it’s scandalous in the extreme.

We need to examine how charitable we are in practice to our separated brethren, seems to me.

I agree, but the Pope commemorating Martin Luther is at best dishonest to our separated brethren. Because we think what Martin Luther did was wrong and he is certainly not to be held up as an example to follow as our separated brothers and sisters believe.

I don’t know many Lutherans

I think JonNC on these forums is one, and he has some really good posts I think.

but I venture that many do not have an anti-catholic prejudice.

If they are celebrating Martin Luther, then they do.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It is hardly proclaiming that makes it so. It is the reality that the Church has now lived.

It was the work, especially, of Pope Saint John Paul II and of Pope Benedict. The preparations for this anniversary began years ago, under Benedict, who made a pilgrimage to Erfurt.

The Church in Australia was very much part of it all – because this initiative derives from the ecumenical movement which the College of Bishops acknowledges as a divine imperative. Whether any given individual member of the laity participates or nor is utterly insignificant…except in so far as such persons sets themselves against the shepherd of their diocese.

http://50500.lca.org.au/whatson/reformation-500-joint-catholic-lutheran-service-commemoration/

 

[graciew]

Welcome back,Father!
So good to read you again.!

 

[Don_Ruggero]

No…it is not “the Pope commemorating”…it is the Church commemorating.

And, no, it is not “we think”…that is decided by the hierarchy. And the position of the Church has been articulated quite well in From Conflict to Communion.

 

[josh987654321]

From Conflict to Communion.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

You’re talking about the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther? What communion? It’s fake.

You also didn’t answer my previous question. Do you think it was wrong for Martin Luther to break away from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and create his own? because the ones you commemorated it with think he did the right thing. How about transubstantiation?

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I’ve only just stopped in while in the midst of the commemorations for yesterday’s anniversary – which have residuals this morning still on-going; I rather imagined the anniversary would be a topic discussed here.

I could never have imagined 50 years ago how far we would progress in 50 years. It is truly a wonder to behold. I think of the incredible work of so many across these 50 years.

I can certainly see that the moderators of the old forum are well and truly missed in this new forum. It certainly is unpleasant to the eyes. I would describe it as painful for the eyes after a very few minutes, actually.