"Ecumenism"?

[Stephen168]

If Paul Palmieri decided we wanted to work on latter-day-saint unity, he would talk to Thomas S. Monson. You would not have to leave the pew, because you do not represent the brighamite branch of the lds movement.
jane_doe;13718488:

False.

Please, if you want to help, then help.

When I tell you something that is true and you say it is false. I conclude you don’t want to understand. You don’t what help.

But maybe you actually don’t know latter-day-saint history. Maybe you don’t know the movement broke into pieces upon the death of Joseph Smith. Maybe I was presenting an analogy you are not aware of. The fact is the latter-day-saint movement shattered into pieces after the death of Joseph Smith and it continues to break. Just like Christianity is in pieces and continues to break.

 

[jane_doe]

Individual Christians, who are not Catholic, are already taught and baptized Christians.

Would you by ok with a Baptist coming at taking the Eucharist? While openly preaching pro-contercption, anti-Mariology, the 5 solas, OSAS?

Please, don’t sell your own rich faith short by pretending it’s “same difference” as Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, or any other.

 

[Peter_J]

1. The whole methodology behind this mass proselytization, particularly the part where Catholics don’t get out of the pews to talk to Anglicans/Baptists/whatever.

Before I respond to this I need clarification: is this your interpretation of the earlier link to the Vatican website, or is it something you heard from a post on this thread? Because if the former, then I would say that you have greatly misinterpreted.

 

[jane_doe]

But maybe you actually don’t know latter-day-saint history. Maybe you don’t know the movement broke into pieces upon the death of Joseph Smith. Maybe I was presenting an analogy you are not aware of. The fact is the latter-day-saint movement shattered into pieces after the death of Joseph Smith and it continues to break. Just like Christianity is in pieces and continues to break.

I am aware of this history. It is also irrelevant to the conversation at hand, as the CoJCofLDS does not do “ecumenism”, rather we simply do as Christ directed: go forth and teach people. It does NOT matter where they are from.

 

[Peter_J]

Would you by ok with a Baptist coming at taking the Eucharist? While openly preaching pro-contercption, anti-Mariology, the 5 solas, OSAS?

Please, don’t sell your own rich faith short by pretending it’s “same difference” as Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, or any other.

Thank you, that might be the best post I’ve seen on this thread.

 

[Stephen168]

Would you by ok with a Baptist coming at taking the Eucharist?

As much as you would accept baptism from Paul Palmieri; a follow member of the latter-day-saint movement.

 

[jane_doe]

Before I respond to this I need clarification: is this your interpretation of the earlier link to the Vatican website, or is it something you heard from a post on this thread? Because if the former, then I would say that you have greatly misinterpreted.

A couple of sources–
Yes the Vatican website
Yes this thread
Many conversations I’ve had with Catholics who’ve expressed very anti-proselytization opinions
The extreme difficulty I’ve personally had trying to find a Catholic to actually teach me anything about their faith

 

[Stephen168]

the CoJCofLDS does not do “ecumenism”, …

I know you don’t. But you wanted to know what Catholics believe because we do ecumenism.

 

[jane_doe]

Thank you, that might be the best post I’ve seen on this thread.

Thank you.

Catholics do have a very rich history and tradition, and this “it’s same difference” attitude I’ve seen on this thread… it makes my blood boil, on behalf of Catholics and other faiths involved. Don’t throw away the beauty you have.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Would you by ok with a Baptist coming at taking the Eucharist? While openly preaching pro-contercption, anti-Mariology, the 5 solas, OSAS?

Please, don’t sell your own rich faith short by pretending it’s “same difference” as Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, or any other.

Right, ecumenism has the ultimate desire of all the baptized in full communion. We don’t see this as a bad thing.

Mormonism is not considered a Christian church, to the Catholic Church. I think it would help you to undertand that Catholics do not evangelize other Christians. They are already Christians. Mormons and other non Christians do require Christianization before, or as a part of, discussing communion.

When discussing communion with other Christians, it is already assumed that the individuals and churches are Christians. Ecumenism from the Catholic POV is an invitation to full communion. Dialogue begins there. Each listening to the other. No one individual or church is brought into full communion, kicking and screaming.

I hope you find this vastly improved to the historical head butting between Catholics and Protestants? Ecumenism is really, a turning way from the head butting and working towards reconciliation. And indeed th Catholic Church is not going to say never mind about our doctrinal differences, but those differences can certainly be discussed and commonality found. Differences resolved to misunderstandings, and the like.

 

[Stephen168]

I am aware of this history.

Good then I repeat my first post. But you have to imagine a world in which Mormons did do ecumenism:

I would say it would be similar to Apostle Paul Palmieri working with all the other latter-day-saint groups to unite them under the true successor to Joseph Smith.

Just as Catholics want to do it for Christians.

 

[Peter_J]

A couple of sources–
Yes the Vatican website
Yes this thread
**Many conversations I’ve had with Catholics who’ve expressed very anti-proselytization opinions
**The extreme difficulty I’ve personally had trying to find a Catholic to actually teach me anything about their faith

That’s also the Vatican’s opinion. For example, from the same website as before:

1. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox.

• the Balamand Agreement

(I have also known some individual Catholics who reject that, but their opinion doesn’t matter much to me.)

 

[jane_doe]

Mormonism is not considered a Christian church, to the Catholic Church. I think it would help you to undertand that Catholics do not evangelize other Christians.

Do you want a Baptist to abandon his beliefs and adopt yours?

If yes, that IS evangelization, even if you call it “ecumenism”.
If no, then would you be ok with them receiving the Eucharist while proclaiming the 5 solas?

 

[jane_doe]

That’s also the Vatican’s opinion. For example, from the same website as before:

1. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox.

• the Balamand Agreement

(I have also known some individual Catholics who reject that, but their opinion doesn’t matter much to me.)

Yes, but then I find out you have entire branches of priests who do proselytization en mass. It seems very contradictory, and I’m trying to reconcile the two.

 

[Stephen168]

Do you want a Baptist to abandon his beliefs and adopt yours?

If yes, that IS evangelization, even if you call it “ecumenism”.
If no, then would you be ok with them receiving the Eucharist while proclaiming the 5 solas?

Do Mormons WANT Christians to abandon their beliefs and adopt theirs? OR do they go door to door talking Church going Christians into abandoning their beliefs?

 

[Peter_J]

Yes, but then I find out you have entire branches of priests who do proselytization en mass. It seems very contradictory, and I’m trying to reconcile the two.

I’m not sure what branches of priests you mean; but this was actually one of the first issues that the Catholic Church dealt with concerning ecumenism:

However, it is evident that, when individuals wish for full Catholic communion, their preparation and reconciliation is an undertaking which of its nature is distinct from ecumenical action. But there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God.

• Decree on Ecumenism from Vatican II

(Note that it’s speaking of people converting to Catholic by their own choice, hence I wouldn’t consider that “proselytism”.)

 

[RebeccaJ]

Do you want a Baptist to abandon his beliefs and adopt yours?

If yes, that IS evangelization, even if you call it “ecumenism”.
If no, then would you be ok with them receiving the Eucharist while proclaiming the 5 solas?

Ah, that is your definition of evangelizing. That is not the Catholic definition. Evangelize is rooted in Greek, meaning to bring a message, or to proclaim. What we proclaim is the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ. All Christians are proclaiming the same Good News, whether we are Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, etc. We discuss and live the Good News with each other in many ways. Ecumenism seeks to perfect the unity in Christ that already exists. It doesn’t replace one Gospel with another.

 

[jane_doe]

I’m not sure what branches of priests you mean; but this was actually one of the first issues that the Catholic Church dealt with concerning ecumenism:

However, it is evident that, when individuals wish for full Catholic communion, their preparation and reconciliation is an undertaking which of its nature is distinct from ecumenical action. But there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God.

• Decree on Ecumenism from Vatican II

Are there not ecumenical priests? A poster several pages back talked about them.

 

[jane_doe]

Ah, that is your definition of evangelizing. That is not the Catholic definition. Evangelize is rooted in Greek, meaning to bring a message, or to proclaim. What we proclaim is the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ. All Christians are proclaiming the same Good News, whether we are Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, etc. We discuss and live the Good News with each other in many ways. Ecumenism seeks to perfect the unity in Christ that already exists. It doesn’t replace one Gospel with another.

You DO replace one sets of beliefs with another, even if the changes was <5%. It IS evangelization.

Catholic beliefs are DIFFERENT than Baptist and DIFFERENT than Lutheran and DIFFERENT than Evangelical. Sorry… I feel like this is obvious but people are just ignoring the fact.

 

[Peter_J]

Are there not ecumenical priests? A poster several pages back talked about them.

I’m afraid I can’t respond without something clearer.