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Lost_Sheep
Guest
Is Edward Snowdon a hero for exposing the U.S. Government’s policy of collecting telephone data from its citizens, or a traitor for leaking “secret” information?
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O
Orogeny
Guest
He decided that HE was above Congress, the administration and the judiciary. HE alone could decide what was right and what was wrong. HE decided that he didn’t have to follow the law.
TRAITOR.
Peace
Tim
TRAITOR.
Peace
Tim
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
It is impossible for me to believe he could not have gone to some congressman or to the Inspector General.
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
And why should they care?It is impossible for me to believe he could not have gone to some congressman or to the Inspector General.
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scipio337
Guest
I’m on the fence until we know more. He may have done the public a very great service, but the fact that he ran to CHINA, who engages in a massive amount of hacking and computer espionage against the US is extremely suspect.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
They might not. But in the context of discovering that an administration has tasked the IRS with blocking and harassing its political opponents, I would think they would be now.And why should they care?
They also harassed (and still are harassing) religious organizations that don’t buy into the “official religion” (paganism) of this administration.
Heard on TV that the administration has released the names and locations of 80,000 farmers to environmentalist groups. Why?
What we don’t know is HOW the administration is using the NSA information. Maybe they’re not using it for political purposes, but political opponents of this administration certainly ought to consider it a cause for concern.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
Neither did the Founding Fathers when they got tired of British Rule, declared independence and decided they could govern themselves. In the eyes of the British, the FFs decided they didn’t have to follow the law either.He decided that HE was above Congress, the administration and the judiciary. HE alone could decide what was right and what was wrong. HE decided that he didn’t have to follow the law.
One man’s revolutionary is another man’s patriot.
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scipio337
Guest
Which founding sought asylum in China, again?Neither did the Founding Fathers when they got tired of British Rule, declared independence and decided they could govern themselves. In the eyes of the British, the FFs decided they didn’t have to follow the law either.
One man’s revolutionary is another man’s patriot.
M
markomalley
Guest
18 USC § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Has he levied war against the US? No
Has he agreed to the enemies of the US? Not to my knowledge.
So I can’t call him a traitor.
But I hesitate to call somebody who releases classified information without authorization a hero, either.
Having said that, I am glad that we know the depth and breadth of the US government’s spying on its own citizenry.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Has he levied war against the US? No
Has he agreed to the enemies of the US? Not to my knowledge.
So I can’t call him a traitor.
But I hesitate to call somebody who releases classified information without authorization a hero, either.
Having said that, I am glad that we know the depth and breadth of the US government’s spying on its own citizenry.
O
Orogeny
Guest
Did you really just compare this guy to the founding fathers? Really?Neither did the Founding Fathers when they got tired of British Rule, declared independence and decided they could govern themselves. In the eyes of the British, the FFs decided they didn’t have to follow the law either.
One man’s revolutionary is another man’s patriot.
I wonder how good his Chinese or Russian language abilities are.
Peace
Tim
O
Orogeny
Guest
Has he given enemies aid? Very likely. Anyone who reveals secret anti-terrorist programs is giving aid to terrorists.18 USC § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.Has he levied war against the US? No
Has he agreed to the enemies of the US? Not to my knowledge.
So I can’t call him a traitor.
Peace
Tim
G
Gavroche
Guest
I think you are looking at this all wrong. It is disconcerting not that he merely went to China, but that the current state of America pushed him to go to China of all places. If he fled to a country allied with the USA and with less “muscle” that country could be pressured into giving in to extradition. Reports are that he has now left Hong Kong, and Russia or Iceland may grant him asylum.I’m on the fence until we know more. He may have done the public a very great service, but the fact that he ran to CHINA, who engages in a massive amount of hacking and computer espionage against the US is extremely suspect.
B
BroomWagon
Guest
Not even a college degree if I understand correctly and was very well-paid and from his own words, didn’t have to work a lot and living in Hawaii.
I don’t mind the guy per se, at this point it doesn’t all add up so I can’t determine the right way to vote.
I don’t mind the guy per se, at this point it doesn’t all add up so I can’t determine the right way to vote.
M
markomalley
Guest
How, exactly? The government has already announced that they monitor terrorist communications. They know nothing now that they didn’t already know.Has he given enemies aid? Very likely. Anyone who reveals secret anti-terrorist programs is giving aid to terrorists.
Peace
Tim
Or is the American public the enemy? If that is the case, he definitely providing aid.
He disclosed classified info. That does not automatically equate to treason.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
AgreeHow, exactly? The government has already announced that they monitor terrorist communications. They know nothing now that they didn’t already know.
YesOr is the American public the enemy? If that is the case, he definitely providing aid.
So far, he seems to believe he did what is right. He gave up up quite a bit for what what right.He disclosed classified info. That does not automatically equate to treason.
I’m still sitting on the fence on this one, though. Wonder if he did contact IG or Congress, and we just don’t know about it yet?
K
KevinAK
Guest
Hero
Barack Obama is the traitor for allowing these illegal acts.
For going on national tv and supporting Mr. Obama, John Boehner is also a traitor
Barack Obama is the traitor for allowing these illegal acts.
For going on national tv and supporting Mr. Obama, John Boehner is also a traitor
F
Fairwinds
Guest
traitor, but I’m glad he did it.
S
Seamus_L
Guest
Hero.
Our Constitution is being shredded in the name of anti-terrorism. The real enemy is in Washington DC.
F
Fairwinds
Guest
daniel ellsberg, who leaked the pentagon papers, has praised the traitor. notable difference: ellsberg did not run and turned himself in to face trial.
S
Shin
Guest
The man is a hero. This program is a violation of the Constitution and people’s personal rights. Those who cannot see the danger of it, I don’t what to say to. What do you say to someone who cannot see something before his very eyes? The truck barrelling down the highway to mow him down?
It is this level of control and intrusion in to people’s lives that enables such tyranny as Satan desires to persecute and destroy Christianity to the extent he is allowed to do so.
It is a step towards the time of Antichrist, and a tool for Freemasonry to control the population.
The danger of it is immense. And people should be entirely up in arms about it, they should be marching on Washington. And the politicians who call this man a traitor, the politicians who concealed this, they are what they are calling this hero.
However, due to propaganda and the power already taken over by those who serve evil, the level of ignorance as to even the most obvious consequences of such power being taken over the people persists. People falsely imagine that this power will be used to their benefit and so the ends justify the means.
It shows the consequences on the intellectual life of the moral degradation of these times.
Greater authority trumps lesser. The law in this case, concealing this violation of the Constitution, this illegal and immoral practice, is unjust, and therefore does not apply. The man is a hero.
It is this level of control and intrusion in to people’s lives that enables such tyranny as Satan desires to persecute and destroy Christianity to the extent he is allowed to do so.
It is a step towards the time of Antichrist, and a tool for Freemasonry to control the population.
The danger of it is immense. And people should be entirely up in arms about it, they should be marching on Washington. And the politicians who call this man a traitor, the politicians who concealed this, they are what they are calling this hero.
However, due to propaganda and the power already taken over by those who serve evil, the level of ignorance as to even the most obvious consequences of such power being taken over the people persists. People falsely imagine that this power will be used to their benefit and so the ends justify the means.
It shows the consequences on the intellectual life of the moral degradation of these times.
Greater authority trumps lesser. The law in this case, concealing this violation of the Constitution, this illegal and immoral practice, is unjust, and therefore does not apply. The man is a hero.
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