Either Catholics or Mormons have it right...

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gatewood1988 said:
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10. Most mainstream Mormons think that the Catholic church is the Church of the devil. (They will not admit it publicly)

These are just a few issues I did have with the Mormon faith. I am not trying to bash them in anyway, after all my whole family is Mormon and I do respect the Mormon church’s emphasis on family. I am grateful that because of my doubt in the Mormon faith, I was able to research and find the truth in Catholicism. 😃
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I want to comment on #10
I have lived in North Utah for 12 years now.
Here is the truth regarding your comment.

The older LDS believe this as I work for a lot of elderly LDS. The ones that come to learn about the Catholic faith have been told this as well. If it’s not from God what else would it be? They have been told all of their lives that their Church is true, this is repeated over and over again from an early age, all others are apostates.

This can not be missed as the LDS church was founded because the Catholic Church failed. They call it the restored Church. It’s all pretty obvious. I have had elderly LDS try to convert me with a video of Joseph Smith. It portrayed Christians as witches. It was probably made in the fifties. After this was shown to me by a man named Paul Harris who was a prominent Mormon here in Logan He said to me “Now can you see that our church is true, why yours is false?” When I said no, that was just a video he became angry. The more I spoke about my love for Jesus and His Church the more he became angry.

I was told back then that masks can fall off because of the name of Jesus. I did not believe this until then as I witnesses this mans mask fall off, I did see another behind it. And it was scary. It’s when I left. What stands out the most as far as one word is “Pride” I know this man did not understand what was happening, I believe he was sincere in his attempt as it was all he would accept. He was right and I was wrong. But I was the one who witnessed him turn from a nice man to a angry man. I even went to embrace him at this point. He pushed me away and these words came out of his mouth. “You really think a lot of that man Jesus don’t you” With chills I said “yes I do, He is my everything”

I always had a special place in my heart for him. I felt bad for Him. He pursued my family for years along with my Priest and fellow Parishioners. He would send letters saying things like “to you Catholics every thing is a mystery, while we have no mysteries. You are risking loosing your eternal family if you remain Catholic” Stuff like that.

He is not the only one I have encountered over the last 12 years. I just learned not to give them an opening that would hurt both them and I. But others have asked good questions after they find out I am Catholic. But I think when I get to personal as I have so many stories, testimonials so to speak they back off. It’s like your Catholic; you’re not supposed to have testimonials like that. They kind of shut down and that’s ok.

To give you one example of another that did not shut down : A Bishops wife asked about the Crucifix, the Cross and I immediately had a sense that she really wanted to know, was interested in what I might say about it. When I don’t feel like it is an honest question, rather baited I return with “What do you think about it?” This gets pretty telling.

After I spoke about it she said “That is really neat, I have never been told that, it does make more sense to me now” But when her husband entered the conversation was over. But it was neat, special moments so to speak. After helping with the RCIA here for 12 years when a question like that is answered you quickly pray “Ok Jesus, this one is for you, Help me shrink” When I have been able to actually do this “Wow” the smaller you see that you really are. Looking to Him makes up all of the difference. The joy that you get in stepping aside is heaven here on earth. I am rambling here, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus………… Why not!

Because I have a Mormon background, a good child hood experience with Mormons I honestly do not have anything against them at all accept I know they have been deceived most by others who have been deceived. Could you imagine being raised Mormon all of your life, being loved by so many? So many fond memories? Running around the stage as a child in the gymnasium, the get togethers, the family home evenings. The dinners, all the thinks good families share no matter what faith.

Continued…
 
If you were not raised in a Mormon community you will never understand. You just do not question it!!! When you do this is where joy meets pain, the rubber meets the road. I know that Catholic families deal with this much better when the roles are reversed. Young pretty Mormon girls are the biggest threat, weapon to Catholics here in Utah trust me. My own son says to me one day as he dates a really cute Mormon girl. “Dad I just want to have an open mind”

Jesus help me step aside!
When he told her he would remain Catholic we never saw her again. Thanks be to God!

For a Mormon, when one begins to question his or her faith this is when the Rose colored glasses can become shattered where a whole world that you know comes crumbling down like a house of cards. You want to run back but it’s not the same, you have gone to far. . Its like falling, it is fear, it’s like death.

But only those who begin such a journey are lucky enough to find the light that shines brightly in the confines of His Church. The one that was supposed to be evil. Yes the pain strikes deep when the Cross is grasped. Its weight is way to heavy for us. But your family’s smiles into snares quickly transform into the life of Christ and all ends up good, worth it in the end, as this end becomes the beginning of life itself. An authentic Baptism takes place, the Eucharist and Confessional light up, Christmass for the first time, Easter for the first time. Where the Holidays turn into the Holy Days.
 
Jim_Dandy said:
The problem with your conclusion is that the Bible came out of the Catholic Church; the Church did not come out of the Bible. The New Testament is a collection of 27 of the Church’s own writings. She formed the Bible at the close of the fourth century. Those writings that did not conform to Catholic teaching were excluded from the NT. Ipso facto, if your (or your organization’s) interpretation does not agree with the Catholic Church, it’s the wrong interpretation.

You and your Baptist pastor apparently don’t believe Christ when He said He would be with His Apostles ALWAYS (Mt 28:20). And you both apparently believe the Holy Spirit failed to do His assigned job of guiding the Church ALWAYS (Jn 14:16-18, 14-26, 15-26, 16:7-15, Acts 1:1, 15:28 et al.).

Mormonism and Protestantism both make Christ a prevaricator who was unable to preserve His Church. They both claim that the gates of hell (KJV) or the powers of death (RSV) did, in fact, prevail against Christ’s Church, in spite of Christ’s promise that it would not fail (Mt 16:18-19).

Christianity stands or falls on the words of Christ.

Jim Dandy
ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
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jim,
I happy to know that you have excepted Jesus Christ as your Savior.
This makes you a Christian, not church membership.
Christian churches teach , when we accept Christ into our hearts he then sends the holy Spirit to guide us
Jesus went back to the Father who sent him after he took our sins to the cross.

Jn.15:26-27 reads “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.27. and you must also testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.”
The Holy Spirit ministers to both our head and heart.
See Ps.139:13-16. 🙂

God bless,
bluelake
 
One thing I find quite interesting is how people have a negative reaction to the name of the Holy Trinity…it is a Catholic name…and what it does is simply condense saying Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Three Persons in One God all the time.

Or instead of saying Our Father for a prayer…we just condense and say, ‘Pater’…Ave means Hail Mary prayer, Gloria means Glory Be to the Father prayer.

It is just alot easier to say Holy Trinity. Or Pater, Ave and Gloria to insiders.
 
KathleenGee said:
One thing I find quite interesting is how people have a negative reaction to the name of the Holy Trinity…it is a Catholic name…and what it does is simply condense saying Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Three Persons in One God all the time.

Or instead of saying Our Father for a prayer…we just condense and say, ‘Pater’…Ave means Hail Mary prayer, Gloria means Glory Be to the Father prayer.

It is just alot easier to say Holy Trinity. Or Pater, Ave and Gloria to insiders.
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Yes, I think people do have an aversion to the word Trinity, but I also think Catholics underate the additional parts that come with the word.

Take your first sentence
  • LDS have no issue with Father, Son and Holy Spirit = Trinity
  • It’s the 3 in 1 aspect that causes heartburn 🙂
Many Catholics think people are objecting to the first bullet rather than the second.
 
Todd520 said:
Yes, I think people do have an aversion to the word Trinity, but I also think Catholics underate the additional parts that come with the word.

Take your first sentence
  • LDS have no issue with Father, Son and Holy Spirit = Trinity
  • It’s the 3 in 1 aspect that causes heartburn 🙂
Many Catholics think people are objecting to the first bullet rather than the second.
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For Christian information about the Trinity, try this link search.aol.com/aol/search?query=the+Trinity&s_it=client_searchbox

PAX DOMINI ;signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
 
Todd,

How do you then explain the baptism of Our Lord at the River Jordan?

What did this event mean?

There was a voice, a dove, and Christ.
 
Also, do you know why Muslims hate Christians? Because Christians worship 3 gods…Catholicism does not.

We follow the Jewish faith that, I personally believed, progressed into faith in one God. The Jewish faith is the olive branch…the gentile in the light of Christ is the grafted wild olive branch. There is the light of the Jewish faith; there is the light of the faith in Christ in the Gentile world.
 
Things To Consider:

1.Those who argue that there was a “great apostasy” in the Catholic Church are, by default, admitting there was a time before this presumed “great apostasy” in which the Catholic Church existed and was the true Church. that being said how could there ever be a “great apostasy” (see Mt. 16:18, Jn. 14:16-17)?

2.If there was a “great apostasy” in the Catholic Church,as mormons and others like to postulate, why is there no true evidence of this presumed apostasy? Historicaly this assertion is without credability and too many false assumptions seem to rule.
  1. There have been so many false charges aimed at the Catholic Church for the last two thousand years it boggles the mind,with a little common sense; it is beyond me,how anyone does not recognize the fingerprints of Satan, at work against it.:twocents:
Peace
:coffee:
 
onenow1 said:
Things To Consider:

1.Those who argue that there was a “great apostasy” in the Catholic Church are, by default, admitting there was a time before this presumed “great apostasy” in which the Catholic Church existed and was the true Church. that being said how could there ever be a “great apostasy” (see Mt. 16:18, Jn. 14:16-17)?

2.If there was a “great apostasy” in the Catholic Church,as mormons and others like to postulate, why is there no true evidence of this presumed apostasy? Historicaly this assertion is without credability and too many false assumptions seem to rule.
  1. There have been so many false charges aimed at the Catholic Church for the last two thousand years it boggles the mind,with a little common sense; it is beyond me,how anyone does not recognize the fingerprints of Satan, at work against it.:twocents:
Peace
:coffee:
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For 1977 years (2010-33) the Catholic Church has survived. We have had incompetent bishops, bad priests, corrupt popes, banal sermons and yet we are still here.

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail, that He would always be with us.

The mere fact that the Church has survived this many years tells you it is divine.

And I am so blessed to have been led by God to the Catholic Church. I thank Him every day for making me Catholic.
 
Miriam1947 said:
For 1977 years (2010-33) the Catholic Church has survived. We have had incompetent bishops, bad priests, corrupt popes, banal sermons and yet we are still here.

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail, that He would always be with us.

The mere fact that the Church has survived this many years tells you it is divine.

And I am so blessed to have been led by God to the Catholic Church. I thank Him every day for making me Catholic.
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I feel the same way. I want to point out before I comment that I myself am a sinner and I ask daily for Jesus to move in me.

With that said I have to make a few observations that I have been blessed to make by living in Utah.

I have many ask me here in Utah if our Priest are paid. Now I have been around here long enough to know why this baited question is asked because the Mormons feel that because thy do not pay those that work for the church in a upper position makes them somehow superior in Charity.

When they ask me this questions this is what they are trying to plant into me as it has been planted into them.

But I know this comes out of “Vanity and Pride” two killers of souls”

There is another reason to strive for high position and greatness and it has nothing to do with being paid. I assume we as Catholics know what this is. Fight it daily utilizing repentance and the Sacrament of Confession. For those that don’t and are Catholic keep trying!

I once sat on the top floor in the conference room of the LDS building next to the LDS Temple here in Salt Lake with around 10 LDS who each held a top position in the LDS Church. One thing that struck was in this room they all had their accomplishments in business upon the walls. One that I remember was a trophy for the best carpet cleaning business in Utah.

It is comforting to know that as a Catholic if I were to walk into the Cathedral up on the hill East of the LDS Temple I am sure I would find the Crucifix on the clergy’s walls in their rooms. Including the Bishops room. How do I know this without going in to them?
 
Catholic sanctity is reflected in the story presented today on EWTN.

It was entitled, ‘Fourteen Flowers from Heaven’, the story of the life of St. Maria Goretti.

For those who don’t know about her, she was an Italian girl whose parents had a farm. They had workhands. One day her 2 year old sister saw her being attacked by one of the farm hands. By the time they had gotten to her, she was stabbed numerous times. She refused the man to retain her purity.

When he went to trial, he followed the lawyers’ advise that Maria was responsible for his actions. He was convicted and went to prison, defiant and continuing to place blame on Maria…she was only 12 years old when she was killed. Later he spent 3 years in solitary confinement, transfered to a prison in Sicily. It was very bad, the convicts brought outside for just an hour only seeing walls and the sky above. His living conditions were inhumane. Many prisoners in solitary confinement committed suicide or went mad.

Alessandro was his name. One night he had a dream. He was seeing this beautiful garden, and there he saw Maria picking flowers…lilies…sign of purity. When she picked up each flower, the flower would be lit as with the light from fire. She picked a lily and then would pass it to him. She continued passing one lily at a time, until Alessandro had 14 lilies…and told him she forgave him. Maria was stabbed 14 times. He woke up and went through a great conversion.

He finally began to tell what really happened. He admitted it was not Maria’s fault. Later on, he admitted he had attempted to violate her, and that she refused and that she was faithful to her creed. On her canonization day in Rome, 500,000 people attended her event, more outside the walls of the Vatican, her mother still alive, the remaining members of her family. Alessandro went to live with the Capuchins in a monastery, and attended Mass and prayer with them every day, living a most holy life.

Stewards in parishes I have attended in the past were very congenial and fraternal men, many of them businessmen or professionals. Several of them became deacons, but their gift was their sense of fraternity and speaking in a way to draw greater unity in a parish.

Most saints have something in common…they had a terrible love for Jesus…and most lived lives of great suffering and heavy crosses.
 
catholic-rcia said:
I feel the same way. I want to point out before I comment that I myself am a sinner and I ask daily for Jesus to move in me.

With that said I have to make a few observations that I have been blessed to make by living in Utah.

I have many ask me here in Utah if our Priest are paid. Now I have been around here long enough to know why this baited question is asked because the Mormons feel that because thy do not pay those that work for the church in a upper position makes them somehow superior in Charity.
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“7: And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” “17: Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18: For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward” (I Tim. 5).
3: Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, 4: Have we not power to eat and to drink? 5: Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? 6: Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? 7: Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? 8: Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? 9: For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10: Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11: If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 12: If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 13: Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (I Cor. 9.)
 
Last night Fr Pavone was talking about how binding the presence of Christ, His sacraments – including the holy priesthood, and His teachings – as Jesus Himself is the heart of catechesis. Binding…meaning, never leaving…

There is absolutely no historical truth that the true faith ended after the death of St. John.

If there was truth that we had a former Jewish lost tribe in America…certainly the Holy Spirit would protect these ‘documents’.
 
There has never been and there never will be a “Great Apostacy” of the Catholic Church, The so called apostacy is the result of a very over-active imagination of Joseph Smith, Brigham young, and others of Mormonism who have duped many into beliving it.

Although there have been many individuals within Catholicism who have apostacized ( even among the higher echelons of the clergy ), this does not mean that the entire Church has apostacized. The Catholic Church today holds true to, and still teaches, what Jesus and the Apostles taught in the primitive Church down through the ages ( about 2000 years ). It cannot be proven otherwise. Many have tried and failed and have only proven that it is an exercise in futility.

Let the Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Muslims, and others, make the claim. It’s the only way they have to try to legitimize their existence. Jesus has made a promise to His Church, which He has kept and still keeps. No matter what, no individual or group of individuals, including Satan and his ilk, can in anyway damage or destroy Jesus Church which is The Catholic Church.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom HaMeshiach
 
bluelake said:
jim,
I happy to know that you have excepted Jesus Christ as your Savior.
This makes you a Christian, not church membership.
Christian churches teach , when we accept Christ into our hearts he then sends the holy Spirit to guide us
Jesus went back to the Father who sent him after he took our sins to the cross.

Jn.15:26-27 reads “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.27. and you must also testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.”
The Holy Spirit ministers to both our head and heart.
See Ps.139:13-16. 🙂

God bless,
bluelake
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Hi bluelake,

Sorry, but I don’t understand your point. My post that you quoted observed that both Mormonism and Protestantism claim that the only 2,000-year-old Church, the Catholic Church, became “apostate” and needed “restoration.” Dates when this is alleged to have occurred differ among them. This makes Christ a liar,

Every Catholic “accepts Christ into his heart” every time he receives Holy Communion.

According to Christ’s Church and the New Testament, Baptism confers the Holy Spirit, not “accepting Christ into our hearts,” which is never mentioned in the NT.

In Chapters 14, 15, and 16 of the Gospel of John, Jesus is talking to his **Apostles, **the leaders of His Church – the Catholic Church. He promised that He and the Spirit would be with the Apostles and their successors ALWAYS, and would lead them to all truth ALWAYS, UNTIL THE END OF TIME (see also Mt 28:20 KJV).

Who was with Jesus “from the beginning” of his ministry whom he was addressing? Not you, not I. Jesus obviously wasn’t making those promises (John 15:26-27 et al.) to anyone except the Apostles – and to the bishops who succeeded them.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
 
Jesus is the Unmoved Mover…He doe not change, He does not abandon His mission to us.

We are the unfaithful, fickle ones.

Jesus is not a light switch…turn on, turn off. This is like playing games with us.

Jesus did not come to deceive us or trick us, or disappear. He said He would remain with us.

And He gave His directives to His apostles in how He wanted to be worshipped…‘Do this in memory of Me…at the Last Supper…’ the Banquet Table.

Jesus did not lay down a sports scenario where we are all competing with each other of who is the best. The Catholic Church does not teach that…but that each of us is to pick up our cross and follow Christ as a servant.

Because if then we believe He started His church, then the apostasy came…then we are thinking as man and not in the Holy Spirit…a man made church.
 
This week, the Journey Home program on EWTN featured Barry Metzentine, a former Mormon. If you hurry, the video interview can still be viewed at

ewtn.com/tv/live/journeyhome.asp

or on youtube.

Previous Journey Home interviews are available on audio. Go to the URL given, scroll down to “watch and listen.” The Metzentine interview is available there. Two other Mormon convert interviews well worth the time are the following:

Page 6, #160, 10-15-2007
Father Erik Richsteig
Pastor, St. James Parish, Ogden, Utah

And my favorite:

Page 11, #313, 7-19-2004
Deacon Steve Seeven
(Deacon is the last step before ordination as a Catholic priest)

Peace, Jim Dandy
 
Thanks, Jim…I just drew on a book regarding the Mass of the early Christians…there was a deliberate secrecy in protecting the faith in times of persecution…I just put it in on the date of the Mormon perception of the Apostasy.
 
Jim_Dandy said:
This week, the Journey Home program on EWTN featured Barry Metzentine, a former Mormon. If you hurry, the video interview can still be viewed at

ewtn.com/tv/live/journeyhome.asp

or on youtube.

Previous Journey Home interviews are available on audio. Go to the URL given, scroll down to “watch and listen.” The Metzentine interview is available there. Two other Mormon convert interviews well worth the time are the following:

Page 6, #160, 10-15-2007
Father Erik Richsteig
Pastor, St. James Parish, Ogden, Utah

And my favorite:

Page 11, #313, 7-19-2004
Deacon Steve Seeven
(Deacon is the last step before ordination as a Catholic priest)

Peace, Jim Dandy
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Wow, thanks for the links! Listening to Deacon Seeven right now. :tiphat:
 
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