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LDSChristian
Guest
Are you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or not? Can’t really tell.
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LDSChristian
Guest
But baptizing in their name is.
You care to tell me how the Melchizedek Priesthood is non-biblical when it’s in the Bible?
what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Called after meaning named after. Melchizedek Priesthood.
Stick a dunce hat on your head. It’s really sad to know people fell from Christ and named the church that went away from Christ the Catholic Church. Peter was never a Pope, the Pope is an example of a false leader, and Catholics need to repent for following the ways of Satan.
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Miriam1947
Guest
That post was never made by me.
I think you are putting two posts together by two or more posters.
By the way I am not a him.
Stephen168
New member
No it was made by me; see post #460. You repeated it and didn’t correct anything about it. You can’t correct something that is true. The Mormon Church did not have Apostles for the first five years after Joseph Smith invented it.
And none of this addresses my post #466; Mormon claims are shattered by science and history.
Stephen168
New member
I realize that asking people to prove a negative is popular in Mormonism; but it is irrational. You are claiming it is in the Bible; prove it.
This does nothing to defend the false claims of Joseph Smith.
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KathleenGee
Guest
LDSChristian…
You should spend more time with Christ than obsess with Satan…because he is the one who is blinding and lying…
The True Spirit of Jesus does not condemn.
If your religion only believes in the three levels of heaven, then why does your tenants also curse those who refuse to believe them…where do the accursed, like us go?
I am not afraid of Mormon curses.
You should spend more time with Christ than obsess with Satan…because he is the one who is blinding and lying…
The True Spirit of Jesus does not condemn.
If your religion only believes in the three levels of heaven, then why does your tenants also curse those who refuse to believe them…where do the accursed, like us go?
I am not afraid of Mormon curses.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
The Mormon Jesus Christ is one of three Gods – Heavenly Father, Jesus (Son), and Holy Ghost. Both Heavenly Father and Jesus are ‘flesh and bones.’ Only the Holy Spirit is “a personage of spirit.” They are separate Gods, but “united in purpose.” According to Mormons, that makes them the “Trinity.”
Do you think God cares that Mormons believe there are many Gods and that Mormon men will become Gods in the afterlife and rule over their own world and have endless sex with their many goddess wives and produce spirit children to populate their world?
First Commandment: You shall have no other Gods before me (meaning that He – Yahweh – is the one and only God).
Anyone who reads the Bible reads both the OT and the NT.
So you “know” that God doesn’t really care about polygamy? How did you come by this knowledge, since Jesus Christ forbids even divorce and remarriage. The Jews had long before this stopped the practice of polygamy. God was teaching them the truth, and they slowly learned. The Jews moved from polygamy to monogamy.
–QUOTE-- *Some Pharisees approached him by asking him, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” He said to them, "For the hardness of your heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery." *-- END QUOTE – Matthew 19:3-9
The OT is not a textbook in Judaism, nor is the NT a systematic instruction book in Christianity. Judaism was a thousand years old before the first word of the OT was written down, and it was another thousand years before it was finished. The Catholic Church was about 70 years old when she wrote the last NT book and almost 400 years old before she compiled the NT. Both religions were handed down through oral tradition.
Jim Dandy
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KathleenGee
Guest
Matthew 19…
There is another by Christ on those who do not marry…some are made that way, others are made so by men, and then there are those who are made for the kingdom…
The beginning priesthood was open to marriage. And it is also reflected on the lives of the Apostles after Pentecost and the tremendous work they did, that an early Church father pondered if they had lived celibate lives although their lives had accompanied them.
I remember learning about all the early saints who died and put to death because they refused to marry.
Is Mormonism through Joseph Smith putting the Catholic Faith to death because our celibate priesthood …there is no reference to the virgins…
There is another by Christ on those who do not marry…some are made that way, others are made so by men, and then there are those who are made for the kingdom…
The beginning priesthood was open to marriage. And it is also reflected on the lives of the Apostles after Pentecost and the tremendous work they did, that an early Church father pondered if they had lived celibate lives although their lives had accompanied them.
I remember learning about all the early saints who died and put to death because they refused to marry.
Is Mormonism through Joseph Smith putting the Catholic Faith to death because our celibate priesthood …there is no reference to the virgins…
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
I repeat: There is no literary, archaeological, monumental, artistic, or historical evidence of any “Great Apostasy.” Mormons are like members of the Flat Earth Society, refusing to believe the earth is round in spite of the scientific and even photographic evidence. The apostasy is an invention of Protestantism, amplified by Mormonism.
I didn’t misinterpret the Book of Mormon. I reported the original teaching of Mormonism. You believe a revisionist doctrine. Mormonism has changed, with the leaders trying to make it more “Christian.”
Mormonism is disproved by archaeology and genetics – definitely not just my opinion, but scientific fact. You can argue with me, but you can’t argue with the facts, although Mormons try to twist the facts like they do the Scriptures (the real ones). It’s incredible how Mormons cling to Joseph Smith, regardless of the evidence that he was a charlatan, a “glass looker” as a New York court described his occupation. He was known as “a digger,” who allegedly found buried treasure by looking through magic peep stones in his hat. The uneducated, mostly illiterate rural people of 19th century America were susceptible to the scam. The amazing thing is that many people still believe him.
Jim Dandy
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rmcmullan
Guest
JimDandy,
Believe what you want but you’re on notice. You are intentionally mis-interpreting LDS scriptures to support a very belligerent and provocative intrepretation. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you seem intent on doing this.
Believe what you want but you’re on notice. You are intentionally mis-interpreting LDS scriptures to support a very belligerent and provocative intrepretation. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you seem intent on doing this.
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KathleenGee
Guest
MrMcMullen,
When you asked about what I was referring to…I shared this experience a number of times.
I met and worked with some wonderful Mormon people, and we had a little time to share our faith with one another…very positive experience but they left the area shortly after.
I was hoping to learn more about Mormonism. The state temple is 2 miles from my house. So I went down to Deseret bookstore to study. Found ‘The Pearl of Great Price’…thinking it would be a spiritual reflection on Christ’s kingdom but instead was taken back by the language and ideas about the Roman Church we are referring to her. Someone later told me it must have been an abridged version …and the book cover was of an earlier period of time. I then walked over to the smaller blue books, regarding the covenants, and again I saw the reference to my Church. It quickly turned into a very different experience.
I went home and began to study things about Mormonism online; I do see a continual witness of beliefs Jim Dandy is sharing here. I also know that Mormonism is shaking off its anti-catholic past although it is still actively teaching we are the apostate church, the abomination…and some of the reasons I think have to do with priestly celibacy because it contradicts so profoundly the lifestyle of Joseph Smith and his inner circle.
I also read about ex Mormons and their loss of faith about God.
Joseph Smith and Mormonism has been apostate because it categorically rejects all Christianity to the point it will not call itself Christian or have any resemblance of being Catholic or Protestant by celebration of Christian holidays and symbols.
Mormon beliefs about us wounds Christianity.
When you asked about what I was referring to…I shared this experience a number of times.
I met and worked with some wonderful Mormon people, and we had a little time to share our faith with one another…very positive experience but they left the area shortly after.
I was hoping to learn more about Mormonism. The state temple is 2 miles from my house. So I went down to Deseret bookstore to study. Found ‘The Pearl of Great Price’…thinking it would be a spiritual reflection on Christ’s kingdom but instead was taken back by the language and ideas about the Roman Church we are referring to her. Someone later told me it must have been an abridged version …and the book cover was of an earlier period of time. I then walked over to the smaller blue books, regarding the covenants, and again I saw the reference to my Church. It quickly turned into a very different experience.
I went home and began to study things about Mormonism online; I do see a continual witness of beliefs Jim Dandy is sharing here. I also know that Mormonism is shaking off its anti-catholic past although it is still actively teaching we are the apostate church, the abomination…and some of the reasons I think have to do with priestly celibacy because it contradicts so profoundly the lifestyle of Joseph Smith and his inner circle.
I also read about ex Mormons and their loss of faith about God.
Joseph Smith and Mormonism has been apostate because it categorically rejects all Christianity to the point it will not call itself Christian or have any resemblance of being Catholic or Protestant by celebration of Christian holidays and symbols.
Mormon beliefs about us wounds Christianity.
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Miriam1947
Guest
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KathleenGee
Guest
Joseph Smith was trouble. He had his great revelations and then tried to join a Methodist church afterwards…they kicked him out.
People see off base people all the time. But Smith and his followers were driven out and deeply upset the common beliefs and sensitivities of the peoples in those times. He probably had very aggressive and provocative ways in relating to people who did not share his outlook.
Because of his personality, I don’t even believe he read his own texts attributed to him. Soren considers him a sociopath. A lighter term used today is a narcissistic personality…but when serial seductions and killings are committed, then yes, I would tend to, but not completely at that point of conviction, call Smith a sociopath only because I am not that knowledgeable of him as Soren is.
People see off base people all the time. But Smith and his followers were driven out and deeply upset the common beliefs and sensitivities of the peoples in those times. He probably had very aggressive and provocative ways in relating to people who did not share his outlook.
Because of his personality, I don’t even believe he read his own texts attributed to him. Soren considers him a sociopath. A lighter term used today is a narcissistic personality…but when serial seductions and killings are committed, then yes, I would tend to, but not completely at that point of conviction, call Smith a sociopath only because I am not that knowledgeable of him as Soren is.
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Jerusha
Guest
The only problem with that is once you call JS the nastiest label in DSM, what do you have left to call Brigham Young? Just saying.
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KathleenGee
Guest
That is what they need to discern…
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
– QUOTE – Early in the writing [the Book of Mormon] Joseph vigorously attacked the Catholic Church. The prophet Nephi was made to have a vision in which he foretold the state of America in the last days. Then, he said, the scourge of the land would be “that great and abominable church . . . The whore of all the earth . . . Whose foundation is the devil.” Nephi derided the Catholic version of the Bible as one having many “plain and precious things” deleted, and accused the priests of desiring “gold, and silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots.”
This attack must have pleased Martin Harris, for the first anti-Catholic feeling was beginning to surge in western New York. Before 1816 there had been no Catholics in this area; but the Erie Canal had brought a tremendous influx of Irish labor. Landing penniless in New York City, the “foreigners” had sailed up the Hudson by the hundreds to work on the big ditch. Their priests had followed after, and Catholic church spires had risen successively westward – Albany, Geneva, Rochester, Buffalo.
It was to be some years before the nativistic frenzy that led up to the burning of nunneries in New York and Boston would reach its peak, but as early as 1828 Josiah Priest, publishing in Albany, was calling the Catholic Church “Babylon the Great.” Rochester, next door to Palmyra, blistered the Roman Church at every opportunity, the Rochester Observer calling it “the Beast” and “the mother of abominations.” When Catholic stagecoach owners refused to abolish Sunday mails at the request of Protestant owners, the Rochester Album published on February 29, 1828 an obviously counterfeit letter bearing the signature of Pope Leo XII:
To the elect elders of Rochester:
You must take the public conveyances into your hands. You must not deal at all with unbelievers; and if they murmur at your doings, send in their names to us, and we will use our holy rack, our thumb screws, our Iron Bed, and many other such arguments, by which we shall no doubt convince them of their damnable heresies.
Martin Harris had paid his first visit to Harmony a fortnight after this uproar and may have brought news of it to Joseph Smith, for the diction of the anti-Catholicism in the Book of Mormon had the same flavor as the pseudo-encyclical: “And it came to pass,” said Nephi, “that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles, the foundation of a great church, which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the Saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.”
Excerpt from *No Man Knows My History, The Life of Joseph Smith, *by Fawn M. Brodie, Second Edition, Alfred A. Knopf, 1979, pages 59-60
Brodie was an historian, who taught at UCLA. She was a Mormon when she started writing Joseph Smith’s life; she was not a Mormon when she had completed the work. She wrote several histories, including the life of Thomas Jefferson.
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Javl
Guest
Mormon baptism was never accepted by the Catholic Church as valid since it did not follow the form given by Jesus.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
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KathleenGee
Guest
Again to clarify, what I am looking at is the construct, the foundation of an organization. So to see Mormonism in its essence you have to look at its basic premise: the Great Apostasy…and that the Catholic Church is not the true church.
Yes, I acknowledge that the Mormons are no longer having the use of such language or rites. And it certainly doesn’t want the original form out because there is a new Mormon Temple being erected in the countryside of Rome.
Yes, I acknowledge that the Mormons are no longer having the use of such language or rites. And it certainly doesn’t want the original form out because there is a new Mormon Temple being erected in the countryside of Rome.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
The problem I see is that Mormon have a view that after the death of the Apostles, people were unable to keep their gaze on Jesus Christ.
All it would take is a very small amount of reading to understand, the love God has shown for us was never forgotten. Our loving gaze never left Him. Without Him, yes, all would be lost. But, we are confident He has never left us.
A wounded world is made whole by Jesus Christ, and we return, wounded, to Him. We are, entirely, reliant on Him. There is no other.
All people have the same invitation, and it has been made known to them through Christ’s Church. It is the same today, as it was yesterday, 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1900 years ago.
Believe and be baptized.
All it would take is a very small amount of reading to understand, the love God has shown for us was never forgotten. Our loving gaze never left Him. Without Him, yes, all would be lost. But, we are confident He has never left us.
A wounded world is made whole by Jesus Christ, and we return, wounded, to Him. We are, entirely, reliant on Him. There is no other.
All people have the same invitation, and it has been made known to them through Christ’s Church. It is the same today, as it was yesterday, 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1900 years ago.
Believe and be baptized.
Stephen168
New member
I see this as a recurring mantra in Mormonism, so they can just claim a faith only view of reality.
This is a Mormon claim I first heard in the 1970’s. An objectively silly claim. In 1800, there was no Mormon Church, so no Mormon Apostolic succession.
The Holy Ghost doesn’t change the object historical facts. If you want to believe everything is subjective, so we can’t truly know anything, you could use the Holy Ghost claim for any claim you want. The truth of the Book of Mormon comes to mind.
The laying on of hands from man to man (Apostolic succession) back to the time of the Apostles is a historical fact. Churches which have an objective claim to that succession, also claim any authority the Apostles received from Christ, they passed down from man to man. Because this authority does not have any physical properties, this claim could be called subjective and others would be free to claim there was no authority passed.
This is claim has some problems both historically and reasonably. There is already apostolic succession, so if authority had been lost, Christ could have just put it right back in the historical Church he personally started. The Mormon authority comes from a Priesthood of Melchizedek, which never excited in Christianity before; a unique Mormon invention. If Apostolic succession was so critical, why would it take five years after starting a new church to name an Apostle? And Peter, James, John were dead and physically could not lay hands on anyone on 1835.
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