Elected Catholic Democrats to release "Statement of Principles"

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Maranatha:
I wonder if John F. Kennedy would associate with the Democrats of today? He supported tax cuts for the wealthy, was strongly anti-communists and was not adverse to going to war over missiles in Cuba. The abortion debate was not an issue back then. He was the arch-typical old style Catholic Democrat.
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He also went out of his way to be clear that he wouldn’t be a puppet of the church…whereas today’s politicans play on emotions of churchgoing people in shameless pandering for votes.
 
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frommi:
Can someone please explain to me what your going to do with these politicians if this right is simply reaffirmed over and over?
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Keep opposing it over and over.

Frommi,

what would you have done in the early 19th century, as slavery was defined as a Constitutional right over and over again?

Would you have given up on all those in bondage? When would you have stopped advocating for Emancipation?

When would you have stopped looking at where a canidate stood on slavery and began to say things like

“Sure he advocates free access to purchase slaves, and would veto any effort to restrict free ownership of slaves, but he has a great plan for perscription meds”
 
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frommi:
It’s all politics…it’s a dirty game and your all being played for fools when you let these people convince you they are pro-life when they advocate killing in just about every situation but a child in a womb.
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Well frommi, guess you got it all figured out! No sense in praying and asking Our Blessed Mother for assistance in ridding this world of murdering babies or for championing the efforts of those who at least are willing to try. You wonder what will happen if abortion is not deterred by the Supreme Court - well, why do you wonder? Its all going to be business as usual and everyone should just relax you say. Don’t be a sap you warn when pro-life politicians put forward legal attempts to stop the murder of babies.
Your judgement is so clouded in willful ignorance it is sad.
 
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frommi:
It amazes me that people around this board seem unwilling to at least take a breath before blasting the politicians.

First of all…when they say ‘unwanted pregnancies’…I don’t think they mean they are looking for a way to increase abortions.

Secondly, they have a point…the abortion debate is becoming such a be all and end all that we might end up with more dead through other means if we aren’t careful.

Relax folks.
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Do not you think, we need anouther Civil War, it could help both blacks and babies…
 
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frommi:
It amazes me that people around this board seem unwilling to at least take a breath before blasting the politicians.

First of all…when they say ‘unwanted pregnancies’…I don’t think they mean they are looking for a way to increase abortions.

**Secondly, they have a point…the abortion debate is becoming such a be all and end all that we might end up with more dead through other means if we aren’t careful.

Relax folks**.
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Aside from nuclear mass destruction of the world, can you give me an example anywhere close to the 47 million babies murdered through abortion?

Now you can understand why we find it hard to ‘relax’.
 
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Maranatha:
Since the publicly released statement is based on incorrect Catholic teaching, our Bishops should release their own statement in order to teach, correct and forestall those who may be lead in to error by this statement.
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:rotfl:

Oh, you were serious? Individual Bishops would, but collectively? The USCCB?
 
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frommi:
He also went out of his way to be clear that he wouldn’t be a puppet of the church…whereas today’s politicans play on emotions of churchgoing people in shameless pandering for votes.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

John Kerry went out of his way to be clear that he had no idea what he was talking about and a man who is very poorly versed in their understanding of Church teaching and theology has absolutely no grounds for demanding anything of the Church.
 
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Brendan:
Keep opposing it over and over.

Frommi,

what would you have done in the early 19th century, as slavery was defined as a Constitutional right over and over again?

Would you have given up on all those in bondage? When would you have stopped advocating for Emancipation?

When would you have stopped looking at where a canidate stood on slavery and began to say things like

“Sure he advocates free access to purchase slaves, and would veto any effort to restrict free ownership of slaves, but he has a great plan for perscription meds”
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Uhh…those folks AMENDED the constitution…

So, if you’re convinced it should be outlawed…why not amend the constitution?
 
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frommi:
Uhh…those folks AMENDED the constitution…

So, if you’re convinced it should be outlawed…why not amend the constitution?
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That is exactly what I am working towards (see my posts above)

Since Ammending the Consititution involves a two thirds majority vote by both Houses of Congress, that would seem to imply that we work towards electing Representatives and Senators who would vote for such an Ammendment.

And that we make such an election a priority.

Isn’t that what we have been saying all along here? That we need to elect pro-life persons to office?
 
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Jerome42:
Aside from nuclear mass destruction of the world, can you give me an example anywhere close to the 47 million babies murdered through abortion?

Now you can understand why we find it hard to ‘relax’.
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I tend to believe that even one life taken for reasons other than God’s is an evil thing. It’s not about numbers. One life is just as important as the next.
 
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Brendan:
That is exactly what I am working towards (see my posts above)

Since Ammending the Consititution involves a majority vote by both Houses of Congress, that would seem to imply that we work towards electing Representatives and Senators who would vote for such an Ammendment.

And that we make such an election a priority.

Isn’t that what we have been saying all along here? That we need to elect pro-life persons to office?
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You can keep trying to do that…but I think you’re hard pressed to show me where you’d get 2/3rds of the states on board.

Even electing pro-life politicians isn’t going to get this done for you.

That’s the part I don’t understand when we politicize the church like this.
 
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frommi:
You can keep trying to do that…but I think you’re hard pressed to show me where you’d get 2/3rds of the states on board.

Even electing pro-life politicians isn’t going to get this done for you.

That’s the part I don’t understand when we politicize the church like this.
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This is politicizing the church it is evangelizing culture :banghead:
 
From the OP:
In all these issues, we seek the church's guidance and assistance but believe also in the primacy of conscience,'' they write in an echo of Kennedy. In recognizing the church’s role in providing moral leadership, we acknowledge and accept the tension that comes from being in disagreement with the church in some areas.’’
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They claim to be faithful Catholics, yet reject one of the foundations of the faith. They think conscience is a teacher and not a pupil. A great recipe for moral relativism.
 
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frommi:
You can keep trying to do that…but I think you’re hard pressed to show me where you’d get 2/3rds of the states on board.

Even electing pro-life politicians isn’t going to get this done for you.

That’s the part I don’t understand when we politicize the church like this.
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You are exactly right. I will need to keep trying.

Back to the original analogy I made. If you were back in 1850, would you have given up an accepted slavery as a fact of life, as you could never get 2/3’s of the Congress and States to pass an Ammendment.

Would you have considered Catholic Abolishists to be ‘politicising’ the Church when they railed against Lousiana politicians who called them selves Catholic, but still owned slaves despite Church teachings to the contrary.
 
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frommi:
You can keep trying to do that…but I think you’re hard pressed to show me where you’d get 2/3rds of the states on board.

Even electing pro-life politicians isn’t going to get this done for you.

That’s the part I don’t understand when we politicize the church like this.
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Politicize the Church!!! Trying stop the slaughter of 1.2 millioin a year is politicizaing the Church. Well if that is politicizing the Church count me in.

Do you kow if we had waited for 2/3 of the States to support a Consitutional Amendment to outlaw slavery it would have taken unitl the late 1930s?? That didnt stop people of faith from politicizing their Churchs to oppose this abomination.

With all due repect I suspect you are a lifelong Democrat and are looking for a way to ratioanlize you support of the party of Avortion

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/6/6_15_11.gifHappy St Davids Day!
 
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Brendan:
You are exactly right. I will need to keep trying.

Back to the original analogy I made. If you were back in 1850, would you have given up an accepted slavery as a fact of life, as you could never get 2/3’s of the Congress and States to pass an Ammendment.

Would you have considered Catholic Abolishists to be ‘politicising’ the Church when they railed against Lousiana politicians who called them selves Catholic, but still owned slaves despite Church teachings to the contrary.
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To make your analogy work…that would mean that the catholic politicians would have to be out having abortions or at least procuring them for others. Which isn’t what’s happening.
 
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frommi:
Uhh…those folks AMENDED the constitution…

So, if you’re convinced it should be outlawed…why not amend the constitution?
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So if you beleive it is impossible to eliminate abortion in this country(which is nonsense) how does that translate into i supporting pro-aboprtion politicans??

In doing so are you not particiapting in the intrinsic evil of abortion???

I think this is not a matter of politiciang the Church as much as it is a matter of you not wantng the Church to interfere with your political beliefs. Does you faith form your politics or does you politics form your faith?
 
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mike182d:
Kind of like the economy growing during the Clinton years and giving him credit despite no one being able to p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly what it was that he did for the economy?

You might find this article of interest: nrlc.org/news/2005/NRL02/AbortionIncreaseMyth.html
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Thanks for the link. I may be reading your post wrong, but it seems to suggest that I’m giving Clinton some sort of acknowledgement for starting the decrease and I am not. I wasn’t actually sure when the decline started, but I knew there has been decline since he was in office. It is good to know the decline started with Bush Sr.

Thanks again
 
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bones_IV:
You have no right to tell the pope how to do his job.
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Errrrrr…actually, I do, according to Lumen Gentium…
By reason of the knowledge, competence, or pre-eminence which they have, the laity are empowered—indeed sometimes obliged—to manifest their opinion on those things which pertain to the good of the Church. [Vatican Council II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, no. 37]
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You have no way of knowing what the pope has instructed the bishops to do or not to do.
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Admonishment ought to first be private. But if one’s sinful dissent is public, their recant should also be public. This is how the dissent of Fr. Charles Curran was handled. Nobody in their right mind would quote from Fr. Curran as though he were a reliable source of Catholic theology since the Holy See has publically stated that he is not qualified nor is he mandated as a Catholic theologian, precisely due to his failure to recant from his dissenting position. (Although how he and Fr. Hans Kung are still allowed to be a priest boggles the mind.)

The public dissent of politicians should be corrected (recanted) publically. Failure to recant from a dissenting position is subject to canonical penalties. Yet, has there been any penalties??? Hasn’t there been a heresy case filed in the Archdiocese of Boston against John Kerry? What has the Ordinary done with this case?

If penalties were indeed imposed, it does no good to keep it a secret for sinful dissent that was public.
The pope has denounced abortion time and time again.
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I’m very pleased that he has. What I am not so pleased about is that he has not publically and specifically censured public dissent of politicians.
 
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