Election 2012 - Who to vote for?

[bellasbane]

Yes there is:

And if it is the conservatives who “think they are right all the time”, why is it the Progressives who past the ACA on a party line vote and forced more than half of Americans to accept a program they didn’t want?

Or said this “If Congress won’t act, I will”

abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-congress-wont-act-14841368

No, if there is any one ideology that will stand on a soabox and preach loudly about the righteousness of their position, it is the Progressives.

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine.” - G.K. Chesterton.

You’re right. The ACA SHOULD have been worked out by both parties. Obama ran on the idea of health care reform and was duly elected president by the people. So it while it wasn’t a “mandate” (ironic that) it was something MOST Americans supported.

The GOP should have made a serious effort to work with the Democrats on health care reform - instead of just fighting against it, they should have fought harder to make it better bill rather then putting all their effort into making sure Obama was just a one-term president. But they didn’t.

It is one thing to have ideological principles, but it is another thing to govern a pluralistic society. Nobody is totally right or wrong.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The extreme left is inherently totalitarian. It has to be, because its objectives run contrary to natural human instincts and aspirations.

Well, the “extreme right” (theocracy) tends to be the same way.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

You’re right. The ACA SHOULD have been worked out by both parties. Obama ran on the idea of health care reform and was duly elected president by the people. So it while it wasn’t a “mandate” (ironic that) it was something MOST Americans supported.

The GOP should have made a serious effort to work with the Democrats on health care reform - instead of just fighting against it, they should have fought harder to make it better bill rather then putting all their effort into making sure Obama was just a one-term president. But they didn’t.

It is one thing to have ideological principles, but it is another thing to govern a pluralistic society. Nobody is totally right or wrong.

Its was hard for Republicans to work with Democrats when they keep getting locked out of closed door meetings and then have a President remind you “I won the election, you’re just gonna have to deal with it”.

I believe that this country is polarized beyond the point of repair. The two sides should just divy up the country and let the liberals/Progressives have part of it, conservatives have part of it, and libertarians have part of it.

 

[scipio337]

…“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine.” - G.K. Chesterton.

Nice! We should quote Chesterton more often!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, the “extreme right” (theocracy) tends to be the same way.

And theocracy is being proposed by what party??? Well, I guess maybe the Muslim Brotherhood promotes theocracy, but it’s actually a collectivist-oriented group, as are most Islamist parties at the core.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Its was hard for Republicans to work with Democrats when they keep getting locked out of closed door meetings and then have a President remind you “I won the election, you’re just gonna have to deal with it”.

I agree. It was embarrasing to watch, and embarrassing to be an American seeing it happen in front of the whole world.

 

[bellasbane]

Its was hard for Republicans to work with Democrats when they keep getting locked out of closed door meetings and then have a President remind you “I won the election, you’re just gonna have to deal with it”.

I believe that this country is polarized beyond the point of repair. The two sides should just divy up the country and let the liberals/Progressives have part of it, conservatives have part of it, and libertarians have part of it.

I think we tried that once - lots of people died.

Four more years of Obama is not worse than 8 years of Mitt Romney. I don’t agree with everything Obama does, but I don’t get the sense that some shady person is standing behind him pulling the strings like I do with Mitt Romney. Nothing is worse than that.

I would rather have a Chris Christie (who yells at people) or a Ron Paul (who scares the establishment - bonus!) or a Jeb Bush (who seems reasonable) in four years than someone who is bought & paid for by a guy who runs casinos in China.

Something is going to happen in this election. Either the presidency will be purchased by the people who fund the right-wing propoganda or we will get another chance in 2016. That’s the way I see it.

 

[estesbob]

I think we tried that once - lots of people died.

Four more years of Obama is not worse than 8 years of Mitt Romney. I don’t agree with everything Obama does, but I don’t get the sense that some shady person is standing behind him pulling the strings like I do with Mitt Romney. Nothing is worse than that.

I would rather have a Chris Christie (who yells at people) or a Ron Paul (who scares the establishment - bonus!) or a Jeb Bush (who seems reasonable) in four years than someone who is bought & paid for by a guy who runs casinos in China.

Something is going to happen in this election. Either the presidency will be purchased by the people who fund the right-wing propoganda or we will get another chance in 2016. That’s the way I see it.

Can you tell us what proportionate reason would allow a catholic to vote for Obama? It would be helpful if you could back it up with direct links to Church Documents and/or members of the magestrium. Like this, for example:

“**No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,” **

"You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,"

Cardinal Edmund Burke

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And theocracy is being proposed by what party??? Well, I guess maybe the Muslim Brotherhood promotes theocracy, but it’s actually a collectivist-oriented group, as are most Islamist parties at the core.

I wasn’t specific about what country, but extreme right wing politics and extreme left wing politics tend to be very similar in their mechanism of enforcement,

 

[scipio337]

I think we tried that once - lots of people died.

Four more years of Obama is not worse than 8 years of Mitt Romney. I don’t agree with everything Obama does, but I don’t get the sense that some shady person is standing behind him pulling the strings like I do with Mitt Romney. Nothing is worse than that.

I would rather have a Chris Christie (who yells at people) or a Ron Paul (who scares the establishment - bonus!) or a Jeb Bush (who seems reasonable) in four years than someone who is bought & paid for by a guy who runs casinos in China.

Something is going to happen in this election. Either the presidency will be purchased by the people who fund the right-wing propoganda or we will get another chance in 2016. That’s the way I see it.

When will the uncharitable allegations stop???

Bella, are you aware that there are HUGE amounts of money spent by both parties? Your continual drumbeat of “right wing propoganda” falls flat in the face of facts.

Here are the Top All-Time Political Donors, 1989-2012:

opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

What do you notice about, say, the first 14 or so??

You’re also supporting the candidate who raised (and spent) more money in 2008 than any politician in the history of mankind.

opensecrets.org/pres08/

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aerix76GvmRM

I hope that irony, and the hypocrisy of that position isn’t lost upon you.

 

[austenbosten]

I think we tried that once - lots of people died.

Four more years of Obama is not worse than 8 years of Mitt Romney. I don’t agree with everything Obama does, but I don’t get the sense that some shady person is standing behind him pulling the strings like I do with Mitt Romney. Nothing is worse than that.

I would rather have a Chris Christie (who yells at people) or a Ron Paul (who scares the establishment - bonus!) or a Jeb Bush (who seems reasonable) in four years than someone who is bought & paid for by a guy who runs casinos in China.

Something is going to happen in this election. Either the presidency will be purchased by the people who fund the right-wing propoganda or we will get another chance in 2016. That’s the way I see it.

Right makes so much sense.

Better to vote for a proven disaster than a potential disaster

as for supporting Jeb Bush…you really want another Bush in the WH…haven’t we had enough? At what point before Jeb becomes Jebanus Maximus Bushus Caesar?

 

[irishpatrick]

When will the uncharitable allegations stop???

Bella, are you aware that there are HUGE amounts of money spent by both parties? Your continual drumbeat of “right wing propoganda” falls flat in the face of facts.

Here are the Top All-Time Political Donors, 1989-2012:

opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

What do you notice about, say, the first 14 or so??

You’re also supporting the candidate who raised (and spent) more money in 2008 than any politician in the history of mankind.

opensecrets.org/pres08/

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aerix76GvmRM

I hope that irony, and the hypocrisy of that position isn’t lost upon you.

Let’s take it a step further. The Democrats love to pin the GOP with the label of being the party of the rich; however, of the 400+ billionaires in the USA, more than 70% of them are Democrats, and there are more rich Democrats in Congress, than there are rich Republicans.

 

[Jeffrey]

Only if you’vebeen living under a rock… obama is NOT good for the country in anyway shape or form. Especially for the unborn.

Who to vote for?

There is only one man running for President of the United States in 2012 who is any kind of a leader and that is Barack Hussein Obama.

 

[Jeffrey]

They usually pull the race card out when they have lost the arguement.

My goodness! Every contentless Democrat talking point in one place at the same time! We’ve heard them all before, though. Even the despicable and bigoted “race card” part.

 

[Jeffrey]

You shouldn’t… the DNC is for killing the unborn… and goes against Catholic teaching on homos.

Thank you! I always write my own posts, so I take that as a real compliment!

 

[bellasbane]

When will the uncharitable allegations stop???

Bella, are you aware that there are HUGE amounts of money spent by both parties? Your continual drumbeat of “right wing propoganda” falls flat in the face of facts.

Here are the Top All-Time Political Donors, 1989-2012:

opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

What do you notice about, say, the first 14 or so??

You’re also supporting the candidate who raised (and spent) more money in 2008 than any politician in the history of mankind.

opensecrets.org/pres08/

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aerix76GvmRM

I hope that irony, and the hypocrisy of that position isn’t lost upon you.

Hi Scipio,

Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you yet! I’m supposed to be doing the laundry

There is plenty of propaganda on both sides - but the megaphone is so much bigger on the right that it makes a huge difference.

Just look at the amount of money being donated by a few billionaires to the GOP superpacks - those are not campaign contributions - they’re investments.

And what are these organizations going to do with all that money? Run millions of dollars in negative ads. Just like they did against Santorum and Gingrich during the primaries - but worse.

I mean, does anyone really believe Karl Rove’s “Crossroads GPS” is really a social welfare organization whose primary purpose is not political? That’s the definition of a 501(c)4 nonprofit organization. How many legitimate “social welfare” organizations can afford to launch a $25 million dollar ad campaign against a candidate’s record?

MSNBC may be liberal, but the main stream media is not - Fox News with its high ratings and conservative agenda IS the main stream media. That’s what people hear, so that’s all they think about. Crazy conspiracy theories and “end of the world” scenarios dreamed up by Rupert Murdoch’s minions.

It is really too bad.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Four more years of Obama is not worse than 8 years of Mitt Romney. I don’t agree with everything Obama does, but I don’t get the sense that some shady person is standing behind him pulling the strings like I do with Mitt Romney. Nothing is worse than that.

Oh, I think having George Soros pulling the strings for the next four years could be a whole lot worse. Remember the Asian Tigers? Remember the Bank of England?

 

[scipio337]

Hi Scipio,

Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you yet! I’m supposed to be doing the laundry

There is plenty of propaganda on both sides - but the megaphone is so much bigger on the right that it makes a huge difference.

Just look at the amount of money being donated by a few billionaires to the GOP superpacks - those are not campaign contributions - they’re investments.

And what are these organizations going to do with all that money? Run millions of dollars in negative ads. Just like they did against Santorum and Gingrich during the primaries - but worse.

I mean, does anyone really believe Karl Rove’s “Crossroads GPS” is really a social welfare organization whose primary purpose is not political? That’s the definition of a 501(c)4 nonprofit organization. How many legitimate “social welfare” organizations can afford to launch a $25 million dollar ad campaign against a candidate’s record?

MSNBC may be liberal, but the main stream media is not - Fox News with its high ratings and conservative agenda IS the main stream media. That’s what people hear, so that’s all they think about. Crazy conspiracy theories and “end of the world” scenarios dreamed up by Rupert Murdoch’s minions.

It is really too bad.

But again, the door swings both ways. You don’t hear much about President Obama’s Super PACs, but they are there, and oddly enough are outspending the Romney Super PACs:

According to Federal Election Commission data filed from January 2011 through July 3, super PACs and all groups making “independent expenditures” in the political arena have spent $35.3 million in opposition to Romney, and only $9 million in opposition to Obama. Rove’s American Crossroads, for example, has spent $3.1 million this cycle. But only $158,126.17 of that has been spent in efforts opposing President Obama, and a separate $7,500 has been spent on Web ads supporting Mitt Romney. For perspective, the group spent $358,202.98 in mid-June in just one expenditure on “TV/Media Purchases” opposing Democratic Senate candidate Tim Kaine in Virginia, and then spent the same sum a week later in the same race…

nationalreview.com/articles/304754/obama-s-super-pac-advantage-jim-geraghty

I understand your feelings about PACs, but some consistency would be good. I doubt you are very concerned about the PACs running negative Romney ads, or Steve Mostyn’s $10 million donation to an Obama PAC.

And good luck with that laundry, I finished most of my family’s last night!

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Hi Scipio,

Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you yet! I’m supposed to be doing the laundry

There is plenty of propaganda on both sides - but the megaphone is so much bigger on the right that it makes a huge difference.

Just look at the amount of money being donated by a few billionaires to the GOP superpacks - those are not campaign contributions - they’re investments.

And what are these organizations going to do with all that money? Run millions of dollars in negative ads. Just like they did against Santorum and Gingrich during the primaries - but worse.

I mean, does anyone really believe Karl Rove’s “Crossroads GPS” is really a social welfare organization whose primary purpose is not political? That’s the definition of a 501(c)4 nonprofit organization. How many legitimate “social welfare” organizations can afford to launch a $25 million dollar ad campaign against a candidate’s record?

MSNBC may be liberal, but the main stream media is not - Fox News with its high ratings and conservative agenda IS the main stream media. That’s what people hear, so that’s all they think about. Crazy conspiracy theories and “end of the world” scenarios dreamed up by Rupert Murdoch’s minions.

It is really too bad.

This is cable news. You cannot compare FoxNews, CNN, MNSBC, etc… with the major news networks NBC, ABC, CBS, and Fox (not FoxNews). People expect biased commentators on cable channels. it is Infotainment, or EntertaiNews. However, on the major networks, people expect UNBIASED reporting, as these are operating on the public airwaves.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Oh, I think having George Soros pulling the strings for the next four years could be a whole lot worse. Remember the Asian Tigers? Remember the Bank of England?

George Soros is actively orchestrating the downfall of US currency. Its a game for him and it “turns him on” when he sees democratic countries spun into chaos by his mechinations. The man is an enemy of this country and he needs to be treated as such.