Election 2012 - Who to vote for?

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I guess we should just stop discussing things then, since it is a complete waste of time to read other people’s views. :rolleyes:

Oh wait…why are you still in this useless thread? 😛
My thoughts exactly. 👍

See, it works both ways! 🙂
 
I love how you guys feed off of each other.

“Person A” creates a straw-men that has nothing to do with reality and then “Person B” adds to the distortion with some equally outrageous comment. Next thing you know, Obama is going to France for the 4th of July.

It is really a fascinating portrait in self delusion.
Strawman, you say??

bellasbane said:
Right-wing extremists want to claim he kills babies…
**The Vatican Slams Obama over Abortion **
…With unusual speed, the Vatican has condemned Obama’s Jan. 23 repeal of the ban on U.S. funding for foreign family-planning aid groups that offer abortion services…
The same day, the secular Milan daily Corriere della Sera published an interview with a top Vatican official lashing out at the new U.S. President. Archbishop Rino Fisichella, head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, told the newspaper that the repeal of the abortion-funding ban was done with “the arrogance of those who, having power, think they can decide between life and death.”…
…“On ethical questions, you can’t play with words,” said the Italian Archbishop, who is considered close to Pope Benedict XVI. “Hiding behind sophisms isn’t worthy of he who has a responsibility towards citizens. People want clarity.”
time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1873904,00.html

I would say, as the Time article outlines, the Pope thinks President Obama’s policies kills babies. Is he not now a “Right-wing extremists”?

I’ve heard charges that Pope Benedict was once in the Hitler Youth, but I never thought I would see it on this forum. 😦
 
My thoughts exactly. 👍

See, it works both ways! 🙂
Christine, when I was in College, I read the Daily Worker to see what the latest “correct line” was. I wouldn’t have discussed it with a Communist, however, because neither he or I was likely to change our minds about our political positions. So reading was fine - debate ridiculous.
 
There’s a difference between reading and noting the views of others, and discussing them. I’m all for the former. 🙂
Got it. You are here as an observer and prefer not to discuss. 👍

You have a lot of posts for someone who isn’t discussing. 😛
 
Got it. You are here as an observer and prefer not to discuss. 👍

You have a lot of posts for someone who isn’t discussing. 😛

I discuss where discussion means something and where some change might come of it. The coming elections are IMO best observed for the reasons given.
 
Christine, when I was in College, I read the Daily Worker to see what the latest “correct line” was. I wouldn’t have discussed it with a Communist, however, because neither he or I was likely to change our minds about our political positions. So reading was fine - debate ridiculous.
Well, Rich. I know your decision to vote neither is “in stone,” but I pray that you will open your mind as you read these discussions and consider voting Romney. I know he is imperfect, but he is pro-life and is our best chance to get the economy steered in the right direction.

Happy observing. 😛
 
I am a dyed in the wool libertarian, so I am not sure if I qualify to be put into any of those boxes you’ve described.

Obama loves the idea of what he thinks he can turn America into. He has been quite open about the fact that he doesn’t like the policies, the economic system, most of the people, the Constitution as written, our political process. Why else would he vow to “fundamentally transform America” if he is an America loving patriot? Your fanatical devotion to Progressive ideology has sincerely compromised your ability to see things objectively.
I don’t think Obama’s likability ratings would be so high if he went around projecting dislike for most Americans. Also, where does that quote about him wanting to fundamentally transform American actually comes from? I hear it repeated all the time, but what is the original source?

The gender-gap and minority-gap between Romney & Obama highlights an undeniable truth about the American electorate. Most people who believe Obama’s policies threaten their vision of America are white and men - the same demographic who wrote the Constitution. I don’t think that is a coincidence.

As for being a progressive, unlike some people on this forum, I certainly don’t revere the “Founding Fathers” as if they were the “Apostolic Fathers” or Thomas Aquinas - so maybe that’s what makes me a bit odd.

The way I see it, after writing the Constitution, the Founding Fathers interpreted it to suit themselves, even if it didn’t suit anyone else (e.g., women and slaves). I don’t think they did it out of malice, but for what they believed was the “common” good. The problem is that when you deny most of the population a voice in the system, what you get is not the “common” good, but what is “good for white men”.

Fortunately, the Founding Fathers created a document that allows for new interpretations of the principles it states. For example, “justice for all” clearly means something very different to a diverse electorate than it does when only white men of property had a voice.

That is the difference between progressives and conservatives. We listen to other people’s voices - conservatives just think they are right all the time. 🤷
 
Strawman, you say??

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1873904,00.html

I would say, as the Time article outlines, the Pope thinks President Obama’s policies kills babies. Is he not now a “Right-wing extremists”?

I’ve heard charges that Pope Benedict was once in the Hitler Youth, but I never thought I would see it on this forum. 😦
Be careful, if you quote Time magazine, you could be accused of being a right wing extremist trying to build a strawman…
 
…Fortunately, the Founding Fathers created a document that allows for new interpretations of the principles it states. For example, “justice for all” clearly means something very different to a diverse electorate than it does when only white men of property had a voice.

That is the difference between progressives and conservatives. We listen to other people’s voices - conservatives just think they are right all the time. 🤷
No, the Founding Fathers created a contract that has an explicit means for adjustments, namely, the Constitutional Amendment process. In the cases of women and slavery, the process worked.

It’s not a document that is subject to prevailing popular opinion at a given time.

Do you have end every post with an ad hominem?
 
That is the difference between progressives and conservatives. We listen to other people’s voices - conservatives just think they are right all the time. 🤷
Yes there is:

And if it is the conservatives who “think they are right all the time”, why is it the Progressives who past the ACA on a party line vote and forced more than half of Americans to accept a program they didn’t want?

Or said this “If Congress won’t act, I will”

abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-congress-wont-act-14841368

No, if there is any one ideology that will stand on a soabox and preach loudly about the righteousness of their position, it is the Progressives.

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine.” - G.K. Chesterton.
 
Yes there is:

And if it is the conservatives who “think they are right all the time”, why is it the Progressives who past the ACA on a party line vote and forced more than half of Americans to accept a program they didn’t want?

Or said this “If Congress won’t act, I will”

abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-congress-wont-act-14841368

No, if there is any one ideology that will stand on a soabox and preach loudly about the righteousness of their position, it is the Progressives.

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine.” - G.K. Chesterton.
I like you Scott - I really do. You are probably the #1 reason why I post anything on this forum. I wish you the best - really. Have to say it now while I still have the chance!
 
Ha! I was in banking during part of that time. Probably we met. I’ll say, this association is a good deal more pleasant than that one probably was! 🙂
If you were working for one of the Commerce banks we did indeed run into each other!
 
The gender-gap and minority-gap between Romney & Obama highlights an undeniable truth about the American electorate. Most people who believe Obama’s policies threaten their vision of America are white and men - the same demographic who wrote the Constitution. I don’t think that is a coincidence.
Then the obvious solution is to shoot all the white men and burn the constitution. :rolleyes:

Well, all the married women too, because they don’t support Obama either.

Well, then those pesky Cubans aren’t too crazy about him.

And those faithful catholics who aren’t white men. I recall a conservative black woman on here, for example, and more than one Hispanic. Well, and a fair number of religious protestants of various colors and genders.

Lots of shooting and burning. I don’t know the exact number, but what did Bill Ayers, Obama’s patron, have for his shooting count? Wasn’t it 30 million? Kind of short of the full cohort, but it might well operate “pour encourager les autres”. Executing 30 million might do that, all right. I’m not sure what other leftists’ counts would be. 🤷
 
I like you Scott - I really do. You are probably the #1 reason why I post anything on this forum. I wish you the best - really. Have to say it now while I still have the chance!
I like you to. You remind me of my wife. She likes to argue with me, even if their is nothing to argue about. She’ll argue with me about not arguing…😃
 
Then the obvious solution is to shoot all the white men and burn the constitution. :rolleyes:

Well, all the married women too, because they don’t support Obama either.

Well, then those pesky Cubans aren’t too crazy about him.

And those faithful catholics who aren’t white men. I recall a conservative black woman on here, for example, and more than one Hispanic. Well, and a fair number of religious protestants of various colors and genders.

Lots of shooting and burning. I don’t know the exact number, but what did Bill Ayers, Obama’s patron, have for his shooting count? Wasn’t it 30 million? Kind of short of the full cohort, but it might well operate “pour encourager les autres”. Executing 30 million might do that, all right. I’m not sure what other leftists’ counts would be. 🤷
Shooting, burning, and starving people into submitting to their agenda seems to be the way that Progressives ultimately install their agenda. 🤷
 
Shooting, burning, and starving people into submitting to their agenda seems to be the way that Progressives ultimately install their agenda. 🤷
The extreme left is inherently totalitarian. It has to be, because its objectives run contrary to natural human instincts and aspirations.
 
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