Elizabeth Smart's father announces he is gay

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SunshineGrandma said:
LDS leaders have taught that both of them were married. In fact, some even taught that Jesus was a polygamist. (See Journal of Discourses 1:345, 2:82, 4:259 as well as The Seer , p.172.)
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And to think Arius was punched in the nose for denying the divinity of Jesus! I can’t even imagine how the early Christians would have reacted to the Mormons. 😳😳
 
Okie dokie. I feel then, that I need to make the announcement that I am straight and remaining Catholic. I hope no one is disappointed by this shocking news.
 
SunshineGrandma said:
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gazelam:
Utterly untrue. Please provide the link where you saw this.
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It seems very clear the LDS teaching on the topic:

Exaltation according to Mormonism means gaining a fullness of all God has to offer. It includes reaching the “highest level” of the LDS heaven (called the celestial kingdom), attaining all knowledge available, and becoming a “God” over your own creation. Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote that those who attain exaltation “…inherit in due course the fullness of the glory of the Father, meaning that they have all power in heaven and on earth…” ( Mormon Doctrine pg. 257). Doctrine and Covenants also teaches that “then shall they be gods, because they have no end…then shall they be gods, because they have all power…” ( D&C 132:16-26). This is the ultimate goal in Mormonism.

One of the requirements to reach this goal is what Mormons call “celestial marriage.” Today celestial marriage is simply defined as a marriage in a Mormon temple designed to last not just until death but throughout all eternity…

McConkie wrote,

Celestial marriage is an absolute necessity to reach this desired goal. Its importance in the place of salvation and exaltation cannot be overestimated.

“The most important things that any member of (the LDS Church) ever does in this world are: 1) To marry the right person, in the right place, by the right authority; and 2) To keep the covenant made in connection with this holy and perfect order of matrimony…” ( Mormon Doctrine pg. 118).

Those who choose to remain single or do not enter into the covenant of celestial marriage while on earth are no longer in obedience to God or to Mormon authorities. They will not advance to Godhood, but will be given menial tasks as angels for all eternity. As McConkie put it,

And Doctrine and Covenants 132;16-17 says,

“Therefore, when they are out of the world they… are appointed angels in heaven… to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. For these angels did not abide my law”.”
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I’m waiting to see the part about women needing to marry a RM in the temple to achieve heaven.
 
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gazelam said:
I’m waiting to see the part about women needing to marry a RM in the temple to achieve heaven.
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The stuff I posted isn’t from the Young Women’s manual. (I will post it when I get it out of storage).

Please don’t even try and tell me marrying an RM isn’t the goal of Mormon girls or isn’t encouraged by the church.

From the Salt Lake Trib:

Willoughby, who teaches a marriage-preparation class at BYU and studies young-adult relationships, also wonders whether young men will gravitate more toward women who’ve been on missions, similar to the way many young women now aim for returned-missionary husbands. Or, he asks, will men pursue women who choose to stay home, thinking them more marriage-minded?
 
gazelam said:
True, but part of the commandment is to replenish the Earth. The Earth would not be filled up after 5, 10 or even 20 generations after Noah. When would God had notified a prophet that the Earth is properly replenished and that some celibacy would then be permissible?
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Why do LDS take the Old Testament over the words and example of Jesus Christ regarding marriage, celibacy and heaven?

What is the LDS obsession with eternal marriage AND pregnancy?
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
The Sadducees asked Jesus who’s wife will she be in the resurrection because she was married to all seven of the brothers during their earthly life. They weren’t asking Jesus whether or not she would marry one of them in the resurrection. So the LDS interpretation doesn’t make any sense here, because for it to make sense, Jesus would have to be answering a question that wasn’t asked. Jesus answers the question of who’s wife would she be of the 7 brothers she married on earth. So taken in correct context, Jesus says she won’t be wife to any of them because there is no marriage in heaven. And then after that he says they will be like the angels in heaven. In other words, not married. Angels are not married. They have an entirely different role and in fact are entirely a different race of beings. This goes to another false LDS teaching which says that angels are resurrected human beings. They are not.
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Though I am an LDS, the scripture interpretation given here is my own personal opinion.
Jesus did answer their question, but first pointed out they did not understand the scriptures or the power of God. They did not understand that to be married in heaven your marriage must be through a special marriage performed by one with authority or “power of God.” Jesus gave this authority to Peter so “whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”. (Matt 16:19) Therefore, none of them would be married in heaven and would be like the unmarried angels in heaven.
 
SunshineGrandma said:
Is there a LDS “catechism”?
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Not really. What I meant was I don’t speak for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though I believe what I post is consistent with its teachings. I believe it may sometimes be inaccurate to say what I write is “the LDS interpretation” of scripture.
 
mtolympus said:
Though I am an LDS, the scripture interpretation given here is my own personal opinion.
Jesus did answer their question, but first pointed out they did not understand the scriptures or the power of God. They did not understand that to be married in heaven your marriage must be through a special marriage performed by one with authority or “power of God.” Jesus gave this authority to Peter so “whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”. (Matt 16:19) Therefore, none of them would be married in heaven and would be like the unmarried angels in heaven.
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Well, I think it might be wise for you to change your personal interpretation for a couple reasons:
  1. Jesus did point out that the Sadducees did not understand the scriptures or the power of God. This has nothing to do with marriage, however. As you pointed out in your earlier post, this passage is about the Sadducees denial of resurrection, which is exactly what Jesus is talking about here. He is saying the Sadducees don’t understand the scriptures or the power of God because they deny resurrection.
  2. There is zero historical or scriptural evidence that the Jews, Jesus, or the Apostles ever believed in, taught about, or performed celestial marriages. There are zero records of celestial marriage either biblically or historically before Joseph Smith. So for you to assume this is what Jesus was talking about here is in reality a projection of post-1830’s LDS doctrine backwards onto 1st-century Christianity. This was an entirely new concept introduced by Joseph Smith and would be totally foreign to early Christians. I know LDS authorities may claim otherwise, but if they do they are talking nonsense with no evidence to back it up.
 
SunshineGrandma said:
How do LDS access their teachings?
Are teachings changed or updated?
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LDS teachings are often changed, sometimes by doing a complete 180, whenever the current prophet says so. The current prophet can and does change, deny, or even reverse what previous prophets have taught. LDS take pretty much everything the prophet says as gospel truth, so when the current prophet teaches something very different from what was taught by a predecessor, the members sort of just forget about what the earlier prophet taught as if it never happened. It’s really quite perplexing but those are the mental gymnastics required to maintain faith in the current prophet as God’s chosen leader on earth. Most LDS don’t really think about it any deeper than that.
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
Well, I think it might be wise for you to change your personal interpretation for a couple reasons:
  1. Jesus did point out that the Sadducees did not understand the scriptures or the power of God. This has nothing to do with marriage, however. As you pointed out in your earlier post, this passage is about the Sadducees denial of resurrection, which is exactly what Jesus is talking about here. He is saying the Sadducees don’t understand the scriptures or the power of God because they deny resurrection.
  2. There is zero historical or scriptural evidence that the Jews, Jesus, or the Apostles ever believed in, taught about, or performed celestial marriages. There are zero records of celestial marriage either biblically or historically before Joseph Smith. So for you to assume this is what Jesus was talking about here is in reality a projection of post-1830’s LDS doctrine backwards onto 1st-century Christianity. This was an entirely new concept introduced by Joseph Smith and would be totally foreign to early Christians. I know LDS authorities may claim otherwise, but if they do they are talking nonsense with no evidence to back it up.
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Do you believe God married Adam and Eve?
 
It is the first of three questions to see if Catholics believe in eternal marriage.
 
It wouldn’t do to keep a concise written record, then there’s too much of a paper trail as the teachings change form one “prophet” to the next.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
It wouldn’t do to keep a concise written record, then there’s too much of a paper trail as the teachings change form one “prophet” to the next.
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Whenever I would ask a Mormon a question about their beliefs, the answer was “let me have the missionaries come over and talk to you”.
When I asked one guy why he couldn’t answer himself, he said things could have changed since he did his mission. He was only 34 years old!
 
mtolympus said:
It is the first of three questions to see if Catholics believe in eternal marriage.
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No, Catholics don’t believe in eternal marriage/pregnancy because Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven.
 
mtolympus said:
Do you believe God married Adam and Eve?
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If you’re going to make an eternal marriage argument based on Adam and Eve, good luck with that. I made the point that the concept of eternal marriage is not found in the bible, in Judaism, in early Christianity, or in any other historical sources until introduced by Joseph Smith. It was certainly never practiced by Jews or Christians. So if you have a counter argument to that, please just present it and the evidence you have. But if your argument is just a Mormon extrapolation and theoretical, that’s not going to be very convincing.

I’ve been on this forum for a long, long time and have debated with many LDS. A common thing they do when trying to make an argument is to ignore the points I bring up entirely rather than directly responding to those points as to why they think I might be wrong. It’s a way of talking over the other person without ever really listening, and LDS do it all of the time, just like politicians do whenever they are being asked a question they don’t like or don’t want to answer.
 
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Chris-Wa1 said:
If you’re going to make an eternal marriage argument based on Adam and Eve, good luck with that. I made the point that the concept of eternal marriage is not found in the bible
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Adam and Eve are in the bible.
Chris-Wa1 said:
I’ve been on this forum for a long, long time and have debated with many LDS. A common thing they do when trying to make an argument is to ignore the points I bring up entirely rather than directly responding to those points as to why they think I might be wrong. It’s a way of talking over the other person without ever really listening, and LDS do it all of the time, just like politicians do whenever they are being asked a question they don’t like or don’t want to answer.
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My evidence is found in three questions, however, if you do not want to answer my questions I will understand.

My first question is: Do you believe God married Adam and Eve?
 
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