Eloping?

[mamaslo]

OP, you sound like a very kind hearted person. My mother was very upset over how I did my ceremony. It wasn’t valid, he was divorced and it broke her heart, but she still came. She also talked to a priest about it. The priest told her to let me go.

My mother was right, the Holy Spirit did His best to get my attention, and I ignored it. Even if this man is perfect for you now, things come to light later, that cause huge issues. If you two are not able to figure out the cross you are picking up now, then there will be more heartache later.

That being said, maybe the good thing would be to just go ahead and take the dive and approach the subject. The family will be saddened, but they want what is best for your OH. That’s all. They may see the challenges ahead for you both. You are going to do this anyway, so including them the best you can, is good.

Trouble comes from other angles you cannot forsee anyway. I think you would try to figure a way to navigate whatever future trials. You are here talking to us, so I would think that if later on, he changes his mind about faith, you would love him enough to help him in his journey. (and he with you on your journey)

There just isn’t an easy way to prevent loss when something as major as faith doesn’t agree. But you can minimize the losses by just having the conversation with them. Get it over with. They may surprise you in a good way. I like you, and you are not even in my family . You are honest, and care about people. You are real, and even here talking to us. Very often I find contentions between the differing faiths.

You are getting some here as a matter of fact. The Catholic Church teaches about our journey. God is with us even when we do not acknowledge Him, but one day, He makes His presence known, but in the end, I will be asked how I used His gifts to treat his other children, and that includes you.

You are weighing out your future. There is always more to learn, and you are courageous to come here and talk to us about this. You have been here, I have seen you, so you knew, probably there would be folks who do not accept this as a valuable part of your and your OHs journey.

My advice, is to go ahead, both of you, and tell them. then give them time to pray and purcolate what you told them. People are surprising.

 

[maryjk]

Do they already know you are an atheist? If they do, this might not be as suprising to them as you think. I don’t know anyone Catholic (could be my small bubble world), who would EVER consider dating, let alone marrying, an atheist. Agnostic, sure. A total non believer, with no room for a different opinion? Nope, nuh-uh.

I am married to an atheist. When we married, I was not quite a lukewarm Catholic. I didn’t attend Mass, ever. I lived with my future husband. I used ABC. And we were married by a judge.

I never claimed to be an atheist, but I certainly couldn’t claim to be Catholic.

My parents knew, in fact, my parents weren’t the best Catholics either. We were very up front with them.

Now, 20 years later, I work for our local parish. We had our marriage convalidated. We use NFP. I teach VBS and Sunday school. I attend not only Sunday Mass and Mass on Holy Days, but we, as a family attend Easter Vigil. My husband is still an atheist but life has changed

 

[SwizzleStick]

OP, from the following thread, I see that you have been thinking about this for some time. It probably would have been helpful if your fiance had told his parents he is an atheist when you visited at Thanksgiving. To tell them that now AND to also tell him that he won’t be marrying in the Church is a double whammy. I don’t know that there is a way to ease the hurt.

I Don’t Want to Offend my Boyfriend’s Wonderful Family-Please Help!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=618631

 

[maryjk]

OP, from the following thread, I see that you have been thinking about this for some time. It probably would have been helpful if your fiance had told his parents he is an atheist when you visited at Thanksgiving. To tell them that now AND to also tell him that he won’t be marrying in the Church is a double whammy. I don’t know that there is a way to ease the hurt.

I Don’t Want to Offend my Boyfriend’s Wonderful Family-Please Help!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=618631

So in 5 months we went from I don’t want to offend my boyfriend’s family to it isn’t any of their business??

Again, he doesn’t sound so independent to me. It sounds more like he is afraid to tell his parents that he doesn’t believe. OR he is afraid to tell his girlfriend that he still has a sliver of belief.

And after reading most of the other thread, we do not need to mention that he might revert back to the faith if they have children. She has stated that they won’t have children, and if she gets pregnant, she will have an abortion. (and he is in agreement with this.)

 

[MaryHelene]

So in 5 months we went from I don’t want to offend my boyfriend’s family to it isn’t any of their business??

Again, he doesn’t sound so independent to me. It sounds more like he is afraid to tell his parents that he doesn’t believe. OR he is afraid to tell his girlfriend that he still has a sliver of belief.

And after reading most of the other thread, we do not need to mention that he might revert back to the faith if they have children. She has stated that they won’t have children, and if she gets pregnant, she will have an abortion. (and he is in agreement with this.)

I can’t be the only one wondering if this situation is even real.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So in 5 months we went from I don’t want to offend my boyfriend’s family to it isn’t any of their business??

Again, he doesn’t sound so independent to me. It sounds more like he is afraid to tell his parents that he doesn’t believe. OR he is afraid to tell his girlfriend that he still has a sliver of belief.

And after reading most of the other thread, we do not need to mention that he might revert back to the faith if they have children. She has stated that they won’t have children, and if she gets pregnant, she will have an abortion. (and he is in agreement with this.)

No, we did not go from not wanting to offend them to it not being any of their business in 5 months. That thread is about something completely different and was posted before I really knew them and before I understood anything about Catholicism. However, in 5 months I did get access to much better healthcare and feel that I could one day handle pregnancy. So as of right now we are hoping to have children one day. But yes, right now we have agreed that we would terminate a pregnancy. Although I’m not really sure what that has to do with anything.

But telling your family out of nowhere that you reject their faith is rude, antagonistic, and hurtful. And no, I don’t think that anyone is entitled to know his religious practices and beliefs, or lack thereof. That’s personal. When it comes to a wedding though, things change, because you are asking them to come support it.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I do want to take the advice about talking to a priest though. What is usually the best way to do that? Because I work in real estate my days/hours off constantly change. Do they take appointments from non parishers?

 

[PatriceA]

No, we did not go from not wanting to offend them to it not being any of their business in 5 months. That thread is about something completely different and was posted before I really knew them and before I understood anything about Catholicism. However, in 5 months I did get access to much better healthcare and feel that I could one day handle pregnancy. So as of right now we are hoping to have children one day. But yes, right now we have agreed that we would terminate a pregnancy. Although I’m not really sure what that has to do with anything.

But telling your family out of nowhere that you reject their faith is rude, antagonistic, and hurtful. And no, I don’t think that anyone is entitled to know his religious practices and beliefs, or lack thereof. That’s personal. When it comes to a wedding though, things change, because you are asking them to come support it.

No, it is actually the same issue. You want his family to accept that you are both atheists and accept your upcoming marriage. I wonder if you have gained any understanding at all about Catholicism in the time you’ve been here on CAF. I really think you being here was more about you wanting Catholics to understand people that are atheists than it was about you understanding Catholics. Are you prepared that his family may not come and support your wedding day?

 

[maryjk]

No, we did not go from not wanting to offend them to it not being any of their business in 5 months. That thread is about something completely different and was posted before I really knew them and before I understood anything about Catholicism.

You claimed at the time that you didn’t want to hurt their feelings. That you liked them. You also said that you had visited them a number of times. What has changed?

However, in 5 months I did get access to much better healthcare and feel that I could one day handle pregnancy. So as of right now we are hoping to have children one day. But yes, right now we have agreed that we would terminate a pregnancy. Although I’m not really sure what that has to do with anything.

It has to do with the fact that many people revert back to their faith after having children. If you will not be having children because you will have an abortion if you get pregnant, then people should know that.

But telling your family out of nowhere that you reject their faith is rude, antagonistic, and hurtful. And no, I don’t think that anyone is entitled to know his religious practices and beliefs, or lack thereof. That’s personal. When it comes to a wedding though, things change, because you are asking them to come support it.

Someone’s religious beliefs are part of who they are. Rejecting the beliefs of his parents will hurt, but lying to them will hurt more. And yes, he is lying to them. It is a lie of omission.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No, it is actually the same issue. You want his family to accept that you are both atheists and accept your upcoming marriage. I wonder if you have gained any understanding at all about Catholicism in the time you’ve been here on CAF. I really think you being here was more about you wanting Catholics to understand people that are atheists than it was about you understanding Catholics. Are you prepared that his family may not come and support your wedding day?

I’m trying to be ready for that, because that is a possibility. I have to be ready to accept that and know for sure exactly how I will feel, because if that happens it won’t be me that will be hurt. My fiance will need me. And frankly, right now he’s kind of burying his head in the sand about how this could end up. And really, if it were my family I may want to do the same thing.

I know that people will be hurt. In fact, chances are all of us will be. So right now I’m doing the best I can. I’m sorry if that isn’t good enough for you. But I want my fiance to be ok, I want any future children to be close to their grandparents, etc. No, it may not all work out, but at least I’m trying to minimize damage.

And honestly, that’s one of the many reasons that eloping is appealing. I could probabhly move on from his family not attending, but I’m not sure that he could. He wouldn’t look at them the same, and he may even have issues with them when it comes to letting them grandparent.

 

[MaryHelene]

I’m trying to be ready for that, because that is a possibility. I have to be ready to accept that and know for sure exactly how I will feel, because if that happens it won’t be me that will be hurt. My fiance will need me. And frankly, right now he’s kind of burying his head in the sand about how this could end up. And really, if it were my family I may want to do the same thing.

I know that people will be hurt. In fact, chances are all of us will be. So right now I’m doing the best I can. I’m sorry if that isn’t good enough for you. But I want my fiance to be ok, I want any future children to be close to their grandparents, etc. No, it may not all work out, but at least I’m trying to minimize damage.

And honestly, that’s one of the many reasons that eloping is appealing. I could probabhly move on from his family not attending, but I’m not sure that he could. He wouldn’t look at them the same, and he may even have issues with them when it comes to letting them grandparent.

So you plan to marry the kind of person who would cut his parents off from their grandchildren for staying true to their faith and moral convictions? Wow.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So you plan to marry the kind of person who would cut his parents off from their grandchildren for staying true to their faith and moral convictions? Wow.

Did I ever say that? Wow.

If they didn’t show up he would be deeply hurt. He’s spending his life with me, I will be the mother of any children he has, this is the biggest decision of his life, he loves me. If they couldn’t support him in yet yes, I do think that their relationship would change. Just as yours would with your parents if they told you your marriage to your husband was so immoral that they couldn’t even show up. But I don’t ever see him cutting them out. The loss of closeness wouldn’t even be a conscious or vindictive decision, just a natural reaction to that kind of pain.

 

[MaryHelene]

I guess I’m having a hard time understanding your POV. As I see it, it’s your fiance that’s making the choice to exclude his family and reject them. I would feel so deeply disappointed and hurt if one of my children rejected their faith so vehemently.

 

[maryjk]

And honestly, that’s one of the many reasons that eloping is appealing. I could probabhly move on from his family not attending, but I’m not sure that he could. He wouldn’t look at them the same, and he may even have issues with them when it comes to letting them grandparent.

So you plan to marry the kind of person who would cut his parents off from their grandchildren for staying true to their faith and moral convictions? Wow.

Did I ever say that? Wow.

Yes, you did say that.

If they didn’t show up he would be deeply hurt. He’s spending his life with me, I will be the mother of any children he has, this is the biggest decision of his life, he loves me. If they couldn’t support him in yet yes, I do think that their relationship would change. Just as yours would with your parents if they told you your marriage to your husband was so immoral that they couldn’t even show up. But I don’t ever see him cutting them out. The loss of closeness wouldn’t even be a conscious or vindictive decision, just a natural reaction to that kind of pain.

So you expect them to welcome you into the family, show up to a wedding, if you decide to have one, and not be upset if you don’t, not comment or mention the fact that their son, that they raised, has left their faith, and happily go along with whatever you do?

And if they don’t, you would understand if your boyfriend cut them off from any grandchildren you might have?

Right now, he can’t even tell them that he isn’t Catholic, that he is an atheist. I guess I wouldn’t worry about him standing up to them about anything else.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I guess I’m having a hard time understanding your POV. As I see it, it’s your fiance that’s making the choice to exclude his family and reject them. I would feel so deeply disappointed and hurt if one of my children rejected their faith so vehemently.

I understand. But he didn’t choose to not believe. He just never really could. Then he met someone who also didn’t believe. This is not to spite his family. Because a church wedding is out of the question I’m just trying to get ideas and figure out where to go from here.

I’m sorry if my previous posts towards you were a bit heated. I’m just frustrated with this whole situation, and of course worried about seeing my fiance hurt.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Yes, you did say that.
So you expect them to welcome you into the family, show up to a wedding, if you decide to have one, and not be upset if you don’t, not comment or mention the fact that their son, that they raised, has left their faith, and happily go along with whatever you do?

And if they don’t, you would understand if your boyfriend cut them off from any grandchildren you might have?

Right now, he can’t even tell them that he isn’t Catholic, that he is an atheist. I guess I wouldn’t worry about him standing up to them about anything else.

Actually, I made it pretty clear that I don’t see him cutting them off. And as I have also made clear many times this is not their fault and I understand that they aren’t in a great position.

But I can’t speak for my fiance. I know him and I know how hurt he will be. And I do know that if they can’t accept his marriage he’s going to do what any good man would and pick his wife over his family of origin.

Eloping kind of takes the pressure off of everyone.

You seem to be happy to point out how I’m so terrible for wanting to get married, but you haven’t presented a good alternative.

 

[sj2]

Okay, I posted a while back that as a Catholic parent, I’d be fine if my atheist son invited me to his elopement. I think marriage is a good thing. How I’d feel about his atheism is a different story, but that’s not what you are asking about. So, I’m sort of supporting your choices, but if you want a Catholic parent’s perspetive on some of the other things you wrote, here goes . . . (I’m just giving you perspective so you won’t be blindsided by his parents’ reactions.)

But telling your family out of nowhere that you reject their faith is rude, antagonistic, and hurtful.

I respectfully disagree. Telling a stranger you reject their faith is all those things. Telling your family is just par for course in a normal loving family. You disagree, but you wanted a Catholic parent’s perspective. It’d be like my kid changing jobs without telling me. Sure, they don’t have to tell me, but what the heck is so hideously broken and defective about our relationship that something so important is omitted?

Rude? No way! He’s their son. If he says it sensitively, there is no rudeness involved.

Antagonistic? You said they were nice people, so no. No parent would think their grown child is just trying pick a fight (unless he’s 15, grumpy, hormonal, and just, well, regularly antagonistic).

Hurtful? Well, yes, but that’s life. As I mentioned before, it’ll come up. It’s not as private and personal as you think.

And no, I don’t think that anyone is entitled to know his religious practices and beliefs, or lack thereof.

Entitled? No. Just as you are not entitled to good wishes on your wedding. Your fiance is not entitled to any phone calls from his own mother. I’m not entitled to know where my child is employed. No one is entitled to know anything. You don’t have to tell them anything. They don’t have to tell you anything. But that’s not what you want, right? By withholding this you may be sparing feelings, but you are defining the relationship between your families in a closed-off way. But it’s totally in your right. In fact, if they were abusive or ugly to you, I’d support this type of separation. So that’s your choice. Just don’t come back to the forum surprised that they “won’t talk to us anymore.” (I don’t mean to be flippant. That’d be sad and they would be wrong, but they would be kind of following your cues a bit)

That’s personal. When it comes to a wedding though, things change, because you are asking them to come support it.

It’s personal? That’s your perspective, but again, if you want to know a Catholic perspective . . . religion is anything but private and personal. We gather as a community every Sunday. We baptize even our littlest babies. We pray with not only our neighbors but *with *angels and Saints! (That’d blow my mind as an atheist). We confess our sins, not in the privacy of our bedrooms, but we seek out a priest. Some religious people believe religion IS a personal thing, “just me and Jesus,” but that’s not really a Catholic worldview.

Does your fiance put as much time and thought into this as you do? Maybe he knows his parents better and thinks they’ll take it all in stride and that’s why he isn’t the one on here debating this whole thing.

You’ll never know if the wound has healed if you don’t yank off the bandage and take a look.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Okay, I posted a while back that as a Catholic parent, I’d be fine if my atheist son invited me to his elopement. I think marriage is a good thing. How I’d feel about his atheism is a different story, but that’s not what you are asking about. So, I’m sort of supporting your choices, but if you want a Catholic parent’s perspetive on some of the other things you wrote, here goes . . . (I’m just giving you perspective so you won’t be blindsided by his parents’ reactions.)

I respectfully disagree. Telling a stranger you reject their faith is all those things. Telling your family is just par for course in a normal loving family. You disagree, but you wanted a Catholic parent’s perspective. It’d be like my kid changing jobs without telling me. Sure, they don’t have to tell me, but what the heck is so hideously broken and defective about our relationship that something so important is omitted?

Rude? No way! He’s their son. If he says it sensitively, there is no rudeness involved.

Antagonistic? You said they were nice people, so no. No parent would think their grown child is just trying pick a fight (unless he’s 15, grumpy, hormonal, and just, well, regularly antagonistic).

Hurtful? Well, yes, but that’s life. As I mentioned before, it’ll come up. It’s not as private and personal as you think.

Entitled? No. Just as you are not entitled to good wishes on your wedding. Your fiance is not entitled to any phone calls from his own mother. I’m not entitled to know where my child is employed. No one is entitled to know anything. You don’t have to tell them anything. They don’t have to tell you anything. But that’s not what you want, right? By withholding this you may be sparing feelings, but you are defining the relationship between your families in a closed-off way. But it’s totally in your right. In fact, if they were abusive or ugly to you, I’d support this type of separation. So that’s your choice. Just don’t come back to the forum surprised that they “won’t talk to us anymore.” (I don’t mean to be flippant. That’d be sad and they would be wrong, but they would be kind of following your cues a bit)

It’s personal? That’s your perspective, but again, if you want to know a Catholic perspective . . . religion is anything but private and personal. We gather as a community every Sunday. We baptize even our littlest babies. We pray with not only our neighbors but *with *angels and Saints! (That’d blow my mind as an atheist). We confess our sins, not in the privacy of our bedrooms, but we seek out a priest. Some religious people believe religion IS a personal thing, “just me and Jesus,” but that’s not really a Catholic worldview.

Does your fiance put as much time and thought into this as you do? Maybe he knows his parents better and thinks they’ll take it all in stride and that’s why he isn’t the one on here debating this whole thing.

You’ll never know if the wound has healed if you don’t yank off the bandage and take a look.

Thank you so much for your perspective. I don’t agree with all of it, but its certainly a lot to consider. I’m actually emailing it to my FH right now.

 

[PatriceA]

Actually, I made it pretty clear that I don’t see him cutting them off. And as I have also made clear many times this is not their fault and I understand that they aren’t in a great position.

But I can’t speak for my fiance. I know him and I know how hurt he will be. And I do know that if they can’t accept his marriage he’s going to do what any good man would and pick his wife over his family of origin.

Eloping kind of takes the pressure off of everyone.

You seem to be happy to point out how I’m so terrible for wanting to get married, but you haven’t presented a good alternative.

No, actually eloping at this point puts MORE pressure on everyone.

Your fiance has to get his head out of the sand as you described him to be, and have the conversation with his parents about his atheism and everything else needs to be put on the back burner. You have to give his parents time to digest all of this before running off and eloping. They may be ok with the info, and want to be at your wedding ceremony no matter what it may look like. Or they may never want to be there. But if you don’t give them the time to digest this information and discern how much or how little they want to be involved in any wedding you choose by eloping as soon as possible, you’ve added even more hurt feelings and resentment. You’ve taken the decision out of their hands and made it for them. You have to give them the chance at least to make the decision on their own.

 

[sj2]

I also have to admit, my husband wasn’t really forth coming about the fact that he wasn’t a practicing Mormon anymore. He didn’t say, “Mom, Dad, I’m leaving the Mormon church.” Partly because he never felt that strongly about it–on the fence, you know?

But he was up front about all his actions: He didn’t go on a mission (a big heart break for his family. They felt like failures and sort of mourned his choice, but they got over it). He was marrying a Catholic. We attend Catholic church. The kids go to Catholic school. He will happily attend Mormon services when visiting them, but he does not go at home.

So, I’m not advocating your fiance lay out every reason why he can’t be Catholic to them. But he shouldn’t hide anything.

We feel good about our choices. It was a bit rough at the beginning (my MIL cried when we got engaged–and not tears of joy. Ah, I laugh about that now) We have no worries. This is the place you want to be–free.