Eloping?

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but I’m fairly certain that Catholic priests cannot perform the service you and Della seem to be suggesting.

Not perform. Witness.

Like I said, I don’t know if it’s possible. But I do know priests/deacons witness inter-faith marriages. I don’t know what their roles are in such weddings. I don’t know what they say or don’t say. I know know what kind of permission they need to so such things. I do think it’s worth at least an inquiry.

And I wouldn’t rely on anything I got off the internet for such a major decision. I know that when it came to my particulars and wedding, internet information was all over the place.

 

[aloe]

Now I’m confused and scouring the internet…

A simple quick trip up to the church could be a better use of your time, since you don’t have a lot of extra to spare. I know when I had a religious question that had conflicting answers I searched online but it wasn’t good enough. When I went to the church and spoke to the priest it wasn’t near as complicated as I, or anyone else, wanted to make it. It was a helpful conversation.
And obviously his parents care greatly about you, their son, your engagement, and your future marriage so this is very kind of you to think of them with care as well in this. And also it could help you figure out what you want to do for sure, as you are on the fence about if you should have a traditional wedding or elope or exactly just what you want to do.

 

[SanctaMommy]

Sanctamommy, you are missing the point here, she is an atheist! She will not be answering to God for the lack of a priest at her ATHEIST wedding or for her choice to “shack-up”. Admonishing the sinner works when we are talking about Christians.

The groom is a baptized Christian and a confirmed Catholic. He does not just get to “decide” that he has not received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The groom is a baptized Christian and a confirmed Catholic. He does not just get to “decide” that he has not received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

But he does get to decide who and how to marry. And I’m still unsure of what it is you’re trying to say.

 

[Della]

A simple quick trip up to the church could be a better use of your time, since you don’t have a lot of extra to spare. I know when I had a religious question that had conflicting answers I searched online but it wasn’t good enough. When I went to the church and spoke to the priest it wasn’t near as complicated as I, or anyone else, wanted to make it. It was a helpful conversation.
And obviously his parents care greatly about you, their son, your engagement, and your future marriage so this is very kind of you to think of them with care as well in this. And also it could help you figure out what you want to do for sure, as you are on the fence about if you should have a traditional wedding or elope or exactly just what you want to do.

I agree. Talk to the priest first. At least you’ll be getting answers from someone who deals with these sorts of family situations all the time. What can it hurt?

 

[SanctaMommy]

But he does get to decide who and how to marry. And I’m still unsure of what it is you’re trying to say.

What I am saying is that no matter how much he says he isn’t, your husband is and will remain a Catholic and will forever be bound by Cannon Law. It is as intrinsic to him as his DNA. That today he decides to play atheist means nothing other than that he is in a state of mortal sin.

God has granted us free will - and obviously your fiance is taking advantage of this. It is true that he is able to enter into a legal, marriage-like contract with you via the government. But that doesn’t make it right and it does not mean that his soul will not always yearn for the Truth.

 

[Havard]

Not perform. Witness.

Yeah… When I said “I don’t believe that’s a service priests can perform”, it was just a nice way of saying “I’m pretty sure they aren’t allowed to do that.”

 

[DhuAlQarnayn]

I didn’t think so either. And I didn’t think just having a priest or deacon there would make it valid. Now I’m confused and scouring the internet…

If neither of you is a practicing Catholic, a priest will not be able to get dispensations for you to marry validly (and from what you’ve said, your fiance doesn’t want to ask for them anyway). From the standpoint of validity, it makes no difference whether you get a priest to witness the vows or not.

I’m a bit confused by the advice here in any case since if he (or you) should choose to become a practicing Catholic at any point in the future, you can then just get the marriage convalidated. Especially if neither of you have been married before, this is normally a very simple process and can be arranged in a week or 10 days.

 

[SummerSmiles]

The groom is a baptized Christian and a confirmed Catholic. He does not just get to “decide” that he has not received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

So you’re saying that they should just go through the motions to get it validated in the church? If they’re going to have a valid marriage, they’d have to get married using valid Catholic vows, which include being open to life and accepting children as God chooses, as well as promising to raise any children Catholic. Neither the OP nor her fiancee have any intention of doing either of these things because they don’t believe. You’d rather them stand up at the altar in front of their friends, family, and God and lie to everyone there?

I have to say that while I don’t agree with the OP, I respect that she’s not willing to stand up and have her vows include lies at her own wedding. At least she has enough respect for the CC that she won’t promise to do something that she knows she has no intention of following through on.

 

[SanctaMommy]

You’d rather them stand up at the altar in front of their friends, family, and God and lie to everyone there?

No. He should not marry until he can do so in full accordance with Cannon Law. What he needs to do is pray, study, attend Mass and beg God to help him come to terms with his baptism, not just give up on faith when it gets difficult.

 

[faithfully]

He does not believe in God, his family knows that he does not go to or participate in mass, but they don’t know that he doesn’t believe it all.

Hey Blue Eye’s… THIS is your problem. While, I’m sure deciding how to spend your available funds is a daunting task, it’s really not a problem. You decide what kind of wedding/elopement. Location, date, time, clothing, food, friends. You make it fit into a budget.

'm going to suggest, if you two are old enough and mature enough to get married and make grown up decisions, GET ON IT! Share your grown up decisions.

I’m sure you will get adequate information from both sides of the family that will direct you in your planning. Once you KNOW how everyone is going to respond, then it will likely be very obvious what you would like to actually do to meet your wedding goals.

There are a handful of results you may get from providing the information. Personally, I think if his parents are “uber Catholic” he is in for an intervention of sorts. They may irrationally blame you for his falling. Or they may just decide to move forward and pray. You won’t know until you both actually step forward and admit to who you are.

I imagine he’s trying to spare his parents some pain (as you are), and that he doesn’t want the fight. We all get that no one WANTS to add drama to their life. But life wouldn’t be life if it were easy. That I know for sure

If he can’t bring himself to tell his parents he’s an atheist, then you just tell them you are not planning a church wedding. Hear their response, go from there.

I

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No. He should not marry until he can do so in full accordance with Cannon Law. What he needs to do is pray, study, attend Mass and beg God to help him come to terms with his baptism, not just give up on faith when it gets difficult.

First off, he did not just “give up”. He was just never able to believe, despite trying his entire life. I am in the same position. You cannot force yourself to believe, it just doesn’t work that way. It isn’t a choice.

Second, do you know how ridiculous it sounds to say that a person should put having a family on hold until they can manage to believe a religion that they don’t believe in? That would be like me suddenly saying that I won’t get married until I can believe in and abide by Islam. What would even be the motivation for that?

Just because our parents believe something or we are raised a certain way does not obligate us to carry that on. We are all our own people.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…It was actually on this site that I learned the rules were changed (in 2009 I think) so that a person can formally leave the church, but they are still bound to the rules of marriage. …

Actually, I’m not sure that is so. I think that is actually backwards. I think the rules changed so that there is no formal way to leave the Church, so once a Catholic, always a Catholic, and always bound by the rules. I’ll do some checking to see if I can find something to confirm my understanding or to confirm that I am completely wrong.

 

[SanctaMommy]

Just because our parents believe something or we are raised a certain way does not obligate us to carry that on. We are all our own people.

And this is where your lack of understanding of the Catholic faith becomes problematic. Because, yes, your future husband is obligated to “carry that on” because of his baptism and confirmation. He is his own person, but through the gift of baptism his faith is set in stone.

 

[SanctaMommy]

Second, do you know how ridiculous it sounds to say that a person should put having a family on hold until they can manage to believe a religion that they don’t believe in?

But this is not the case. Your fiance needs to accept the religion that he absolutely already IS and WILL ALWAYS BE, not try to believe in a new one.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Incorrect. Priests will generally counsel family members to attend OR NOT to attend. It can very well lead to scandal if a Catholic attends an invalid wedding of a Catholic.

Honestly, I find this whole thread a bit strange. An atheist asking for advice from Catholics on how to proceed in eloping with a former Catholic that is now a practicing atheist himself and his very Catholic family is not aware of the situation. The couple plans to spring the news of the sons’s now non belief of God AND their elopement plans?? No advice in the world can possibly make this situation better until the family is aware of the son’s beliefs. Personally, it would take awhile for me to get over that shock if it was my child. I would not appreciate being informed of any elopement or small wedding plans until I had the chance to digest that news. I think the best advice is to let the family heal from the shock before proceeding with any further advice about an elopement. And the next best advice is to seek advice from non-Catholics about an elopment, not on a Catholic message board.

Yes, it does seem like an awful lot to spring on an unsuspecting family.

Personally, I find the whole thread very sad too. The whole situation is sad because of all the hurt, bewilderment and sense of loss that will be involved for the family. I cannot imagine that there is a good way to handle this situation.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

But this is not the case. Your fiance needs to accept the religion that he absolutely already IS and WILL ALWAYS BE, not try to believe in a new one.

Wow. Ok. You’re speaking pretty poorly of my fiance and I’m afraid this is a debate that I’m going to have to bow out of before I say something ban worthy.

But I hope that you realize that he is not trying to believe a new religion, he just doesn’t believe what his parents do. And he isn’t obligated to pretend like he does just because his parents chose to have him baptized. And really, if he were to practice the religion even though he has no belief just because his parents do, that wouldn’t really mean anything.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…My question was essentially, what would be the best way possible to get married and cause as little hurt and stress as possible for everyone involved. You didn’t even attempt to answer that, you just took to insults.

I don’t know how to answer that. No matter what you do, I think there will be huge heartache involved. I’m sorry.

 

[SanctaMommy]

Wow. Ok. You’re speaking pretty poorly of my fiance and I’m afraid this is a debate that I’m going to have to bow out of this argument before I say something ban worthy.

But I hope that you realize that he is not trying to believe a new religion, he just doesn’t believe what his parents do. And he isn’t obligated to pretend like he does just because his parents chose to have him baptized. And really, if he were to practice the religion even though he has no belief just because his parents do, that wouldn’t really mean anything.

Obedience to God despite our human doubts and questions means something - it absolutely means something.

We are all, at one time or another, the doubting Thomas. We all go through periods of spiritual dryness. That doesn’t mean we flush the gift of Catholicism down the toilet. Unlike the Protestant faiths, it’s not all about “how you feel.” Constant prayer and obedience go a long way.

I will pray for you both.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…I really feel for those parents. The work, dedication, love and sacrifice that goes into instilling the Christian faith…only to see it tossed to the wind and denied to the future generations of your family members, OUCH, OUCH! Hope it all goes as smoothly as it possibly can.

This.

:sad_yes: