EMHC's....what should the bare minimums be...for real!!

[michaeldaniels]

As traditionalist, we are used to going to The TLM, kneeling reverently at the Altar Rail and receiving The Most Blessed Sacrament on our tongues. In the present day OF of the Mass, the Priest is no longer the only one who distributes Holy Communion…they have enlisted the aid of EMHC…this thread is not to discuss whether or not we should have EMHC even though we know the practice is widely abused…however, this is a more in depth look at EMHC and what the minimum qualifications should be. Please feel free to chime in.

I know all it takes is the approval of a Bishop for someone to be an approved EMHC…however through investigation, I have uncovered that some of the EMHC, including some people that you all know, are in fact non-practicing Catholics and hold an anti-Catholic POV on a lot of our doctrines and beliefs and Traditions. With that said, should there not be some type of pre-requisites requiring that these people be orthodox followers of the faith…and have to sign a profession of faith that encompasses the core belies of The Catholic Church…and by signing that profession of faith, they acknowledge that if they are dishonest even the slightest bit, then they are Excommunicated Latæ Sententiæ…and furthermore, if at any time while serving as a EMHC, if they should begin to develop doubts about their faith or just plain out fail to believe in certain parts of it, they will be required to resign immediately or they will be excommunicated Latæ Sententiæ?

I personally find it an abomination that these people have the audacity to touch countless Hosts and give them to Faithful Catholics who expect to be receiving The Most Blessed Sacrament from a practicing Catholic

What do you all think?

 

[Indyann]

When this poster read your post, the first thought that occured was an old adage, “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth”. Now twist this and make of it what you will.

Did you notice, no I’s in this post?

 

[baltobetsy]

Well, since the Sacrament is confected without regard to the state of the celebrating priest’s soul (see Donatist heresy), and every single one of us is grossly unworthy to receive Holy Communion at all, it seems quite inappropriate to put all kinds of restrictions on the mental processes of EMHCs. I don’t “expect to be receiving the Most Blessed Sacrament from a practicing Catholic.” It’s all about Jesus, and not about the minister.

(Just the kind of liberal garbage you’d expect from N.O., people, right?)

Betsy

 

[tweetymom]

Thank you for starting this thread! God Bless you on your journey with Jesus.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Actually it is (except about the NO part…I actually know some faithful, practicing NO Catholics)…I am actually disgusted that you care so little about Christ that you are indifferent to how He is handled by people in the Consecrated Eucharist…and my argument has nothing to do with a valid Sacrament…that is of course if the Priest’s proper intent is not present, which would invalidate the Sacrament…no what I am talking about is how 40+ years ago, we actually believed in the True Presence and would kneel before it and would take every precaution not to stain it with our sinful bodies…now apparently it doesn’t matter. Your apathy and the apathy of many Catholics makes that very clear…according to your logic, it wouldn’t matter if a satanist distributed Holy Communion (while they stole some of them to use for Black Masses) because it is just about you and Jesus…i am sick and tired of this cookie cutter crayon theology you liberal modernist have…Have the decency if you don’t respect anything else in the Church, please respect The Eucharist…this unbelievable

(Just the kind of liberal garbage you’d expect from N.O., people, right?)

Betsy

 

[bpbasilphx]

\we actually believed in the True Presence and would kneel before it and would take every precaution not to stain it with our sinful bodies\

**Who’s WE?

Eastern Catholics do not normally kneel at the Liturgy or Communion.

Jesus said that sin starts in the soul, not the body.

The priest is a sinner, too, don’t forget, and he gives the Holy Mysteries to sinners such as me and you.

In any case, the Holy Mysteries purify, and cannot themselves be stained.**

 

[michaeldaniels]

I understand and agree…to some extent…however, there is a huge difference between being a sinner…which we all are, including the Pope…and being a formal and material heretic. There is a huge difference between the two…and all I am saying is out of respect and reverence for The Most Blessed Sacrament, that those people who are directly opposed to the Church, hence non-practicing Catholics, should not be allowed to be a EMHC

\we actually believed in the True Presence and would kneel before it and would take every precaution not to stain it with our sinful bodies\

**Who’s WE?

Eastern Catholics do not normally kneel at the Liturgy or Communion.

Jesus said that sin starts in the soul, not the body.

The priest is a sinner, too, don’t forget, and he gives the Holy Mysteries to sinners such as me and you.

In any case, the Holy Mysteries purify, and cannot themselves be stained.**

 

[FromTheAshes777]

While I don’t necessarily agree with everything in the original post of this thread, I do agree that it is perfectly reasonable to expect an EMHC to be a person who is faithful to the Church and Her teachings. Does this person half to be perfect? No, of course not.

A person who out right defies large portions of Catholic doctrine (required tenets of the Catholic faith) and vocally does so, probably should not be publicly representing the Church, much less distributing the Eucharist as an EMHC.

In my opinion it’s not really a far cry from a Priest inviting a local minister from a Protestant congregation to preach the homily in his place. It just doesn’t make much sense and simply isn’t wise in helping to maintain a healthy parish. It sends a message to all in the parish that what that EMHC believes and is vocal about is ok, and heterodoxy is not ever ok when one is representing the Church in a public setting.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Well spoken…I agree

While I don’t necessarily agree with everything in the original post of this thread, I do agree that it is perfectly reasonable to expect an EMHC to be a person who is faithful to the Church and Her teachings. Does this person half to be perfect? No, of course not.

A person who out right defies large portions of Catholic doctrine (required tenets of the Catholic faith) and vocally does so, probably should not be publicly representing the Church, much less distributing the Eucharist as an EMHC.

In my opinion it’s not really a far cry from a Priest inviting a local minister from a Protestant congregation to preach the homily in his place. It just doesn’t make much sense and simply isn’t wise in helping to maintain a healthy parish. It sends a message to all in the parish that what that EMHC believes and is vocal about is ok, and heterodoxy is not ever ok when one is representing the Church in a public setting.

 

[adstrinity]

Bare minimums for real? NO EMHC’s EVER!!!

Seriously.

“We need EMHC’s because we have such a large parish.” (We’re Special!)
– No, you need priests all the more. Why do you need EMHCs? So you don’t have to wait? Patience is a virtue. The Mass has been disregarded and disrespected and made into a LOOK AT ME!!! pride parade. It would do well that all are patient and made to wait and prepare one’s heart all the more for Jesus. Longing for Jesus and your heart is looking so forward to this before being able to finally receive Him would be a great joy for everybody!! What is the unfortunate norm now? Lining up, grabing your coat, putting your grubby little hands (that have touched your eyes and shaken the hands of everybody around you) on GOD THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, making some sort of vague sign of the cross while marching out of the church. Right after you receive Jesus. Instead of going back to your pew and meditating that you just ate, You Ate, YOU ATE, your Creator. YOU. ATE. HIM. …Though, mabye you’re leaving because you can’t concentrate on meditation because some magpie is warbling some hymn, none of which the rest of the congregation has any interest in.

“We need EMHC’s because of the priest shortage. Pray for more priestly vocations.”
–Hmmm…no. Again. This goes to the first objection. You know what would get me to pray for more priests? Having to wait to receive the Eucharist. EMHC’s are much too instant gratification for our souls. Why should we have to fast or put ourselves out at all, church doesn’t even make me wait…and, can’t they just hurry up, as soon as communion is over we can leave…or maybe I’ll stay, yeah, yeah, I’ll let the congregation enjoy my presence some more. Besides, I need to talk with so and so after church about something and that person is here now. At least I can sit down and relax after going up to communion.

I’ve mentioned it before in another thread, EMHC’s (who themselves may have touched their eyes or picked at a scab and then felt the need to touch the hands or hug everybody, (and I’m including hugging in the germs because who knows what has touched their clothes and what clothes they are touching)) are probably not the best Catholics anyway because if they were, they would realize that they are not NEEDED (exception: Masses where there are over 250 people. NOT parishes. Masses. Maybe one for every 250 people. MAYBE.). They oftimes agrandize themselves to think they are necesary and they are special. I am going off something that happened on this forum. A woman kept saying she was a Eucharistic Minister and how she gets so much out of going to parishoners houses to give the Blessed Sacrament and blah blah blah and people kept point out to her, beating their head against a wall, she was a Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion; she is not needed, she is an invention. Also, they tend to be women. And, women who aren’t dressed well (showing the proper respect to God).

“Oh, how horrible!!! Somebody isn’t dressed to your standards! Only those who can afford the best should serve God!”
–Well, yeah. If you don’t have the right clothes, and, I am talking lay people. In America, especially, don’t distribute God. You can serve Him by being humble and wait to receive him from a priest.

“You don’t know! Maybe they wear the track suits or jeans because they have some horrible affliction and it’s how they can be comfortable!”
–If they need to be comfortable, they shouldn’t be standing saying, “The Body of Christ,” to all who trudge up to them.

Furthermore, what happens to the EMHC’s hands AFTER they are done handling God? In the TLM, the priests forefinger and thumb never leave each other unless they grab another Host once they concencrate until after Mass. The same cannot be said about modern priests…who will pay for that in Purgatory. I don’t think the EMHC’s really understand what it is they are doing. If they do, they may view it as a novelty. I really don’t think that EMHC are aware of Catholicism because if they were, they would NOT agree to be EMHC’s.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

As traditionalist, we are used to going to The TLM, kneeling reverently at the Altar Rail and receiving The Most Blessed Sacrament on our tongues. In the present day OF of the Mass, the Priest is no longer the only one who distributes Holy Communion…they have enlisted the aid of EMHC…this thread is not to discuss whether or not we should have EMHC even though we know the practice is widely abused…however, this is a more in depth look at EMHC and what the minimum qualifications should be. Please feel free to chime in.

I know all it takes is the approval of a Bishop for someone to be an approved EMHC…however through investigation, I have uncovered that some of the EMHC, including some people that you all know, are in fact non-practicing Catholics and hold an anti-Catholic POV on a lot of our doctrines and beliefs and Traditions. With that said, should there not be some type of pre-requisites requiring that these people be orthodox followers of the faith…and have to sign a profession of faith that encompasses the core belies of The Catholic Church…and by signing that profession of faith, they acknowledge that if they are dishonest even the slightest bit, then they are Excommunicated Latæ Sententiæ…and furthermore, if at any time while serving as a EMHC, if they should begin to develop doubts about their faith or just plain out fail to believe in certain parts of it, they will be required to resign immediately or they will be excommunicated Latæ Sententiæ?

I personally find it an abomination that these people have the audacity to touch countless Hosts and give them to Faithful Catholics who expect to be receiving The Most Blessed Sacrament from a practicing Catholic

What do you all think?

I don’t know how things are done in your diocese, but where I come from all of your objections would be considered valid reasons for not commissioning (or decommissioning) an EMHC. You are absolutely correct in assuming that EMHCs should have a good Catholic Standing in the community. They should be good, practicing Catholics. I am an EMHC, and that is how we were instructed. As far as signing a statement of beliefs, well, that seems to go a little too far, a little too much like a witch hunt. However, if someone, who in the opinion of the Pastor is espousing or teaching beliefs that would be deemed heretical by the Catholic Church, then again, that person should be suspended or corrected in their POV by the Pastor.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

I don’t know how things are done in your diocese, but where I come from all of your objections would be considered valid reasons for not commissioning (or decommissioning) an EMHC. You are absolutely correct in assuming that EMHCs should have a good Catholic Standing in the community. They should be good, practicing Catholics. I am an EMHC, and that is how we were instructed. As far as signing a statement of beliefs, well, that seems to go a little too far, a little too much like a witch hunt. However, if someone, who in the opinion of the Pastor is espousing or teaching beliefs that would be deemed heretical by the Catholic Church, then again, that person should be suspended or corrected in their POV by the Pastor.

my sentiments exactly.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

\we actually believed in the True Presence and would kneel before it and would take every precaution not to stain it with our sinful bodies\

**Who’s WE?

Eastern Catholics do not normally kneel at the Liturgy or Communion.

Jesus said that sin starts in the soul, not the body.

The priest is a sinner, too, don’t forget, and he gives the Holy Mysteries to sinners such as me and you.

In any case, the Holy Mysteries purify, and cannot themselves be stained.**

This bears repeating.

 

[OraLabora]

I have uncovered that some of the EMHC, including some people that you all know, are in fact non-practicing Catholics

Forgive me for not understanding your logic here, but if they are EMHC, and in church distributing communion, how can they be “non-practicing”?

Or is it that you have standards as well on what consists of “practicing”?

I suspect that you mean that they are “dissident” Catholics.

But that still makes them Catholic by virtue of their baptism. It may however mean they’re not in communion depending on severity of the issues.

But then this isn’t a teaching ministry AFAIK. What’s essential is a real belief in the Real Presence, treating the Host reverently, not living openly in scandal (i.e. not thumbing your nose openly to major issues of doctrine), and if one holds an opinion different to Church teaching (on some minor issues I do, even though I make an effort to conform to the teaching), one should keep it to one’s self especially when bringing communion to the shut-ins.

That said I think EMHCs are way over used. They are used to make sure read to 'em and feed 'em in no more than 1 hour flat. Most parish Masses I have been to could surely be handled by a single priest. Large assemblies are the exception as otherwise noted.

I would also make an exception for bringing communion to shut-ins. We shouldn’t let the shortage of priests deprive those who hunger for it the most, the comfort and grace of the Eucharist. With the priest shortage, priests in large rural parishes like mine would have a hard time keeping up with distribution to shut-ins.

But in general, at your average parish Mass, I’m quite prepared for Mass to last 10 minutes longer so the priest can distribute to everyone. The one that really gets my goat is weekday Mass that I attend about once a week. Do you really need an EMHC (who is also female… and the altar server) to distribute communion to a handful? It would only take about 3 minutes more without her…

 

[SpaceNeedle]

I do find myself feeling ill about this very matter.

We have three EHMCs who are from last year’s RCIA class. Yes, they are confirmed Catholics now, but goodness gracious, I speak to them regularly at length and there is just so, so much they don’t understand. And they don’t seem to have any interest whatsoever in learning more. They never attend our community catechesis, nor partipate in any activities where a special speaker might come or whathaveyou.

The flip side is, am I lacking in charity by having these thoughts?

 

[nsper7]

– No, you need priests all the more. Why do you need EMHCs? So you don’t have to wait? Patience is a virtue. The Mass has been disregarded and disrespected and made into a LOOK AT ME!!! pride parade. It would do well that all are patient and made to wait and prepare one’s heart all the more for Jesus. Longing for Jesus and your heart is looking so forward to this before being able to finally receive Him would be a great joy for everybody!! What is the unfortunate norm now? Lining up, grabing your coat, putting your grubby little hands (that have touched your eyes and shaken the hands of everybody around you) on GOD THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, making some sort of vague sign of the cross while marching out of the church. Right after you receive Jesus. Instead of going back to your pew and meditating that you just ate, You Ate, YOU ATE, your Creator. YOU. ATE. HIM. …Though, mabye you’re leaving because you can’t concentrate on meditation because some magpie is warbling some hymn, none of which the rest of the congregation has any interest in.

What does people leaving Mass early (thus missing out on the Priest’s blessing) have to do with EMHCs? Sure, people can be impatient, but these are two separate issues I think. My understanding is that leaving Mass early, except for a valid reason, is wrong.

I’ve mentioned it before in another thread, EMHC’s (who themselves may have touched their eyes or picked at a scab and then felt the need to touch the hands or hug everybody, (and I’m including hugging in the germs because who knows what has touched their clothes and what clothes they are touching)) are probably not the best Catholics anyway because if they were, they would realize that they are not NEEDED (exception: Masses where there are over 250 people. NOT parishes. Masses. Maybe one for every 250 people. MAYBE.). They oftimes agrandize themselves to think they are necesary and they are special. I am going off something that happened on this forum. A woman kept saying she was a Eucharistic Minister and how she gets so much out of going to parishoners houses to give the Blessed Sacrament and blah blah blah and people kept point out to her, beating their head against a wall, she was a Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion; she is not needed, she is an invention. Also, they tend to be women. And, women who aren’t dressed well (showing the proper respect to God).

Who decides when there is a need for EMHCs? A Priest may feel the desire to keep Mass moving efficiently or whatnot. In the end, is it not the Priest’s decision?

In terms of the germ issue, what makes you think the Priest’s hands are that much cleaner? I don’t think the ritual handwashing gets rid of that many germs. I would think Priests are probably just as apt to pick at things, scratch themselves, hug and shake hands as anyone else.

–Well, yeah. If you don’t have the right clothes, and, I am talking lay people. In America, especially, don’t distribute God. You can serve Him by being humble and wait to receive him from a priest.

Who decides what the “right clothes” are? Shouldn’t that be the Priests job?

BTW- I am NOT an EMHC so I have no vested interest in this argument.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I do find myself feeling ill about this very matter.

We have three EHMCs who are from last year’s RCIA class. Yes, they are confirmed Catholics now, but goodness gracious, I speak to them regularly at length and there is just so, so much they don’t understand. And they don’t seem to have any interest whatsoever in learning more. They never attend our community catechesis, nor partipate in any activities where a special speaker might come or whathaveyou.

The flip side is, am I lacking in charity by having these thoughts?

I think you raise some valid points. If it were me, I would approach the pastor with these concerns and suggest that EMHCs be practicing Catholics for some minimum time (like 5 yrs. for example) Of course, it is important to realize that often converts are far more knowledgeable about their Faith than cradle Catholics. In those situations the minimum time could be waived. As for your impression, it would be interesting to know whether this is something that is noticed by the community at large or just yourself, because you know them personally etc.

 

[choctaw]

I think that receiving communion is the important thing we do. Even if it were distributed by a robot it still is the consecrated body of Christ. I take more of an issue concerning the hygiene of the entire communion process. People touching the tongues of each recipient along with each one drinking out of the same cup, which is wiped only wiped off and given to the next person over and over. Our Catholic Church could learn from the Protestants who distribute communion in individual containers thus less chance of contamination. I had a priest tell me “you are receiving the body and blood of Christ…it can’t have germs”. Yeah right…I have gotten sore throats after drinking the wine……….or got a a real bad cold. Maybe it was not the cause, but I never drink the wine. Wiping it off, turning the cup around and giving it to the next person is not considered good hygiene. Even the food business requires rubber gloves for the handlers……maybe some day the Church will be more aware that better hygienic methods would keep church members from becoming exposed to germs. Just my view & opinion.

 

[juliamajor]

Actually it is (except about the NO part…I actually know some faithful, practicing NO Catholics)…I am actually disgusted that you care so little about Christ that you are indifferent to how He is handled by people in the Consecrated Eucharist…and my argument has nothing to do with a valid Sacrament…that is of course if the Priest’s proper intent is not present, which would invalidate the Sacrament…no what I am talking about is how 40+ years ago, we actually believed in the True Presence and would kneel before it and would take every precaution not to stain it with our sinful bodies…now apparently it doesn’t matter. Your apathy and the apathy of many Catholics makes that very clear…according to your logic, it wouldn’t matter if a satanist distributed Holy Communion (while they stole some of them to use for Black Masses) because it is just about you and Jesus…i am sick and tired of this cookie cutter crayon theology you liberal modernist have…Have the decency if you don’t respect anything else in the Church, please respect The Eucharist…this unbelievable

Here we go again- “the remnant” those chosen holy few who are the only ones upholding the church.keeping holy and away from those NO folks.I am 40+ years old.I lived during the period you see as the “good ole’ days” and like most rememberances of things past the “good ole days” weren’t that great.I was truly afraid of God as a child not in awe.I thought of myself as a spider in God’s web.One pull on one thread would send me to perdition.To me VII was a God send.Jesus was not just King but brother.I could trust him talk to him.He was no longer up “there” among the clouds, just looking down and waving once in awhile.I no longer saw God as disinterested in me, as being who who condemned easily, forgave not so easily.Who couldn’t love me if I were not 100% perfect.That may have not been the logical or even the theologically correct statement of the time but it certainly was the tenor of the time.
I believe in the True Presence- always did always will.A few of my friends & I forced our pastor into giving us Eucharistic Adoration when the pastor was hemming and hawing about it.We just bought a monstrance and said “here”.That started the Eucharistic Adoration in our parish.He was a very good man but he was just mistaken that we couldn’t 'handle" EA.
Let me tell you a bit about the laity that you and others are so scornful about. Like the Jews of old we are a"royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart" and like the levites of old their was a priestly class that sanctified via sacrifices.But God was NOT just addressing the levites then -it was the whole people He addressed and what stands then, stands now. WE ARE A HOLY PEOPLE! not just you or clergy or the"remnant" WE are! During the Middle ages when simony was as common as corruption and many things went on that were unseemly was it the laity that caused the problem?No.The clergy and their misbehaviors helped bring disaster upon the Church-not the laity.If anything we kept it going by our belief, by our love and our tenacity.
In more recent years the priestly scandals that grieved and dismayed the laity-in which many bishops did not perform their roles as shepherds but held a a line to protect themselves and their “brothers”. who endured ,stood by and wept over them. The laity.Again the bishops helped no one.
We could have run- we could have gone somewhere else- but we didn’t.We stood firm ,We had faith enough to hold tight and weather the storm.Apparently the laity has more faith in their clergy then they have in us.Haven’t we proved ourselves worthy yet! As my priest said to me " the Eucharist isn’t holier because I distribute it. It’s holy because it’s Jesus and nothing anyone can say or do can take away from that". We might be people with unclean lips but as in Isaiah hasn’t the angel touched us with cleansing fire?
EMHC’s are supposed to be “good” Catholics.How do you define that? By how many masses they attend? We have learned the hard way the appearances of piety can be deceiving.So how can you vet them? The human heart contains more beauty and ugliness then people can imagine.The problem is Who knows the human heart? none but God alone.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Ahhh…in the good ole days and still in Churches that offer the TLM, none of this is a concern…you see, only the Priest receives from The Cup, which makes the Communion valid and eliminates the spread of viruses…then everyone else receives kneeling on the tongue…I have never once heard of anyone getting sick following a TLM from the spread of germs

I think that receiving communion is the important thing we do. Even if it were distributed by a robot it still is the consecrated body of Christ. I take more of an issue concerning the hygiene of the entire communion process. People touching the tongues of each recipient along with each one drinking out of the same cup, which is wiped only wiped off and given to the next person over and over. Our Catholic Church could learn from the Protestants who distribute communion in individual containers thus less chance of contamination. I had a priest tell me “you are receiving the body and blood of Christ…it can’t have germs”. Yeah right…I have gotten sore throats after drinking the wine……….or got a a real bad cold. Maybe it was not the cause, but I never drink the wine. Wiping it off, turning the cup around and giving it to the next person is not considered good hygiene. Even the food business requires rubber gloves for the handlers……maybe some day the Church will be more aware that better hygienic methods would keep church members from becoming exposed to germs. Just my view & opinion.