EMHC's....what should the bare minimums be...for real!!

[michaeldaniels]

It is impossible for God to change…there has been no new revelation since the death of the last apostle…the Church Doctrine can not change…so VII didn’t create a new God, which apparently you mistakenly think it did. The shame of the whole matter is that Catholics, yourself included, apparently did not understand The Church prior to Vatican II…and since Vatican II have created a faux Theology that doesn’t exist out of the so called “spirit of Vatican II”…now to the rest of your post, I could care less about appearances and all of that nonsense, I am talking about the Nuts and Bolts of being a Catholic…and there are those CINO’s who publicly speak in direct opposition to The Church, The Vatican, and The Pope and I have a problem with them being EMHC’s…maybe your reverence and respect for the Eucharist, or lack thereof, doesn’t make this a problem for you…but it certainly does for me.

And as to the “remnant” statement…You will thank us later.

Here we go again- “the remnant” those chosen holy few who are the ones the church together keeping all us NO people at bay preventing the utter collapse.I am 40+ years old.I lived during the period you see as the “good ole’ days” and like most rememberances of things past the “good ole days” weren’t that great.I was truly afraid of God as a child not in awe.I thought of myself as a spider in God’s web.One pull on one thread would send me to perdition.To me VII was a God send.Jesus was not just King but brother.I could trust him talk to him.He was no longer up “there” among the clouds, just looking down and waving once in awhile.I no longer saw God as disinterested in me, as being who who condemned easily, forgave no so easily.Who couldn’t love me if I were not 100% perfect.That may have not been the logical or even the theologically correct statement of the time but it certainly was the tenor of the time.
I believe in the True Presence- always did always will.A few of my friends & I forced our pastor into giving us Eucharistic Adoration when the pastor was hemming and hawing about it.We just bought a monstrance and said “here”.That started the Eucharistic Adoration in our parish.He was a very good man but he was just mistaken that we couldn’t 'handle" EA.
Let me tell you a bit about the laity that you and others are so scornful about. Let the Jews of old we are a"royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart" and like the levites of old their was a priestly class that sanctified via sacrifices.But was NOT just addressing the levites then -it was the whole people He addressed and what stands then, stands now. WE ARE A HOLY PEOPLE! not just you or clergy or the"remnant" WE are! During the Middle ages when simony was as common as corruption and many things went on that were unseemly was it the laity that caused the problem?No.The clergy and their misbehaviors helped bring disaster upon the Church-not the laity.If anything we kept it going by our belief, by our love and our tenacity.
In more recent years the priestly scandals that grieved and dismayed the laity-in which many bishops did not perform their roles as shepherds but held a a line to protect themselves and their “brothers” who endured ,stood by and wept over them. The laity.Again the bishops helped no one.
We could have run- we could have gone somewhere else- but we didn’t.We stood firm ,We had faith enough to hold tight and weather the storm.Apparently the laity have more faith in their clergy then they have in us.Haven’t we proved ourselves worthy yet! As my priest said to me " the Eucharist isn’t holier because I distribute it. It’s holy because it’s Jesus and nothing anyone can say or do can take away from that". We might be people with unclean lips but as in Isaiah hasn’t the angel touched us with cleansing fire?
EMHC’s are supposed to be “good” Catholics.How do you define that? By how many masses they attend? We have learned the hard way the appearances of piety can be deceiving.So how can you vet them? The human heart contains more beauty and ugliness then people can imagine.The problem is Who knows the human heart? none but God alone.

 

[juliamajor]

I think that receiving communion is the important thing we do. Even if it were distributed by a robot it still is the consecrated body of Christ. I take more of an issue concerning the hygiene of the entire communion process. People touching the tongues of each recipient along with each one drinking out of the same cup, which is wiped only wiped off and given to the next person over and over. Our Catholic Church could learn from the Protestants who distribute communion in individual containers thus less chance of contamination. I had a priest tell me “you are receiving the body and blood of Christ…it can’t have germs”. Yeah right…I have gotten sore throats after drinking the wine……….or got a a real bad cold. Maybe it was not the cause, but I never drink the wine. Wiping it off, turning the cup around and giving it to the next person is not considered good hygiene. Even the food business requires rubber gloves for the handlers……maybe some day the Church will be more aware that better hygienic methods would keep church members from becoming exposed to germs. Just my view & opinion.

Actually most cold and flus are passed on via hand or spray.Our diocese had a study done and the recommended the cup over hand distribution.As far as catching a cold most people contract them via the normal actions of everyday living when No care is taken.In my parish it is a practice to sanitize our hands before distributing.Besides consuming the Eucharist is worth the risk.

 

[curlycool89]

I don’t know how things are done in your diocese, but where I come from all of your objections would be considered valid reasons for not commissioning (or decommissioning) an EMHC. You are absolutely correct in assuming that EMHCs should have a good Catholic Standing in the community. They should be good, practicing Catholics. I am an EMHC, and that is how we were instructed. As far as signing a statement of beliefs, well, that seems to go a little too far, a little too much like a witch hunt. However, if someone, who in the opinion of the Pastor is espousing or teaching beliefs that would be deemed heretical by the Catholic Church, then again, that person should be suspended or corrected in their POV by the Pastor.

I agree with this.

Other than that I’m not going to get involved in this thread. Over the last year I’ve been viewing here I find that these simply turn into witch hunts against non-traditionalists, especially those who attend NO masses. Some people have a very holier-than-though attitude; things like thinking they have the ability to evaluate the piety of others.

juliamajor:

Here we go again- “the remnant” those chosen holy few who are the ones the church together keeping all us NO people at bay preventing the utter collapse.

You know what, that sums up how it feels being here at CAF sometimes. NO and non-traditionalist Catholics are often treated as second class Catholic here.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Let us use logic here:

The Truth is the Truth…it can not change by its very nature
The Catholic Church is the One True Church…it is Truth in its very nature

If truth can not change, then The Catholic Church can not change…therefore it is an impossibility for there to be “progressive” Catholics…furthermore, the term “traditionalists” Catholics was only applied to describe those wanting to hold fast to the truth and traditions…but in reality, you can just call us “Catholic”…like they were for approx 1900+ years before the modernist, progressives, and liberals sought to destroy us and our Church…and the whole time taking innocent people along for the ride who really feel like they are doing nothing wrong and honestly don’t know any better…It is sad

You know what, that sums up how it feels being here at CAF sometimes. NO and non-traditionalist Catholics are often treated as second class Catholic here.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I agree with this.

Other than that I’m not going to get involved in this thread. Over the last year I’ve been viewing here I find that these simply turn into witch hunts against non-traditionalists, especially those who attend NO masses. Some people have a very holier-than-though attitude; things like thinking they have the ability to evaluate the piety of others.

You know what, that sums up how it feels being here at CAF sometimes. NO and non-traditionalist Catholics are often treated as second class Catholic here.

The “traditionalists” have a forum of their own. You and I and any other Catholic is welcome here! Further, just because I am in full accord with the Catholic Church, accept what it teaches, believe that Communion in the hand is ok, as the Bishops have said, attend the English Mass, the norm here in North America, I defy anyone to imply that I am NOT a traditional Catholic.

In my view, TLM is a dying vestige, CITH is reverential and pious, and COTT is too. I’ve attended the TLM in Charleston, SC, and it’s beautiful and reverential, but I also think it is an anachronism, and doomed to desuetude.

 

[Lormar]

Curlycoo

Just to show you that it works both ways, being a “traditional” Catholic, I feel exactly the same way you do, except we’re the second class citizens and the only ones consigned to the back of the Church, doomed to lose our souls, and called “heretics”, “schismatics” and the like. I’m tired of being made to feel like an odd ball in my own Church.

And, yes, we did keep it together for you. Who else would have preserved anything? And now you get resentful and want to take all the credit for it. Only when we die will most of you know how many souls were lost to Holy Mother Church and hearts crushed because of the aftermath of the Vatican Council II. You should be thankful there are still enough of us around to tell you things you’d otherwise have no way of knowing, and to alert you to when you are being fed re-written Church history to fit someone’s agenda.

 

[Philomeena]

Here we go again- “the remnant” those chosen holy few who are the only ones upholding the church.keeping holy and away from those NO folks.I am 40+ years old.I lived during the period you see as the “good ole’ days” and like most rememberances of things past the “good ole days” weren’t that great.I was truly afraid of God as a child not in awe.I thought of myself as a spider in God’s web.One pull on one thread would send me to perdition.To me VII was a God send.Jesus was not just King but brother.I could trust him talk to him.He was no longer up “there” among the clouds, just looking down and waving once in awhile.I no longer saw God as disinterested in me, as being who who condemned easily, forgave not so easily.Who couldn’t love me if I were not 100% perfect.That may have not been the logical or even the theologically correct statement of the time but it certainly was the tenor of the time.
I believe in the True Presence- always did always will.A few of my friends & I forced our pastor into giving us Eucharistic Adoration when the pastor was hemming and hawing about it.We just bought a monstrance and said “here”.That started the Eucharistic Adoration in our parish.He was a very good man but he was just mistaken that we couldn’t 'handle" EA.
Let me tell you a bit about the laity that you and others are so scornful about. Like the Jews of old we are a"royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart" and like the levites of old their was a priestly class that sanctified via sacrifices.But God was NOT just addressing the levites then -it was the whole people He addressed and what stands then, stands now. WE ARE A HOLY PEOPLE! not just you or clergy or the"remnant" WE are! During the Middle ages when simony was as common as corruption and many things went on that were unseemly was it the laity that caused the problem?No.The clergy and their misbehaviors helped bring disaster upon the Church-not the laity.If anything we kept it going by our belief, by our love and our tenacity.
In more recent years the priestly scandals that grieved and dismayed the laity-in which many bishops did not perform their roles as shepherds but held a a line to protect themselves and their “brothers”. who endured ,stood by and wept over them. The laity.Again the bishops helped no one.
We could have run- we could have gone somewhere else- but we didn’t.We stood firm ,We had faith enough to hold tight and weather the storm.Apparently the laity has more faith in their clergy then they have in us.Haven’t we proved ourselves worthy yet! As my priest said to me " the Eucharist isn’t holier because I distribute it. It’s holy because it’s Jesus and nothing anyone can say or do can take away from that". We might be people with unclean lips but as in Isaiah hasn’t the angel touched us with cleansing fire?
EMHC’s are supposed to be “good” Catholics.How do you define that? By how many masses they attend? We have learned the hard way the appearances of piety can be deceiving.So how can you vet them? The human heart contains more beauty and ugliness then people can imagine.The problem is Who knows the human heart? none but God alone.

Terrific post!

 

[michaeldaniels]

Great Post…I agree:thumbsup:

Curlycoo

Just to show you that it works both ways, being a “traditional” Catholic, I feel exactly the same way you do, except we’re the second class citizens and the only ones consigned to the back of the Church, doomed to lose our souls, and called “heretics”, “schismatics” and the like. I’m tired of being made to feel like an odd ball in my own Church.

And, yes, we did keep it together for you. Who else would have preserved anything? And now you get resentful and want to take all the credit for it. Only when we die will most of you know how many souls were lost to Holy Mother Church and hearts crushed because of the aftermath of the Vatican Council II. You should be thankful there are still enough of us around to tell you things you’d otherwise have no way of knowing, and to alert you to when you are being fed re-written Church history to fit someone’s agenda.

 

[juliamajor]

---

It is impossible for God to change…there has been no new revelation since the death of the last apostle…the Church Doctrine can not change…so VII didn’t create a new God, which apparently you mistakenly think it did.(listen pee wee, don’t tell me what I think but at least I do think) The shame of the whole matter is that Catholics, yourself included, apparently did not understand( I lived it dearie, I learned it I was in Catholic school for twelve years so did get uppity with me -I know my faith very well)The Church prior to Vatican II…and since Vatican II have created a faux Theology (according to the Holy remnant)that doesn’t exist out of the so called “spirit of Vatican II”…(apparently that little thing of Papal authority and infalliblity doesn’t faze you. You rail against "cafeteria Catholics-but you are doing the exact same thing. Picking and choosing. Only you ennoble yourselves by declaring yourselves the “true Church” while all others are just dumb ox).now to the rest of your post, I could care less about appearances and all of that nonsense, I am talking about the Nuts and Bolts (not Spirit, Light, Life ?)of being a Catholic…and there are those CINO’s who publicly speak in direct opposition to The Church, The Vatican, and The Pope and I have a problem with them being EMHC’s.(I have seen Traditionalist’s who do the same thing , brother)…maybe your reverence and respect for the Eucharist,(which you know nothing about since you apparently DON’T have the gift of reading hearts) or lack thereof,((ah yes very non-judgmental aren’t we)) doesn’t make this a problem for you…but it certainly does for me.(ah, the crux of the matter -those who do not think like you-are not true believers-It’s only those who are like michaeldaniels who are truly good and truly loyal.I notice you talk about other people’s sinfulness alot but your own, not so much.It’s very odd but Jesus usually ripped into those who thought so highly of themselves that they could act anyway they wanted toward others-Hmm-humility I guess is not one of your attributes)And as to the “remnant” statement…You will thank us later.( If God teaches anything in NT or OT is equanimity of peoples-there is no us and them, only we.
This thread should be called “Why I will never be a traditionalist”.You’ve given me many reason not even to consider it-good way to evangelize folks:thumbsup:

 

[michaeldaniels]

You are very welcome my friend…thanks for the name calling and insults…very classy LOL I truly feel sorry for people like you…full of hatred towards others just trying to help…you will be in my prayers. That is if you don’t mind a traditionalist praying for you

---

It is impossible for God to change…there has been no new revelation since the death of the last apostle…the Church Doctrine can not change…so VII didn’t create a new God, which apparently you mistakenly think it did.(listen pee wee, don’t tell me what I think but at least I do think) The shame of the whole matter is that Catholics, yourself included, apparently did not understand( I lived it dearie, I learned it I was in Catholic school for twelve years so did get uppity with me -I know my faith very well)The Church prior to Vatican II…and since Vatican II have created a faux Theology (according to the Holy remnant)that doesn’t exist out of the so called “spirit of Vatican II”…(apparently that little thing of Papal authority and infalliblity doesn’t faze you. You rail against "cafeteria Catholics-but you are doing the exact same thing. Picking and choosing. Only you ennoble yourselves by declaring yourselves the “true Church” while all others are just dumb ox).now to the rest of your post, I could care less about appearances and all of that nonsense, I am talking about the Nuts and Bolts (not Spirit, Light, Life ?)of being a Catholic…and there are those CINO’s who publicly speak in direct opposition to The Church, The Vatican, and The Pope and I have a problem with them being EMHC’s.(I have seen Traditionalist’s who do the same thing , brother)…maybe your reverence and respect for the Eucharist,(which you know nothing about since you apparently DON’T have the gift of reading hearts) or lack thereof,((ah yes very non-judgmental aren’t we)) doesn’t make this a problem for you…but it certainly does for me.(ah, the crux of the matter -those who do not think like you-are not true believers-It’s only those who are like michaeldaniels who are truly good and truly loyal.I notice you talk about other people’s sinfulness alot but your own, not so much.It’s very odd but Jesus usually ripped into those who thought so highly of themselves that they could act anyway they wanted toward others-Hmm-humility I guess is not one of your attributes)And as to the “remnant” statement…You will thank us later.( If God teaches anything in NT or OT is equanimity of peoples-there is no us and them, only we.
This thread should be called “Why I will never be a traditionalist”.You’ve given me many reason not even to consider it-good way to evangelize folks:thumbsup:

 

[curlycool89]

Curlycoo

Just to show you that it works both ways, being a “traditional” Catholic, I feel exactly the same way you do, except we’re the second class citizens and the only ones consigned to the back of the Church, doomed to lose our souls, and called “heretics”, “schismatics” and the like. I’m tired of being made to feel like an odd ball in my own Church.

I have no problem with traditionalists (just to clarify for michael, I use the term traditionalists to describe those Catholics who are more in favour of the TLM, and those who seem to want a return to pre-VII). If you find that you get more out of the TLM mass then the Pope says you can attend one. I’m fine with that. I just expect you to reciprocate with those who attend the NO.

And, yes, we did keep it together for you. Who else would have preserved anything? And now you get resentful and want to take all the credit for it. Only when we die will most of you know how many souls were lost to Holy Mother Church and hearts crushed because of the aftermath of the Vatican Council II. You should be thankful there are still enough of us around to tell you things you’d otherwise have no way of knowing, and to alert you to when you are being fed re-written Church history to fit someone’s agenda.

To be perfectly honest I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you talking about the Church before VII?

Let us use logic here:

The Truth is the Truth…it can not change by its very nature
The Catholic Church is the One True Church…it is Truth in its very nature

If truth can not change, then The Catholic Church can not change…therefore it is an impossibility for there to be “progressive” Catholics…furthermore, the term “traditionalists” Catholics was only applied to describe those wanting to hold fast to the truth and traditions…but in reality, you can just call us “Catholic”…like they were for approx 1900+ years before the modernist, progressives, and liberals sought to destroy us and our Church…and the whole time taking innocent people along for the ride who really feel like they are doing nothing wrong and honestly don’t know any better…It is sad

And to continue on I have no idea what you’re talking about either. I know I ask this a lot, but can you explain in specific terms instead of catch all phrases?

I have to be honest, I’m not really trustworthy of people who make blanket statements, especially ones like this that (from what I see) are all flair and no substance.

 

[cargau]

While I respect your passion for the Eucharist, I would caution you against dwelling too much about the state of another’s soul as it may give rise to the sin of pride. Let’s leave those judgements to the Church…

At the first Eucharist, Judas was present and likely passed the Precious Blood or the Holy Bread to his fellow Apostles (Bishops). Jesus knows exactly what He is doing. He gave Himself up for sinners. My sense is to focus on our Lord and not the person charged with the responsibility of distributing it. The state of his or her soul is between them and God.

Having said that, I do believe that there should be a thorough training regiment that each candidate for EMHC must attend followed by an interview with a parish priest and or the pastor. There should be no misunderstanding as to what the expectations of a minister of Holy Communion are. Church teaching must be understood. It would then be the purview of the pastor to accept or reject.

 

[michaeldaniels]

No one seems to realize that I understand people are sinners and no one is perfect…I understand and except that…there isn’t a Catholic who isn’t a sinner…the problem I have is when a formal heretic is allowed to distribute Communion…a person who is blatantly outspoken against The Church…I am sorry, but that is a problem.

What should we do next…try to canonize Dr. Tiller and make him the Patron Saint of Priests for Life???

 

[OraLabora]

Let us use logic here:

The Truth is the Truth…it can not change by its very nature
The Catholic Church is the One True Church…it is Truth in its very nature

The Truth cannot change. Revelation has stopped. Truth has been revealed to us. But, and it’s a big one, we are fallible humans. Our understanding of it can become clearer with time. Theology is a science, the science of understanding revelation, just as physics is the science of learning about the laws of the universe: once upon a time, Newtonian mechanics explained gravity very well. But as we dug deeper, we learned that Einstein’s theory of relativity explained it better. Newton understood a part of the truth about gravity, but not all of it. Einstein explained much more. The Church’s view on artificial birth control was not changed, but was poorly understood. But it was better explained in Humanae Vitae, and it was explained even better in John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. Post Vatican II, a laudable attempt at better understanding the role of the Laity as part of the Body of Christ and the Priesthood of All Believers (symbolically) has been made. The Church has admitted that the separated churches can still contain a kernel of the Truth even if they are missing a lot of it. Were these in error?

Neither the Church, nor the liturgy, are static. Even pre-Vatican II the liturgy changed. Pius X made extensive changes to the Breviary about 100 years ago. Many deep traditions were lost, especially the reciting of the Laudate psalms (148, 149 and 150) every day at Lauds in the Roman Office (though preserved in the Benedictine Office). Pius XII brought back the Easter Vigil in the '50s and made changes to some of the rubrics of the breviary. The liturgy of the Mass changed over time as well, up to Trent, and then at Trent and then after Vatican II.

So what, precisely, is it that you would not have changed? What is it that has changed in the Church that has ruined it? Is it Vatican II, or is it its interpretation?

Does keeping Tradition mean ossification? Does it mean we can’t deepen our theological understanding? Or does it mean we can evolve against very the very real needs of changing demographics, while at the same time preserving traditions like Gregorian Chant and the most holy sacrifice of the Eucharist?

I certainly agree that post-Vatican II there have been abuses. I don’t agree that Vatican II is somehow in itself a departure from the Truth. The issue is not doctrinal. It is disciplinary. The focus should be on reigning in that discipline. Otherwise if the focus is on that small core that apparently claim to have not lost the Truth, and not discipline within the Church, the danger is yet another separation and schism.

And it won’t be the Church that is in error, but the schismatics. The gates of Hell can never prevail against her.

 

[juliamajor]

Curlycoo

Just to show you that it works both ways, being a “traditional” Catholic, I feel exactly the same way you do, except we’re the second class citizens and the only ones consigned to the back of the Church, doomed to lose our souls, and called “heretics”, “schismatics” and the like. I’m tired of being made to feel like an odd ball in my own Church.

And, yes, we did keep it together for you. Who else would have preserved anything? And now you get resentful and want to take all the credit for it. Only when we die will most of you know how many souls were lost to Holy Mother Church and hearts crushed because of the aftermath of the Vatican Council II. You should be thankful there are still enough of us around to tell you things you’d otherwise have no way of knowing, and to alert you to when you are being fed re-written Church history to fit someone’s agenda.

Most of the times when I encounter a “traditionalist” I get a superior attitude, a self righteousness, and a smugness.That is a huge turn off.If you want to evangelize for your own viewpoint lose the attitude ,the smugness and the self pity.Be who you are and what you are.Be humble-it draws way more people. be happy-(a lot of people see Traditionalists as sour pusses)showing a positive outlook instead of gloom and doom will help overcome any prejudices toward the movement.Be an ambassador for the movement.That requires you to give the positive points of traditionalism not the negative points of everyone else.Don’t treat others like they are stupid and don’t go conspiratorial on people-they’ll just think your wacky.Act like we are one body in Christ-not into boxes.We are to be different parts of the same body.If that Body starts to argue with itself then the whole body may sicken
You speak like the Church is an honored antique.A dinosaur once feared and now just bones. Jesus Lives-that means His Church lives! It is a living breathing organism that continues and grows-maybe not always in ways we which it but it does grow and have the ability to change(not dogma or doctrine) but disciplines traditions of the small “t”. It also has the right and obligation to clarify a doctrine.The popes didn’t stop encyclicals after the 19th century. Earlier encyclicals are clarified by later ones.They don’t usurp the elder-they are to be considered in tandem with the elder. But neither one surpasses the other.Like I stated before the laity is not the enemy of the clergy-we have to work together if we want to bring salvation into the world.It all of our jobs to Christ to this grieving world.

 

[juliamajor]

No one seems to realize that I understand people are sinners and no one is perfect…I understand and except that…there isn’t a Catholic who isn’t a sinner…the problem I have is when a formal heretic(formal? in what way? has he been warned,chastised,corrected by the church?) is allowed to distribute Communion…a person who is blatantly outspoken against The Church…I am sorry, but that is a problem.

What should we do next…try to canonize Dr. Tiller and make him the Patron Saint of Priests for Life???

Boy!-You do like hyberbole!What does Tiller have to do with anything?

 

[michaeldaniels]

No they haven’t been formally chastised, however they publicly denounce The Church and Its teachings…There actions and words should bring Excommunication Latæ Sententiæ upon themselves…it is a great scandal for people like that to serve as EMHC, dont you agree. The point with Tiller, is that we wouldn’t have him as the face of the pro-life movement…why do we have non-practicing, anti-Catholics as the face of Communion? Since some of these people I am describing are the EMHC’s distributing Communion…do you see what I am trying to say?

Boy!-You do like hyberbole!What does Tiller have to do with anything?

 

[OraLabora]

No one seems to realize that I understand people are sinners and no one is perfect…I understand and except that…there isn’t a Catholic who isn’t a sinner…the problem I have is when a formal heretic is allowed to distribute Communion…a person who is blatantly outspoken against The Church…I am sorry, but that is a problem.

What should we do next…try to canonize Dr. Tiller and make him the Patron Saint of Priests for Life???

That’s not only a problem with EMHCs distributing. It’s a problem with receiving as well.

The question becomes: what constitutes a “formal” heretic? I’m not sure stubbornly failing to live up to Church doctrine qualifies, we all do that to some extent as sinners.

Would you exclude someone who’s stubbornness comes strictly from poor catechesis? That would exclude an awful lot of people.

To me a formal heretic is someone who would be excommunicated. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen the average cafeteria Catholic in the pew excommunicated. In my mind to be a formal heretic you have to first thoroughly understand the doctrine you’re rejecting. I think Joe Average has a poor understanding of doctrine and is relying on sentiment rather than intellect when opposing the Church.

But I may be wrong. If I am it won’t be the first time according to my wife

 

[Lormar]

You are all so fond of the words “judgmental” and “uncharitable”; so fond of calling people proud and self-righteous, personally I find you and your generation to be the most self-righteous of them all. And your post was the height of smugness.

What did we all do until we had Julie come along to show us how? How, I wonder, did our Church survive without you?

The point I, and others, have been trying to get across is that you (plural) are guilty of the very same things. I think you ought to take your own advice.

 

[whatevergirl]

What? I must be naive…I thought the BARE MINIMUM for a EMHC should be that he/she be a practicing Catholic.