Emotional Affair = Adultery?

[YinYangMom]

Oh, I wish our parish had taken such care with pre Cana. We went on the weekend retreat and it was a touchy-feely waste of time, we both hated it. We journalled and shared our answers. The facilitators “prayed over us”. We talked about financial issues that did not, and never turned out to, affect our marriage at all. It seemed very geared toward people in their young 20s moving out of Mom and Dad’s house for the first time…in reality all the couples in our group were close to 30, professionals, and had been dating for significant numbers of years.

We really needed that kind of in-depth talk about “What constitutes infidelity” and “how important is spiritual growth to a marriage”. I’m glad to see some parishes might be getting it right.

Well, I’m pretty sure this is the result of JPII. Engaged Encounter is the pre-cana retreat. Foccus is a separate part of marriage prep. Hubby and I, 20 years ago pretty much had the same experience you did. We didn’t hate it, but we really didn’t get anything spiritual out of it.

Certainly, it wasn’t until we started facilitating the Foccus inventory for the parish that we learned all these other things. In the inventory there’s an entire section on the sacramental nature of marriage - something I understand isn’t really touched upon even today at the Engaged Encounter retreats. The couples tell us the EE tends to focus on communication and finances, so hubby and I try to spend our time with the couple addressing permanence in marriage and emphasizing why it’s a sacrament. Couples are required to attend NFP seminars as well, so I do feel more confident about what our new couples are walking into when they say “I do” now. They are getting a bigger and better picture than what we did way back when, and again, I credit JPII for bringing that picture into focus.

 

[cecilia97]

Well, I’m pretty sure this is the result of JPII. Engaged Encounter is the pre-cana retreat. Foccus is a separate part of marriage prep. Hubby and I, 20 years ago pretty much had the same experience you did. We didn’t hate it, but we really didn’t get anything spiritual out of it.

Certainly, it wasn’t until we started facilitating the Foccus inventory for the parish that we learned all these other things. In the inventory there’s an entire section on the sacramental nature of marriage - something I understand isn’t really touched upon even today at the Engaged Encounter retreats. The couples tell us the EE tends to focus on communication and finances, so hubby and I try to spend our time with the couple addressing permanence in marriage and emphasizing why it’s a sacrament. Couples are required to attend NFP seminars as well, so I do feel more confident about what our new couples are walking into when they say “I do” now. They are getting a bigger and better picture than what we did way back when, and again, I credit JPII for bringing that picture into focus.

Well, mine wasn’t exactly way back when, it was 5 years ago. Yes, it was the Engaged Encounter weekend…which we always referred to as “Enraged Encounter” because we felt we lost about 54 hours of our busy lives with no gain to show for it. It was heavy on the “you need to learn how to talk to each other” and “make sure you assign one person to balance the checkbook”…we had dated for nearly 8 years, we knew how to communicate! And when our marriage was in it’s death pangs this year, our counselor told us we were about the only couple she’d ever seen who had no money issues in the mix. So talking and financial prowess do not a marriage make.

We did have a long section on NFP but there was practically no technical information given, and the facilitators weren’t forthcoming with personal experience anecdotes.

I don’t want it to sound like I blame poor preparation or the Church for our divorce. I blame my ex and his girlfriend. But I hope the changes you’ve described take hold. Newly married people need all the help the Church can provide.

c

 

[Janeite]

Emotional affairs are worse IMHO because you can’t “prove” anything, and sometimes if you try to talk to your spouse about his/her inappropriate behavior, he or she will turn the blame around onto YOU.

Actually, the cheating spouse might even be so emotionally attracted to this other person, deciding that they’re so much better than you, that the spouse might start to treat you terribly. That’s no fun.

It’s just the same as emotional abuse being worse than physical abuse. The e.a. is more ongoing, anyway.

Anyway, I’ll pray for you. Do you have any kids? If so I’ll be praying for them too.

 

[gmarie21]

In NUMEROUS examinations of conscience booklets and pamphlets for confession, under the parts for the ten commandments, “Thou shalt not commit adultery” includes the question “Have you kept company with another man/woman’s spouse?” For most people, keeping company with another means spending EMOTIONAL time with them in sharing your life and details of your past, present, and future.

As one who was involved in an affair, mine began emotionally (his wife wasn’t Catholic and after years and years of marriage she still hadn’t been open to having children which he desperately wanted). I was the Catholic girl who loves her family and wants many, many children. It can start out innocently (as did my affair, just discussing our faith) and can lead to what my affair lead to (a child being born and a his marriage ending).

 

[ktp]

Emotional affairs are worse IMHO because you can’t “prove” anything, and sometimes if you try to talk to your spouse about his/her inappropriate behavior, he or she will turn the blame around onto YOU.

Actually, the cheating spouse might even be so emotionally attracted to this other person, deciding that they’re so much better than you, that the spouse might start to treat you terribly. That’s no fun.

Ditto to everything. My husband hid a ‘friendship’ with a woman for 13 years and actually expects me to believe that it was ‘inadvertent,’ that, despite setting up secret e-mails to correspond with her, and misleading me a couple of times into thinking she was no longer e-mailing… that it was such a very casual friendship, that there was just nothing to say, and hence, he never intended to hide her. I have been treated all along as if (and in fact, told to my face) that I’m being unreasonable and irrational. That doesn’t exactly build up a marriage.

There’s another problem with emotional affairs: the lying. My husband has deceived me for thirteen years, in a number of ways-- twisting words, using words with his own unique definition, lies of omission, outright lies. I think he’s even convinced himself of his own lies. He has supposedly ended contact with both the women he got too friendly with, but who can believe him after so many lies, and how can I believe at any given moment, that it isn’t already happening again, knowing now how good he is at keeping secrets?

I agree that the difference between physical and emotional affairs is a little like the difference between being stabbed or beaten. But it would almost be easier to just know he slept with them and it’s over. Knowing his emotions were involved with at least one of them, knowing they had a 13 year friendship behind my back, knowing he has talked to her about feelings and thoughts that he won’t talk to me about, and that he’s continuing to lie about it and actually even blame me-- I’m not sure yet if our marriage will survive that. If it survives, if he continues to act like this is nothing for me to be upset about, I can’t imagine it ever being a close and loving marriage. I have been totally abandoned by him, to cope with my feelings on this on my own. He wants me to trust him, but will do absolutely nothing to help me regain trust, and essentially blames me then for not trusting him! slapping forehead

As to the OP, if your wife is going for overnights with another man, she’s sleeping with him.

 

[cecilia97]

Ditto to everything. My husband hid a ‘friendship’ with a woman for 13 years and actually expects me to believe that it was ‘inadvertent,’ that, despite setting up secret e-mails to correspond with her, and misleading me a couple of times into thinking she was no longer e-mailing… that it was such a very casual friendship, that there was just nothing to say, and hence, he never intended to hide her. I have been treated all along as if (and in fact, told to my face) that I’m being unreasonable and irrational. That doesn’t exactly build up a marriage.

There’s another problem with emotional affairs: the lying. My husband has deceived me for thirteen years, in a number of ways-- twisting words, using words with his own unique definition, lies of omission, outright lies. I think he’s even convinced himself of his own lies. He has supposedly ended contact with both the women he got too friendly with, but who can believe him after so many lies, and how can I believe at any given moment, that it isn’t already happening again, knowing now how good he is at keeping secrets?

I agree that the difference between physical and emotional affairs is a little like the difference between being stabbed or beaten. But it would almost be easier to just know he slept with them and it’s over. Knowing his emotions were involved with at least one of them, knowing they had a 13 year friendship behind my back, knowing he has talked to her about feelings and thoughts that he won’t talk to me about, and that he’s continuing to lie about it and actually even blame me-- I’m not sure yet if our marriage will survive that. If it survives, if he continues to act like this is nothing for me to be upset about, I can’t imagine it ever being a close and loving marriage. I have been totally abandoned by him, to cope with my feelings on this on my own. He wants me to trust him, but will do absolutely nothing to help me regain trust, and essentially blames me then for not trusting him! slapping forehead

As to the OP, if your wife is going for overnights with another man, she’s sleeping with him.

I will pray for your marriage! You’re very strong to keep trying.

I agree with your post, in fact I had an eye opener about this yesterday. I got an email update from a mutual friend about my ex. (I didn’t ask, I’d rather not know!) Two bits of news: people suspect the girlfriend is pregnant and she’s taken him to her hometown to visit her family and show him her old haunts. The bit that hurt me more? The visit and the old haunts. THAT strikes home that I, my family, and all the years of history we shared with my ex are being replaced.

The lying is the worst, it makes you doubt not only your spouse, but your own intellegence and sanity. How could I have been so gullible? Did he and she sit around complaining about me and laughing at how stupid I look? Am I really just being too hard on him? That kind of thing. If it was “just” sex at least I’d KNOW what they talked about.

And it’s hard to start forgiving someone when they won’t admit they’ve done any wrong. AND they blame you for their actions at every chance…you don’t trust me enough, we’re just friends, you just have low self-esteem. So how do you get on the same page if they think no sex = no affair?

Oh, this subject is very hard for me. I’m sorry to hijack the thread with my moanings. Thanks for listening.

c

 

[All4Him]

In Christopher Wests Theology of the Body he talks about the requirments of a sacramental marriage. Total Faithful Love. True fidelity is body, heart, mind, and soul. Not just one part. Emotional infidelity is an affair of the heart and a betrayel of the marriage vows.

 

[ktp]

The lying is the worst, it makes you doubt not only your spouse, but your own intellegence and sanity. How could I have been so gullible? Did he and she sit around complaining about me and laughing at how stupid I look? Am I really just being too hard on him? That kind of thing. If it was “just” sex at least I’d KNOW what they talked about.

And it’s hard to start forgiving someone when they won’t admit they’ve done any wrong. AND they blame you for their actions at every chance…you don’t trust me enough, we’re just friends, you just have low self-esteem. So how do you get on the same page if they think no sex = no affair?

When I thought about your post, it occured to me one of the reasons an emotional affair is just as wrong in a sacramental marriage as a physical one: as you said, it leads to lying, which leads to ‘having to’ blame the other person, make them think they’re crazy, incapable of understanding, mishearing things, overly suspicious, etc., etc. in order to cover up. He made me question and doubt my entire personality and character, and even, a great deal of the time, flat-out hate myself, with all the awful things he was making me out to be. He told co-workers half-truths to make me out to be some sort of jealous, suspicious lunatic. It’s the complete antithesis of self-sacrifice. It is making the other person pay the price (and a very ugly one) for your pleasure.

Oh, and in my case, I now know for a fact that he and this long, long, long term secret friend WERE discussing how awful I supposedly am. There’s another problem with an emotional affair. Where was his incentive to actually listen to me, when he’s had thirteen years of his girlfriend patting him on the back, backing him up in everything, and agreeing with him that he’s in the right at every turn? There have pretty much always been three people in my marriage, and I’ve been the only one who didn’t realize it.

I realize this is probably sliding a bit into venting, but I do hope that maybe it can be taken by someone who is maybe starting such a friendship, truly believing it’s innocent, and help them see why it isn’t so innocent, why it is incredibly hurtful and destructive.

 

[homewardangel]

ktp,

I have a friendship that some may call an emotional affair. I get nervous about it at times because I don’t have any single friends that I am as close to as I am to this person. I often wonder if I would know if we crossed the line from friendship to an emotional affair.

Perhaps you can tell me some things that I should look out for? This person is my best friend, they don’t know that. I am afraid that if I told them they would back away.

I am single - divorced with kids. They are married. I don’t think that their marriage is a valid marriage in the eyes of the church.

I would truly appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, because I don’t want to have my friend (or myself) feeling that our relationship is more than it is.

Thanks
Terry

 

[gmarie21]

ktp,

I have a friendship that some may call an emotional affair. I get nervous about it at times because I don’t have any single friends that I am as close to as I am to this person. I often wonder if I would know if we crossed the line from friendship to an emotional affair.

Perhaps you can tell me some things that I should look out for? This person is my best friend, they don’t know that. I am afraid that if I told them they would back away.

I am single - divorced with kids. They are married. I don’t think that their marriage is a valid marriage in the eyes of the church.

I would truly appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, because I don’t want to have my friend (or myself) feeling that our relationship is more than it is.

Thanks
Terry

From my experience and having known numerous people who were involved in some form of affairs, you are walking the line and dipping your toes past the line. YOur statement that you don’t think their marriage is valid is proof that you have emotional feelings beyond the simple, innocent friendship. That’s how I justified the beginnings of my emotional affair (which lead to a physical affair).

 

[homewardangel]

From my experience and having known numerous people who were involved in some form of affairs, you are walking the line and dipping your toes past the line. YOur statement that you don’t think their marriage is valid is proof that you have emotional feelings beyond the simple, innocent friendship. That’s how I justified the beginnings of my emotional affair (which lead to a physical affair).

I understand the possibility of something going wrong. As far as my comment about their marriage not being valid, I don’t agree that is necessarily a sign that my emotions have gone beyond friendship. Having gone through an annulment in the church I now look at marriage completely different. So with this knowledge I am aware more of what I am looking for in a marriage - unfortunately I do see what is lacking in other marriages. Its just a matter of seeing the facts now that I never saw before. With that said, I have wondered how our friendship would be if their marriage situation was different…and I mean in a marriage recognized by the church.

I also realize that what I have with them is not a “simple friendship” it is a close friendship. And I have told myself many times “even if this person were single I’m not supposed to sleep with them anyway.” A physical affair has been crossed off the list of possiblities, them being married is not the reason why a physical relationship is unacceptable.

Saying that you base your thoughts on your experience, I understand the validity to that thought. I too know many people who have had affairs - very often there was only sex and only for a short time. I have often heard about prostitutes who say men come for them and just want to talk. Its a very strange thing.
I think basing our lives strictly on our experiences limits us - doesn’t it?? Should I keep myself protected and emotionally behind walls because some people will sexually take advantage of me? Or should I live my life expecting others to live right. This is a delimma. When you have someone who brings a smile to your heart, do you cut them out of your life just because they are married??

Terry

 

[gmarie21]

I think basing our lives strictly on our experiences limits us - doesn’t it?? Should I keep myself protected and emotionally behind walls because some people will sexually take advantage of me? Or should I live my life expecting others to live right. This is a delimma. When you have someone who brings a smile to your heart, do you cut them out of your life just because they are married??

Terry

Well, if numerous people have experienced the slippery slope that you just may be on yourself, and their experience and “friendship” was just as you described yours, then I would pay attention to another’s experience knowing full well that I am just as vulnerable to going on the same slippery slope they too went on. If you or the other person is sharing details of their life that should be reserved for their spouse, then it IS an emotional affair. I don’t care how long you’ve been friends, one should be EXTREMELY cautious when befriending another of the opposite sex if one of the parties is married. I personally have stopped having friendships with the opposite sex who aren’t family and who are married or engaged. While it was tough to not turn to these friends for the first few months I now understand why this must be done and have found that my life is still fulfilling with the women I am friends with at my parish.

 

[contemplative]

In Christopher Wests Theology of the Body he talks about the requirments of a sacramental marriage. Total Faithful Love. True fidelity is body, heart, mind, and soul. Not just one part. Emotional infidelity is an affair of the heart and a betrayel of the marriage vows.

I believe that the OP describes a spouse who has clearly crossed the emotional barrier and is well into what the Church defines as adulterous.

Confide in him
Plan for their future
Tell him she loves him and can’t wait to start their new life together
Accepts flowers, jewelry (heart pendant) and gifts from him
Spend holidays, such as Christmas, out of town and overnight with him
Gives him her emotional fidelity

I agree with Christopher West’s definition of a sacramental marriage. It is possible though…to have this ideal sacramental marriage and maintain positive emotional fidelity in a man - man, woman - woman, man - woman relationship. How narrow would our lives be if we were 100% emotionally exclusive to our spouses?

 

[cecilia97]

ktp,

I have a friendship that some may call an emotional affair. I get nervous about it at times because I don’t have any single friends that I am as close to as I am to this person. I often wonder if I would know if we crossed the line from friendship to an emotional affair.

Perhaps you can tell me some things that I should look out for? This person is my best friend, they don’t know that. I am afraid that if I told them they would back away.

I am single - divorced with kids. They are married. I don’t think that their marriage is a valid marriage in the eyes of the church.

I would truly appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, because I don’t want to have my friend (or myself) feeling that our relationship is more than it is.

Thanks
Terry

IMO, having been on the wife side, if your friend comes to you with problems instead of his spouse, it’s an affair. If he routinely vents to you ABOUT his spouse instead of taking the issues to her so they can be resolved, it’s a serious problem for him and his marriage.

If the spouse doesn’t know about your relationship, or about how much time you send together, definately an affair, I’m sorry to say.

In my case, my husband stopped all physical contact with me, and instead went to his friend’s house and gave her hugs and “back rubs”. THAT is WAY over the line and into the danger zone.

c

 

[BertaSwede]

Yes, affairs of any kind rob the soul of a person. Now, the question and decision remains, what to do about it? What do WE choose to do about it all? I think God has His plan for it.

My feelings are to swallow it up. For the good and sake of the family. These are my feelings anyway, and I believe all our families deserve for ALL of us persons to do just this. I hope you all choose to do this, as I choose the same.

Jesus Loves You Friends on This Posts~~

 

[cecilia97]

Yes, affairs of any kind rob the soul of a person. Now, the question and decision remains, what to do about it? What do WE choose to do about it all? I think God has His plan for it.

My feelings are to swallow it up. For the good and sake of the family. These are my feelings anyway, and I believe all our families deserve for ALL of us persons to do just this. I hope you all choose to do this, as I choose the same.

Jesus Loves You Friends on This Posts~~

While I appreciate the Christian tone of self-sacrifice in your post, if I had “swallowed up” any more years of what I was given by my spouse, I would have quickly made my end in an asylum. The lying and treatment I recieved from my spouse as he tried to justify his actions and hide them from me was boardering on emotional abuse. It sounds from this thread that he was not unique.

I’m not trying to get pity for the situation I dealt with. I’m trying to say that a one-size-fits-all solution will not work for every situation. I’m afraid someone in a similar situation as mine will read your post and feel obligated to stay in a rapidly deteriorating relationship that MIGHT turn dangerous for their health. The Church DOES NOT ask spouses to stay in marriages that are bad for their wellbeing…valid or not. Single life may be the better calling. It certainly is for me.

Remember, too, that any affair that turns physical puts ALL parties at risk for life-threatening STDs. I’ll have to be tested annually for several nasty things from now on, even though my former spouse has been my only sexual partner.

c

 

[ktp]

ktp,

I have a friendship that some may call an emotional affair. I get nervous about it at times because I don’t have any single friends that I am as close to as I am to this person. I often wonder if I would know if we crossed the line from friendship to an emotional affair.

Perhaps you can tell me some things that I should look out for? This person is my best friend, they don’t know that. I am afraid that if I told them they would back away.

I am single - divorced with kids. They are married. I don’t think that their marriage is a valid marriage in the eyes of the church.

I would truly appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, because I don’t want to have my friend (or myself) feeling that our relationship is more than it is.

Thanks
Terry

Cecilia summed it up wonderfully:

IMO, having been on the wife side, if your friend comes to you with problems instead of his spouse, it’s an affair. If he routinely vents to you ABOUT his spouse instead of taking the issues to her so they can be resolved, it’s a serious problem for him and his marriage.

If the spouse doesn’t know about your relationship, or about how much time you send together, definately an affair, I’m sorry to say.

Secrecy and lies are a HUGE one. If your friend is being at all secretive with their spouse about you, things need to get straightened out. Have you met the spouse? Have you said or done anything you wouldn’t say or do with the spouse present? Would you send the e-mails you send your friend to a joint account? Some of my big clues, despite all my husband’s denial, are the fact that he has been very secretive, and is still trying to convince me that you can ‘accidentally’ or inadvertently hide a friend for thirteen years. Right. Got a bridge in Brooklyn for me to buy? Or the fact that with both this woman and one other, I was more than willing to be part of the friendship. I told him just re-direct them to our joint account. Funny, but he chose to end contact completely rather than have any contact where I could see it. That’s not a friend. That’s a girlfriend. And I don’t care if he never took her clothes off. When the spouse isn’t allowed in, it’s more than a friend.

You might want to look at the infidelity forum at Loveshack to see what constitutes emotional infidelity, and how it has affected the spouses and marriages.

 

[homewardangel]

If your friend is being at all secretive with their spouse about you, things need to get straightened out. Have you met the spouse? Have you said or done anything you wouldn’t say or do with the spouse present? Would you send the e-mails you send your friend to a joint account?

First of all I wouldn’t know if they are being secretive about our talks, and for all I know the spouse could be reading my emails. I don’t know if they would be keeping it a secret or if it would even seem like something that would matter enough to keep a secret. (if I told my ex that I talked with someone else about stuff I would’ve either gotten laughed at or yelled at - sometimes things are kept from others just because they can’t understand or appreciate it)

Yes I have met the spouse. But I would never have the type of relationship with the spouse that I have with them. They are just different people with different interests and thoughts. The spouse is not Catholic, not even baptized so there would not be a discussion possible with them about adoration, prayer, etc…In the last email I was left to ponder about being a servant like Jesus and what type of respect that would give (or not give) a person.

I don’t know whether I would say things to them if their spouse was present - only because of the lack of understanding the spouse has. If I were to strike up a discussion with the two of them about adoration or the eucharist I think the discussion would be thrown off topic by the spouse…I don’t think it would happen so I wouldn’t even start one.

Terry

 

[gmarie21]

First of all I wouldn’t know if they are being secretive about our talks, and for all I know the spouse could be reading my emails. I don’t know if they would be keeping it a secret or if it would even seem like something that would matter enough to keep a secret. (if I told my ex that I talked with someone else about stuff I would’ve either gotten laughed at or yelled at - sometimes things are kept from others just because they can’t understand or appreciate it)

Yes I have met the spouse. But I would never have the type of relationship with the spouse that I have with them. They are just different people with different interests and thoughts. The spouse is not Catholic, not even baptized so there would not be a discussion possible with them about adoration, prayer, etc…In the last email I was left to ponder about being a servant like Jesus and what type of respect that would give (or not give) a person.

I don’t know whether I would say things to them if their spouse was present - only because of the lack of understanding the spouse has. If I were to strike up a discussion with the two of them about adoration or the eucharist I think the discussion would be thrown off topic by the spouse…I don’t think it would happen so I wouldn’t even start one.

Terry

You’re on the slippery slope.

 

[homewardangel]

PS - thanks I enjoy this discussion and making me think about things differently:thumbsup:

Terry